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Is Baptism necessary for Salvation?

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WIP said:
I was mostly thinking out loud so-to-speak. I have to admit that baptism is really a mystery to me and I can't fully explain it, but from the texts I quoted I noticed the phrases I bold typed. Being baptized into Christ or into His death or with a circumcision not of hands or with the Holy Spirit and so forth indicates there is much more going on than getting wet, performing a rutual, or making a public declaration.

In the Lutheran church, which I associate with, we believe baptism includes the water and the Word and is a sacrament commanded by God. "It works forgiveness of sins, rescues from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare." (Martin Luther's Small Catechism)

Since God commands it and Jesus demanded it of Himself, I will not stand opposed.
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Here's the thing I have an issue with...rather one believes God instructed water Baptism or not.

If You did it and nothing happened to you then maybe one needs more knowledge on it.
God is real, and Real life comes from God.
My issue is in accepting everything people say to us without backing it up with scripture in correct context...

In many of the denominations people accept the minister's teaching without looking to see if what is said is true. Hence, as one can grow up in a family where a man has 8 wives. Children grow up never seeing out from how they were raised. As a matter of fact it's the norm to them. Does a conscience convict one without the knowledge of any other known family?

That's why my first question was where does He instruct water Baptism.

Your statement is like one who says its better to believe there is a God then not a God. But doesn't know why they should ....wish I had a better example. But in the end we all are growing in knowledge and understanding.

I would say that some things we take on faith..but even having faith knowledge seems to be. Sometimes it's the correct knowledge and sometimes it's not. Thats why we should be like those Bereans.
 
brightfame52 said:
Abrahams believing wasnt the cause of His Righteousness nor his righteousness before God, yet it was evidence that he ws already a righteous man, his believing meant God already had counted him righteous, and that by Christ his coming seed.
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So i think i get what you might be saying a little.
His consciene was clear before God which made Him righteous before God. Therefore Jesus would come through The seed of Abraham.
But it wasn't that He just believed God, it would be what he believed God for.
 
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Carry_Your_Name said:
But that is a historical fact. You can hire a nobody and give you a dunk in a tub, or you can dunk yourself in a tub the next time you take a bath, does that count as a legitimate baptism that supposedly signs your ticket to heaven?
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Baptism is not a dunking or a bath
It is a complete ritual
Proper intention:
Proper form: the words
Proper matter: pure water
Thks
 
Hopeful 2 said:
God exempts all who have not committed an offense contrary to His will.

No baby has offended God.

I don't know that they are.

Those are sins babies commit ?

As water baptism is for the remission of past sins, baby baptism is not necessary.

Who says they don't ?

I had to add it, to separate sinners from nonsinners.
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ is for the remission of a sinner's past sins.
Babies have committed no past sins.
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Infants also are devoid of grace, and cannot enter the kingdom Jn 3:5 so they need the grace of Baptism
Thks
 
My Rock said:
Belief is not Salvation. Some in my family say they believe in God, but most certainly do not show the Fruit of the Spirit at all. So I say again belief is not Salvation.
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Even the devils believe but are not saved
Faith alone reduces Christ to a mere doctrine
Thks
 
Corinth77777 said:
:

Taking one passage at a time


In order to see
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

..........
Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
.......
And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.

43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,

47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.
.........
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.

16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
.................................................................


What do I get from all these passages:

That there were many baptisms and now there is one. One is in the Spirit

So if all the rest (baptisms)lead you to the one (spiritual)
Or if you get to the one (spiritual)having taken on the symbol that Identifies you with a particular teaching, repentance for example Or do what the symbol required that leads to Christ, then 🤔 sense the goal is met then the purpose of the baptisms would have been fulfilled.

The one baptism in 1 Peter, I believe is Spiritual.
IT IS DONE TO US BUT FOR OTHER. My question is when was He put to death in that passage? Note: my questions are for studying.
For it make me think of, "slain before the foundation of the world."

For look, (and I'm going off my head so don't quote me,) put to death in the flesh but made alive in the Spirit He went and spoke to the souls in prison. Etc

He was made alive where? In the Spirit ( in God)
And it is alive in the Spirit/God where He was able to set captives free.

The answer from God for a clear conscience sounds more like Faith; GOD

Recall: by grace are ye saved through faith/ faithfulness or one said " the faith" and this is not of ourselves but a gift from God.

It doesn't sound like the faith is our faith but once we have it we can say we possess it.

The answer from God for a clear conscienc by the resurrection of Jesus is " Our Faith" and our faith is in God through Jesus Christ. ( living faith)

Remember this is a study for me: I like trying things on. I wanted to see if anyone agreed with that thought and googled that position. This is what I found:

The faith is a clear conscience before God" is a concept that appears in the Bible, and it means to have a clear conscience while holding onto the Christian faith:

  • Timothy 3:9Deacons should hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience, meaning their consciences should not accuse them of lying when they profess their faith.

  • 1 Timothy 1:19Paul tells Timothy to "cling to your faith in Christ, and keep your conscience clear". He warns that those who deliberately violate their consciences risk having their faith "shipwrecked".
  • Hebrews 9:14When Jesus Christ is received as Lord and Savior, His blood purifies consciences from sinful deeds.

  • Hebrews 10:22
    [Christ's blood "sprinkles" guilty consciences to make them clean.



  • So putting this part together Our faith gives us a clear conscience before God, Our faith is God. And maybe even the recognition that Jesus is God who came in the flesh. So heaven an earth declair His Glory. From earth to heaven. So it sounds like His kingdom is shown by an earthly testimony, by water.


  • But the testimony of earth to heaven can also be shown through the fact we are of the earth and came from the dust of the ground. And when earth declairs God's glory its because God lives in you through the Spirit of Christ.


  • And isn't that what outward Baptism really testifies to? For look at Jesus's own water baptism.

  • God declairs His Glory. Isnt Jesus the Glory of God?

  • These are some thoughts that Im thinking out loud.....everything should be tested by the word.. So let's test
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Notes
Byzantine text the notes in net.bible: say maybe scribes meant it to be "the faith"

More on " the faith"

Gift of God and Works in Ephesians 2-# 1

Bible FAQ about Ephesians 2:8-10; the gift of God and works; the grace is a gift.
biblestudylessons.net

My interest in this is something said at the very bottom...not the whole article

As: if you continue "in the faith"

Part of the faith I would say is our testimony

Water baptism seems to be a testimony to the world of God's kingdom at hand.
 
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Corinth77777 said:
So i think i get what you might be saying a little.
His consciene was clear before God which made Him righteous before God. Therefore Jesus would come through The seed of Abraham.
But it wasn't that He just believed God, it would be what he believed God for.
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Abraham believed God in regards to the his seed [Christ] that would come and establish righteousness, justification, and yes the object of Abes Faith Christ, is his righteousness
 
brightfame52 said:
I did comment after all
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Yes you did..but this one here is sensitive and has feeling...But I do need to try to ignore folks and just learn what I can. But honestly I believe my sister is correct when she says people do not care what you have to say until they know how much you care.

Maybe you perceived my question a certain way..I don't know...
 
donadams said:
Infants also are devoid of grace, and cannot enter the kingdom Jn 3:5 so they need the grace of Baptism
Thks
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How does anyone know that God hasn't allowed that baby to be born with grace ?
He caused its life and birth...isn't that enough proof of grace for you ?
You treat grace like it is some kind of commodity, to be bought and sold.
 
Corinth77777 said:
Well Mr. hope
I was thinking about the so called, " great commission"
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As water baptism was the only one known of during Jesus time here, there was no need to specify "water" baptism to anyone.
Several bible verses speak of John the Baptist using the Jordan River's water to baptize.
The Ethiopian eunuch story has water being used to baptize.
Cornelius' household has water baptism mentioned.
I can't understand how anyone can see any baptism done by man without water being used ?
 
Hopeful 2 said:
As water baptism was the only one known of during Jesus time here, there was no need to specify "water" baptism to anyone.
Several bible verses speak of John the Baptist using the Jordan River's water to baptize.
The Ethiopian eunuch story has water being used to baptize.
Cornelius' household has water baptism mentioned.
I can't understand how anyone can see any baptism done by man without water being used ?
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Not the point that water wasn't or couldn't have been used...point is the exercise of faith..

You make so much of it that it more sounds like a law then what is done out of God's love for us.
 
Corinth77777 said:
Not the point that water wasn't or couldn't have been used...point is the exercise of faith..
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Have faith that baptism does what it was intended to do.
It remits past sin. (Acts 2:38, 22:16)
It is the means of the destruction of the old man. (Rom 6:6)
It is the circumcision done without hands that puts of the body of the sins of the flesh. (Col 2:11-13)
Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins, is the means of our rebirth. (Col 2:13)
Corinth77777 said:
You make so much of it that it more sounds like a law then what is done out of God's love for us.
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Water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins is the "means to an end".
That "end", is salvation on the day of judgement.
Without faith, and repentance from sin, it is just a swim.
 
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