Irrefutable proof in the existance of God

[Thoth-Amon]

The irrefutable proof is that no one can yet explain how the first cell came into being, the infinity of the universe, how all the molecules, atoms, quarks, cells, neurons were arranged to create animals, humans, plnts, etc.

Heidi, your argument seems to be that, "we don't understand how it could be", so it must have been done by God. I assure you that this is fallacious reasoning.

If you want to talk about "theistic proofs", I recommend that you try and learn a little about basic logic.

I agree with you that it is fallacious reasoning. However I myself while not a Christian see such things as evidence for a creator. What these things do NOT prove however is who that creator is, i.e. even if the theistic proofs are valid they do not prove that Christianity is true as numerous ideologies can point to these same things as proof for the existence of their god. What Christians have to do is show how Christianity is undeniably true. I think the only attempts I've seen at this are the argument for the ressurection of Christ and fulfilled bible prophecies. Both of which I feel are very weak arguments. Simply "proving" that God exists does not prove that Christianity is the one true religion. Interestingly enough Christians often point to the standard theistic proofs, i.e. the argument from design or the first cause argument to back up their beliefs while ignoring the scientific data that contradicts the bible such evidence for the age of the earth, the origins of man, etc.

 

[Heidi]

The irrefutable proof is that no one can yet explain how the first cell came into being, the infinity of the universe, how all the molecules, atoms, quarks, cells, neurons were arranged to create animals, humans, plnts, etc.

Heidi, your argument seems to be that, "we don't understand how it could be", so it must have been done by God. I assure you that this is fallacious reasoning.

If you want to talk about "theistic proofs", I recommend that you try and learn a little about basic logic.

And after supposedly "millions" of years that man has been on earth, he still hasn't figured these things out yet? So what gives you any indication that he will be able to? :o And more importantly, why does he think he should be able to...unless of course he believes in his own omniscience. ;-)

 

[BradtheImpaler]

And after supposedly "millions" of years that man has been on earth, he still hasn't figured these things out yet? So what gives you any indication that he will be able to? :o And more importantly, why does he think he should be able to...unless of course he believes in his own omniscience. ;-)

This statement is a classic example of the self - loathing which religion finds it's roots in. First you chide mankind for not having figured everything out yet, then you accuse us of being egotistical for even trying. Well, damned if we do, damned if we don't, eh?. (which is literally the contention of the scriptures, that we are damned to begin with) Christianity, and religion in general, is anti-progress. It is anti-civilization. And, true to form, it's hypocritical adherents rail away at the labor and inventiveness of man while they themselves marinate in every comfort and modern convenience made possible by invention.

 

[Vic C.]

Brad,

Pelase don't lump all Christ-followers into your notion of Christianity and also try not to lump all of Christianity into worldly religious confines.

Thanks,
Vic

 

[Thoth-Amon]

And after supposedly "millions" of years that man has been on earth, he still hasn't figured these things out yet? So what gives you any indication that he will be able to? :o And more importantly, why does he think he should be able to...unless of course he believes in his own omniscience. ;-)[/quote]

Well let's see, considering that there is no evidence of abstract thinking in man's history until about 30-40 thousand years ago, we can hardly blame our ancestors for not figuring out all of the mysteries of our existence and the universe. And also considering that up until 10 thousand years ago man's primary activity was (and I suppose still is) just trying to survive.

 

[Heidi]

And after supposedly "millions" of years that man has been on earth, he still hasn't figured these things out yet? So what gives you any indication that he will be able to? :o And more importantly, why does he think he should be able to...unless of course he believes in his own omniscience. ;-)

This statement is a classic example of the self - loathing which religion finds it's roots in. First you chide mankind for not having figured everything out yet, then you accuse us of being egotistical for even trying. Well, damned if we do, damned if we don't, eh?. (which is literally the contention of the scriptures, that we are damned to begin with) Christianity, and religion in general, is anti-progress. It is anti-civilization. And, true to form, it's hypocritical adherents rail away at the labor and inventiveness of man while they themselves marinate in every comfort and modern convenience made possible by invention.

All you have to do is read God's word to find out the truth insteaad of thinking you know better than God what the truth is. How is thinking you know better than God not the epitome of arrogance? :o

 

[BradtheImpaler]

All you have to do is read God's word to find out the truth insteaad of thinking you know better than God what the truth is. How is thinking you know better than God not the epitome of arrogance? :o

It is arrogant on your part to assume that I should be take for granted that the bible is "God's Word" like you do. You've taken a sizeable leap of faith and expect that everyone else must believe that you and like-minded believers have established what the truth is. That is arrogant.