Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

[WIP]

I pointed out in my first post in this thread that baptism is a public declaration of faith in Christ

Where does scripture say this?

Since you pointed it out, perhaps you could provide that answer as it supports your assertion?

 

[donadams]

Since you pointed it out, perhaps you could provide that answer as it supports your assertion?

Sorry i was quoting carryourname

 

[Hopeful 2]

Did Jesus exempt babies in there?

In where ?

Or anywhere else? No one means no one.

What verses are you referring to ?

In your logic, abortionists and other child killers should be saints since they prevented "non-sinning babies" from sinning by sending them straight to heaven - instead of depriving them the opportunity of knowing Jesus for real salvation.

The abortionists are still murderers, so unless they repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, will be raised to eternal damnation.

Because there is none. A baby is born but not born again.

If babies are sinners, then you must be aware of what sin they committed ?
What was it ?

Then baptism is NOT neceessary for salvation.

As baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins, one who has committed no sins does not need baptism in Jesus' name's remission.

Sin is in human nature, and you don't understand either.

Aren't you glad the reborn have a divine nature after their rebirth from God's seed ?

I but exposed a logical fallacy in your theory which you can't skirt around.

Until you can tell me what sins a baby can commit, you have exposed nothing.
Baptism is for the remission of past sins.
Those who were never separated from God by their sins have no sin to remit.

Back to the OP...
Baptism is necessary for salvation, if one commits a sin.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Maybe this should be given its own thread but something caught my attention as I was studying the topic of baptism in Scriptures.
Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-4 NKJV

That's baptism using water in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
It also provides for the end of the old man and raising of the new man with Christ from Jesus' grave. (v.4)

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:26-27 NKJV

Again, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins. (Rom 6:3)

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Colossians 2:11-12 NKJV

Again, water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.

Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:15-16 NKJV

Initially, the verses refer to John's water baptism unto repentance...for the remission of sins. (Luke 3:3)
It ends with the promise of the gift of the Holy Ghost/baptism of the Spirit; and the fires of the end of the world

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, which, He said, “You have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:4-5 NKJV

That is again the gift of the Holy Ghost, from Acts 2:38.
It is also called the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I may not know precisely what this means but as can be seen, baptism is much more than just an outward thing and more than just a work we do. We are baptized into Christ, into His death and resurrection, with the Holy Spirit,... Jesus, John, Peter, Phillip, and Paul all instructed that it be done so it would seem to be the right thing to do.

Who is Phillip ?

 

[WIP]

Who is Phillip ?

Okay, pick on spelling. The apostle Philip.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Where does scripture say this?

Take the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius the centurion for example, the first Jewish and gentile converts, and both heard the gospel, believed in Jesus, then got baptized.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

In where ?

"No one goes to the father except through me."

What verses are you referring to ?

Any verse that says babies go straight to heaven. Show me.

The abortionists are still murderers, so unless they repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, will be raised to eternal damnation.

But why murder of the young is more egregious and heinous? Why are such murderers more hated than other killers?

If babies are sinners, then you must be aware of what sin they committed ?
What was it ?

Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath.

As baptism in Jesus' name is for the remission of sins, one who has committed no sins does not need baptism in Jesus' name's remission.

Then baptism is not necessary.

Aren't you glad the reborn have a divine nature after their rebirth from God's seed ?

Then how do babies not have such a divine nature since they are born "sinless" like Jesus, according to you?

Until you can tell me what sins a baby can commit, you have exposed nothing.
Baptism is for the remission of past sins.
Those who were never separated from God by their sins have no sin to remit.

Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath.

Back to the OP...
Baptism is necessary for salvation, if one commits a sin.

Neither the OP nor the Scripture has this caveat "if", you made it up.

 

[Corinth77777]

Maybe this should be given its own thread but something caught my attention as I was studying the topic of baptism in Scriptures.

Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 6:3-4 NKJV

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Galatians 3:26-27 NKJV

In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Colossians 2:11-12 NKJV

Now as the people were in expectation, and all reasoned in their hearts about John, whether he was the Christ or not, John answered, saying to all, “I indeed baptize you with water; but One mightier than I is coming, whose sandal strap I am not worthy to loose. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Luke 3:15-16 NKJV

And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, which, He said, “You have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.”
Acts 1:4-5 NKJV

I may not know precisely what this means but as can be seen, baptism is much more than just an outward thing and more than just a work we do. We are baptized into Christ, into His death and resurrection, with the Holy Spirit,... Jesus, John, Peter, Phillip, and Paul all instructed that it be done so it would seem to be the right thing to do.

Share your thoughts

 

[donadams]

Take the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius the centurion for example, the first Jewish and gentile converts, and both heard the gospel, believed in Jesus, then got baptized.

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism yes
But i never says a public profession

 

[Hopeful 2]

"No one goes to the father except through me."

God exempts all who have not committed an offense contrary to His will.

Any verse that says babies go straight to heaven. Show me.

No baby has offended God.

But why (are) murder of the young more egregious and heinous? Why are such murderers more hated than other killers?

I don't know that they are.

Envy, gluttony, greed, lust, pride, sloth, wrath.

Those are sins babies commit ?

Then baptism is not necessary.

As water baptism is for the remission of past sins, baby baptism is not necessary.

Then how do babies not have such a divine nature since they are born "sinless" like Jesus, according to you?

Who says they don't ?

Neither the OP nor the Scripture has this caveat "if", you made it up.

I had to add it, to separate sinners from nonsinners.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of a sinner's past sins.
Babies have committed no past sins.

 

[Hopeful 2]

Okay, pick on spelling. The apostle Philip.

I'm a Philip, so I notice those things.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Mk 16:16 faith & baptism yes
But i never says a public profession

But that is a historical fact. You can hire a nobody and give you a dunk in a tub, or you can dunk yourself in a tub the next time you take a bath, does that count as a legitimate baptism that supposedly signs your ticket to heaven?

 

[My Rock]

Take the Ethiopian eunuch and Cornelius the centurion for example, the first Jewish and gentile converts, and both heard the gospel, believed in Jesus, then got baptized.

Belief is not Salvation. Some in my family say they believe in God, but most certainly do not show the Fruit of the Spirit at all. So I say again belief is not Salvation.

 

[Corinth77777]

Belief is not Salvation. Some in my family say they believe in God, but most certainly do not show the Fruit of the Spirit at all. So I say again belief is not Salvation.

Believe with intention to follow

Abraham believed God and was credited as righteous ; don't quote me read it for yourself when you have time.

Belief is not salvation. However one believes unto righteousness.

most of the time Rock people dont say everything they can mean, or everything they can not mean by something they are presenting.

Belief in God with the intention to follow- sounds more towards salvation.

It's the motive of the heart...and Man look at the outter appearance but God looks at the heart.

Continually noting that: The things seen are temporary but the things unseen are eternal.

 

[WIP]

Share your thoughts

I was mostly thinking out loud so-to-speak. I have to admit that baptism is really a mystery to me and I can't fully explain it, but from the texts I quoted I noticed the phrases I bold typed. Being baptized into Christ or into His death or with a circumcision not of hands or with the Holy Spirit and so forth indicates there is much more going on than getting wet, performing a rutual, or making a public declaration.

In the Lutheran church, which I associate with, we believe baptism includes the water and the Word and is a sacrament commanded by God. "It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare." (Martin Luther's Small Catechism)

Since God commands it and Jesus demanded it of Himself, I will not stand opposed.

 

[brightfame52]

Believe with intention to follow

Abraham believed God and was credited as righteous ; don't quote me read it for yourself when you have time.

Belief is not salvation. However one believes unto righteousness.

most of the time Rock people dont say everything they can mean, or everything they can not mean by something they are presenting.

Belief in God with the intention to follow- sounds more towards salvation.

It's the motive of the heart...and Man look at the outter appearance but God looks at the heart.

Continually noting that: The things seen are temporary but the things unseen are eternal.

Abrahams believing wasnt the cause of His Righteousness nor his righteousness before God, yet it was evidence that he ws already a righteous man, his believing meant God already had counted him righteous, and that by Christ his coming seed.

 

[Corinth77777]

:

Taking one passage at a time


In order to see
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

..........
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
.......
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
.........
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
.................................................................


What do I get from all these passages:

That there were many baptisms and now there is one. One is in the Spirit

So if all the rest (baptisms)lead you to the one (spiritual)
Or if you get to the one (spiritual)having taken on the symbol that Identifies you with a particular teaching, repentance for example Or do what the symbol required that leads to Christ, then sense the goal is met then the purpose of the baptisms would have been fulfilled.

The one baptism in 1 Peter, I believe is Spiritual.
IT IS DONE TO US BUT FOR OTHER. My question is when was He put to death in that passage? Note: my questions are for studying.
For it make me think of, "slain before the foundation of the world."

For look, (and I'm going off my head so don't quote me,) put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit He went and spoke to the souls in prison. Etc

He was made alive where? In the Spirit ( in God)
And it is alive in the Spirit/God where He was able to set captives free.

The answer from God for a clear conscience sounds more like Faith; GOD

Recall: by grace are ye saved through faith/ faithfulness or one said " the faith" and this is not of ourselves but a gift from God.

It doesn't sound like the faith is our faith but once we have it we can say we possess it.

The answer from God for a clear conscienc by the resurrection of Jesus is " Our Faith" and our faith is in God through Jesus Christ. ( living faith)

Remember this is a study for me: I like trying things on. I wanted to see if anyone agreed with that thought and googled that position. This is what I found:

The faith is a clear conscience before God" is a concept that appears in the Bible, and it means to have a clear conscience while holding onto the Christian faith:

• Timothy 3:9Deacons should hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience, meaning their consciences should not accuse them of lying when they profess their faith.
  
  
• 1 Timothy 1:19Paul tells Timothy to "cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear". He warns that those who deliberately violate their consciences risk having their faith "shipwrecked".
• Hebrews 9:14When Jesus Christ is received as Lord and Savior, His blood purifies consciences from sinful deeds.
  
  
• Hebrews 10:22
  [Christ's blood "sprinkles" guilty consciences to make them clean.

• So putting this part together Our faith gives us a clear conscience before God, Our faith is God. And maybe even the recognition that Jesus is God who came in the flesh. So heaven an earth declair His Glory. From earth to heaven. So it sounds like His kingdom is shown by an earthly testimony, by water.

• But the testimony of earth to heaven can also be shown through the fact we are of the earth and came from the dust of the ground. And when earth declairs God's glory its because God lives in you through the Spirit of Christ.

• And isn't that what outward Baptism really testifies to? For look at Jesus's own water baptism.

• God declairs His Glory. Isnt Jesus the Glory of God?

• These are some thoughts that Im thinking out loud.....everything should be tested by the word.. So let's test

 

[Corinth77777]

I was mostly thinking out loud so-to-speak. I have to admit that baptism is really a mystery to me and I can't fully explain it, but from the texts I quoted I noticed the phrases I bold typed. Being baptized into Christ or into His death or with a circumcision not of hands or with the Holy Spirit and so forth indicates there is much more going on than getting wet, performing a rutual, or making a public declaration.

In the Lutheran church, which I associate with, we believe baptism includes the water and the Word and is a sacrament commanded by God. "It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare." (Martin Luther's Small Catechism)

Since God commands it and Jesus demanded it of Himself, I will not stand opposed.

Got you! But where Does Jesus command water baptism in water?

 

[Corinth77777]

Abrahams believing wasnt the cause of His Righteousness nor his righteousness before God, yet it was evidence that he ws already a righteous man, his believing meant God already had counted him righteous, and that by Christ his coming seed.

You said a lot, and it sound interesting but I can't see the connections. Would you mind elaborating?

 

[Corinth77777]

You said a lot, and it sound interesting but I cant see the connections. Would you mind elaborating

Abraham believed God for a son...right? And his faith in God was credited as righteous...