Is baptism required for salvation?

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Sacred scripture teaches that many of the same things apply to the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19
acts 16:17


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Salve Regina!
 
matt 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
 
donadams said:
more

Sacred scripture teaches that many of the same things apply to the apostolic church as it does Christ!

Light of the world: Jn 8:12 / Matt 5:14
Hear: Matt 17:5 acts 3:22 / Matt 18:17
Authority: Matt 28:17 / Jn 20:21
Reconciliation: 2 cor 5:19 / 2 cor 5:18
Forgive sins: Lk 5:20 / Jn 20:23

Truth: Jn 14:6 / 1 Tim 3:15

Jesus Christ and His church are one acts 9:4 eph 5:32 and the only means of salvation! Matt 28:19
acts 16:17


Jesus Christ extends his mission, power, and authority to His church of His apostles! The apostles have the same mission, ministry, power, and authority as Christ! Jn 20:21 as the father sent me, so I send you!

Even His judging!
Matt 19:28 and 1 cor 6:2
His teaching authority!
Matt 28:19 and Jn 20:21
His power to forgive sins!
Jn 20:23
Jn 17:22 / rom 2:10 / 1 pet 1:7 Christ shares His glory with His saints!
His being the light of the world!
Matt 5:14
Must hear church Matt 18:18
His ministry of reconciliation!
2 cor 5:18
His authority in governing the church and administering the kingdom!
Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18 Jn 21:17
Lk 22:29
Apart from me you can do nothing. Jn 15:5
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles!
So the church is subject to Christ!
Eph 5:24
Christ shares His glory! 2 thes 1:10 rev 12:1

The pillar and foundation of TRUTH!
1 Tim 3:15

The TWO EDGE SWORD!
To proclaim the truth! Matt 28:19
To condemn error! 1 cor 16:22

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church for the salvation of all men! (Jn 1:16-17) Christ is the truth! (Jn 14:6) Christ and his church are one!
(Acts 9;4 Jn 15:1 eph 5:32)
The church is the pillar of truth
(1 Tim 3:15) that must teach all men (Matt 28:19) without error guided by the Holy Spirit
(Jn 16:13) Thru the grace of God in the sanctification of souls applied in the seven sacraments!

Salve Regina!
Click to expand...

Brother, use scripture if you want to be taken seriously.

A page full of scripture references with your personal commentary, and Catholic words that don’t appear in scripture is just a mixture of your own concoction.
 
JLB said:
Brother, use scripture if you want to be taken seriously.

A page full of scripture references with your personal commentary, and Catholic words that don’t appear in scripture is just a mixture of your own concoction.
Click to expand...
Yes, scripture can be quoted to justify anything, including tyranny, abortion, genocide and socialism. It is the sound doctrines and comprehensive biblical narrative that make the difference.
 
donadams said:
how?
Click to expand...
How?

How does God place me into Christ?

Since when do we question God?

He did not do it by placing me in water. He placed me in his death. His burial his body and Christ

Paul calls it a spiritual circumcision done without hands by the spirit

Ie holy spirit baptism
 
Eternally-grateful said:
How?

How does God place me into Christ?

Since when do we question God?

He did not do it by placing me in water. He placed me in his death. His burial his body and Christ

Paul calls it a spiritual circumcision done without hands by the spirit

Ie holy spirit baptism
Click to expand...
not christian or biblical

we cannot enter Jn 3:5

an entrance must be administered unto us 2 pet 1:11

the apostles administer this grace in baptism 2 cor 8:19
Jn 3:22
thks
 
Believe and be Baptized (is baptism necessary?)

Baptism represents three things in the New Testament in regard to believers:

  1. the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the saved are joined in union with Christ and is in Christ,
  2. Water baptism taking place before Christ’s resurrection for repentance and recognition of the Messiah
  3. Water baptism taking place after Christ’s resurrection in recognition of Christ’s death and resurrection

John distinguishes the first two baptisms when he said: Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance (2), but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (1) and fire. So, the question naturally arises when it is asserted that one must “believe and be baptized”, whether a spiritual or ritual baptism is indicated. For example: Mark 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized (3) will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. If the verse referred to spiritual baptism, then there is no difficulty understanding the verse and it can dismissed because ALL Christians are baptized in the Spirit when they first believe.
  • The purpose of the book of John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Eternal life in Christ is the purpose of the book, yet baptism is never mentioned. It is impossible to contend that God’s purpose of the book is incomplete.
  • to claim ritual/water baptism is required in addition to faith in Christ is to suggest that the 150 passages in which believing or faith alone appears are incomplete and to the extent misleading. To put all one’s confidence upon one verse and to be uninfluenced by the overwhelming body of Scripture which contradicts that interpretation stretches credibility.
  • There is no scriptural warrant in general for the teaching of the Bible for identifying a rite with salvation; and one cannot assume permission to do so.
  • Ritual Baptism causes the need for exceptions for which no provisions in scripture can be found. Some people cannot be immersed in water due to illness, disability, advanced age, etc … not that this proves water baptism is needed for salvation; rather, it proves people in this situation cannot be saved (death bed confessions, etc.)
  • Spiritual baptism is universally present in every case of salvation. Confusion can exist when baptism is found in the bible as to whether it is Baptism of the Spirit or of water
  • Whether water baptism is by immersion or not is not clear; therefore, the necessity of one or the other is unclear.
  • Acts 10:44-48 … here we have Cornelius and family receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, both sign of salvation. Yet, it is after this that Cornelius is baptized suggesting baptism is not necessary for salvation
  • if baptism is the key difference between eternal life with God or eternal life in hell why does it ONLY show up in four places in the New Testament “as a condition of salvation?”
 
Explanation of Verses mentioning Baptism and Salvation
  • “baptism” is not mentioned when the Mark 16:16 is repeated in the negative form. There is no evidence in the passage to show that the baptism referred to in Mark 16 is ritual (with water), rather than by the Spirit.
  • Mark 16:9-20 are not included in some older manuscripts so their inclusion in scripture is questionable. Mark 16:16 Whoever believes [Human requirement per the efficacious call of the Spirit] and is baptized [divine miracle] will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. Stated from the negative side baptism is omitted as being unnecessary; for he that disbelieves cannot be baptized. If this verse is about water baptism he can be baptized; but if it is the baptism of the Spirit, he cannot.
  • Acts 2:38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Many scholars feel the translation is better rendered as: “Repent, and be baptized every one of you, [believing] upon the name of Jesus Christ into the remissions of sins”.
  • Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip as he preached the good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were being baptized, both men and women. [Belief precedes baptism]
  • Acts 10:44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word [the Holy Spirit only indwells in the saved]. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God [further evidence of salvation]. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people [evidence that these new believers were not baptized; yet they were saved], who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days. Notice in these verses they had already received the Holy Spirit before they were baptized in water.
  • Acts 22:16 And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name.’ The verse, written by joining the imperatives and participle should read: “Arising, be baptized; wash away your sins, calling on the Lord.”
  • 1 Peter 3:21 Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, [the verse is confusing in regard to baptism being ritual or spiritual]
  • Paul before his baptism had received the Lord Jesus and his eyes had been opened and the Holy Ghost given. Acts 9:18. Cornelius and his house also received the Holy Ghost and spake with tongues before their baptism. Acts 10:44-48. The Jailer at Philippi manifestly believed before he was baptized. Baptism without antecedent faith was treated as invalid in certain disciples at Ephesus. Acts 19:1-5. James Boyce – Systematic Theology
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Believe and be Baptized (is baptism necessary?)

Baptism represents three things in the New Testament in regard to believers:

  1. the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the saved are joined in union with Christ and is in Christ,
  2. Water baptism taking place before Christ’s resurrection for repentance and recognition of the Messiah
  3. Water baptism taking place after Christ’s resurrection in recognition of Christ’s death and resurrection

John distinguishes the first two baptisms when he said: Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance (2), but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (1) and fire. So, the question naturally arises when it is asserted that one must “believe and be baptized”, whether a spiritual or ritual baptism is indicated. For example: Mark 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized (3) will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. If the verse referred to spiritual baptism, then there is no difficulty understanding the verse and it can dismissed because ALL Christians are baptized in the Spirit when they first believe.
  • The purpose of the book of John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Eternal life in Christ is the purpose of the book, yet baptism is never mentioned. It is impossible to contend that God’s purpose of the book is incomplete.
  • to claim ritual/water baptism is required in addition to faith in Christ is to suggest that the 150 passages in which believing or faith alone appears are incomplete and to the extent misleading. To put all one’s confidence upon one verse and to be uninfluenced by the overwhelming body of Scripture which contradicts that interpretation stretches credibility.
  • There is no scriptural warrant in general for the teaching of the Bible for identifying a rite with salvation; and one cannot assume permission to do so.
  • Ritual Baptism causes the need for exceptions for which no provisions in scripture can be found. Some people cannot be immersed in water due to illness, disability, advanced age, etc … not that this proves water baptism is needed for salvation; rather, it proves people in this situation cannot be saved (death bed confessions, etc.)
  • Spiritual baptism is universally present in every case of salvation. Confusion can exist when baptism is found in the bible as to whether it is Baptism of the Spirit or of water
  • Whether water baptism is by immersion or not is not clear; therefore, the necessity of one or the other is unclear.
  • Acts 10:44-48 … here we have Cornelius and family receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, both sign of salvation. Yet, it is after this that Cornelius is baptized suggesting baptism is not necessary for salvation
  • if baptism is the key difference between eternal life with God or eternal life in hell why does it ONLY show up in four places in the New Testament “as a condition of salvation?”
Click to expand...
matt 3:11 what is the fire?
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Believe and be Baptized (is baptism necessary?)

Baptism represents three things in the New Testament in regard to believers:

  1. the baptism of the Holy Spirit whereby the saved are joined in union with Christ and is in Christ,
  2. Water baptism taking place before Christ’s resurrection for repentance and recognition of the Messiah
  3. Water baptism taking place after Christ’s resurrection in recognition of Christ’s death and resurrection

John distinguishes the first two baptisms when he said: Matthew 3:11 “I baptize you with water for repentance (2), but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit (1) and fire. So, the question naturally arises when it is asserted that one must “believe and be baptized”, whether a spiritual or ritual baptism is indicated. For example: Mark 16:15 And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation. 16 Whoever believes and is baptized (3) will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned. If the verse referred to spiritual baptism, then there is no difficulty understanding the verse and it can dismissed because ALL Christians are baptized in the Spirit when they first believe.
  • The purpose of the book of John 20:30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name. Eternal life in Christ is the purpose of the book, yet baptism is never mentioned. It is impossible to contend that God’s purpose of the book is incomplete.
  • to claim ritual/water baptism is required in addition to faith in Christ is to suggest that the 150 passages in which believing or faith alone appears are incomplete and to the extent misleading. To put all one’s confidence upon one verse and to be uninfluenced by the overwhelming body of Scripture which contradicts that interpretation stretches credibility.
  • There is no scriptural warrant in general for the teaching of the Bible for identifying a rite with salvation; and one cannot assume permission to do so.
  • Ritual Baptism causes the need for exceptions for which no provisions in scripture can be found. Some people cannot be immersed in water due to illness, disability, advanced age, etc … not that this proves water baptism is needed for salvation; rather, it proves people in this situation cannot be saved (death bed confessions, etc.)
  • Spiritual baptism is universally present in every case of salvation. Confusion can exist when baptism is found in the bible as to whether it is Baptism of the Spirit or of water
  • Whether water baptism is by immersion or not is not clear; therefore, the necessity of one or the other is unclear.
  • Acts 10:44-48 … here we have Cornelius and family receiving the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, both sign of salvation. Yet, it is after this that Cornelius is baptized suggesting baptism is not necessary for salvation
  • if baptism is the key difference between eternal life with God or eternal life in hell why does it ONLY show up in four places in the New Testament “as a condition of salvation?”
Click to expand...
faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Rev 1:5 washed in His blood
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Not called to “faith alone” Phil 1:29

faith being alone "faith alone" is dead! James
 
Eternally-grateful said:
Not catholic. But purely biblical

Jesus told nicodemus and us how to be born again

No water baptism mentioned ir Required
Click to expand...
Jn 3:5 born again by both WATER AND THE SPIRIT!

Jn 3:22 immediately went to the river to preach "faith alone"?

or

to BAPTIZE?
 
Eternally-grateful said:
Hellfire

It shall never be quenched

The barn is heaven

The wheat are us

The chaff are non believera
Click to expand...
we are baptized with hellfire?

mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
 
donadams said:
faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Rev 1:5 washed in His blood
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Not called to “faith alone” Phil 1:29

faith being alone "faith alone" is dead! James
Click to expand...
I was baptized by God

As far as I know you were never even baptized sprinking is not baptism
 
donadams said:
we are baptized with hellfire?

mt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance. but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Click to expand...
I will not be. I was baptized with the HS

The chaff will be baptized in fire

Everyone will be baptized by God. Take your pick which one
 
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