Is baptism required for salvation?

[for_his_glory]

Posting one’s opinion then tagging it with scripture especially Holley debated doctrines is extremely deceptive.

Why not expend the energy in posting the actual scripture itself and make your point from the words of the scripture.


I’m so tired of seeing long posts with paragraphs of copy and paste messages from their favorite “teacher” and just tagging that teachers opinion with a scripture reference.


It’s divisive.

Every one has their own way of learning, whether it is a deceptive teaching or one of truth, it is still up to each of us to take the actual scriptures that are given and study them for our self, praying and asking the Holy Spirit to teach us all truth so we will not be deceived. Even you and I do not always agree with each other, but give that of our understanding.

 

[donadams]

Yes we do. A good example of faith is that of the thief on the cross that at the last moment of his life he believed and had faith in Christ before he died and Jesus told him he would be in paradise that day. It had nothing to do with water baptism, but by having faith alone.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

the thief was before the new covenant heb 9:16-17

eoh 2 refers to redemption

 

[donadams]

Yes we do. A good example of faith is that of the thief on the cross that at the last moment of his life he believed and had faith in Christ before he died and Jesus told him he would be in paradise that day. It had nothing to do with water baptism, but by having faith alone.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

faith alone gains eternal life?

then why is eternal life promised to those who perform heroic acts of sacrifice or charity?

narrow road:

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrowis the way, which leadeth unto life..,


sacrifice family for Christ and the gospel:

mk 10:29-30

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Martyrs

Luke 9:24
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

overcome

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

 

[donadams]

Yes we do. A good example of faith is that of the thief on the cross that at the last moment of his life he believed and had faith in Christ before he died and Jesus told him he would be in paradise that day. It had nothing to do with water baptism, but by having faith alone.

Luke 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

does accepting Christ make us a born again child of God?

 

[donadams]

Yes, we are redeemed by the blood of the Lamb having faith in Jesus.

Can you explain what you mean by "why be praised if not for ourselves".

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

example rev 2:13 the martyr st. Antipas is praised

 

[for_his_glory]

the thief was before the new covenant heb 9:16-17

eoh 2 refers to redemption

What does that have to do with anything. Do you think faith only came after Jesus was taken up to sit at the right hand of the Father?

 

[for_his_glory]

faith alone gains eternal life?

then why is eternal life promised to those who perform heroic acts of sacrifice or charity?

narrow road:

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrowis the way, which leadeth unto life..,


sacrifice family for Christ and the gospel:

mk 10:29-30

29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's,

30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life.

Martyrs

Luke 9:24
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

overcome

rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

Yes, faith alone does give us eternal life with Jesus according to what was written in Luke 23:39-43. Even with the thief's final words he proclaimed his belief and faith in Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

does accepting Christ make us a born again child of God?

Absolutely,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

 

[for_his_glory]

example rev 2:13 the martyr st. Antipas is praised

We are told to make no graven images and bow down to them or pray to them for they are only servants of God like we are.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Psa 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

 

[donadams]

What does that have to do with anything. Do you think faith only came after Jesus was taken up to sit at the right hand of the Father?

faith is always required
baptism after the new covenant came into effect heb 9:16-17

 

[donadams]

Yes, faith alone does give us eternal life with Jesus according to what was written in Luke 23:39-43. Even with the thief's final words he proclaimed his belief and faith in Christ.

then why bother with the narrow road, or overcome, or be a martyr for Christ?

faith alone much easier and less painful

 

[for_his_glory]

faith is always required
baptism after the new covenant came into effect heb 9:16-17

Hebrews 9:11-28 is about redemption through the blood of Christ, but even though it says nothing about faith, we must have the faith as small as a mustard seed when we come to Christ and repent as we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9-13. It's all about faith in Christ Jesus, not idols.

 

[donadams]

Absolutely,
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

not according to scripture

Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

only gives the possibility of becoming a child by being born in baptism

 

[donadams]

We are told to make no graven images and bow down to them or pray to them for they are only servants of God like we are.

Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments

Lev 26:1 Ye shall make you no idols nor graven image, neither rear you up a standing image, neither shall ye set up any image of stone in your land, to bow down unto it: for I am the LORD your God.

Psa 95:6 O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker.
Psa 95:7 For he is our God; and we are the people of his pasture, and the sheep of his hand. To day if ye will hear his voice

Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.

my question is why does Jesus praise him

 

[donadams]

Hebrews 9:11-28 is about redemption through the blood of Christ, but even though it says nothing about faith, we must have the faith as small as a mustard seed when we come to Christ and repent as we accept Jesus as our Lord and Savior, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9-13. It's all about faith in Christ Jesus, not idols.

the merits of His blood are applied to our souls in baptism and the sacraments
act 2:38-39

"this promise"

ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

 

[for_his_glory]

the merits of His blood are applied to our souls in baptism and the sacraments
act 2:38-39

"this promise"

ez 36:25-27

25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

Only God knows the heart, like the thief on the cross, or those who make a death bed confession. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

​

 

[donadams]

There is nothing wrong with immersion in water as this is an outward appearance to others that you have received Gods Salvation and the Holy Spirit. When the Disciples where in the upper room they all received the Holy Spirit, not by immersion of water, but by Gods Spirit falling on them. What about those people who can not be immersed in water that are incapacitated. Peter did not say that it was through water that we receive the Holy Spirit in Acts 10:47, 48 he was saying that others should not forbid a Gentile who wants to be immersed in water, but repentance must come first. After repentance and the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7, we are then baptized in the Holy Spirit and fire through that of Christ baptism according to Acts 2:38, 39, Matthew 3:11.

Only God knows the heart, like the thief on the cross, or those who make a death bed confession. It has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.

​

mk16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

 

[donadams]

mk16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

no such thing as "faith alone"!

God baptizes ez 36:25 thru the apostles Jn 3:5 cannot enter on your own by faith alone
2 pet 1:11 shall be administered unto you

Just as God delivered the children of Israel from Egypt ex 3:8 thru Moses


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Matt 28:19 faith & baptism
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptism
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 eph 2:1 and 5 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 eph 4:30 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 4:5 one faith, one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!
Rev 1:5 washed in His blood
Faith and baptism are required Mk 16:16 eph 4:5

Faith alone even all faith avails NOTHING! 1 cor 13:2

Not called to “faith alone” Phil 1:29

faith being alone "faith alone" is dead! James

three are eternal FAITH, HOPE, & CHARITY!

1 cor 13:13

 

[for_his_glory]

mk16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved!

Have you never studied what the baptism of Christ is all about? It does not involve being immersed in water like that of John's baptism that was only for repentance as Jesus had not come yet, but that of receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that I explained in post #745. There is nothing wrong with being immersed in water as it is only an outward appearance to others that you have repented and received Jesus to be your Lord and Savior through the Spiritual rebirth in John 3:5-7.

 

[donadams]

Have you never studied what the baptism of Christ is all about? It does not involve being immersed in water like that of John's baptism that was only for repentance as Jesus had not come yet, but that of receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit that I explained in post #745. There is nothing wrong with being immersed in water as it is only an outward appearance to others that you have repented and received Jesus to be your Lord and Savior through the Spiritual rebirth in John 3:5-7.

spiritual rebiyis by water and the spirit

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.


The Christian sacrament* of baptismal regeneration is required for the new covenant and salvation!

*this promise acts 2:38-39 is a sacred oath from God ez 36:25-27 and a sacred oath is a sacrament!

Initiation!!!


Faith & Baptism is the initiation of the new and eternal covenant!

You cannot enter on you’re own or by “faith alone”!

You cannot receive Christ or grace by “faith alone”!

“Accept Christ as you’re personal lord and savior” is fundamentalist tradition not found scripture!

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

Baptismal regeneration a new creation in Christ! 2 Cor 5:17

A sacrament is an oath! A sacred promise from God! Ez 36:25-27
Acts 2:38-39 (this promise)

No baptism no grace!
No union with God and His saints thru Christ the mediator!

A sacrament is an outward sign for all men including infants And a gift from God to help us see what he does inwardly and invisibly by his grace!

As grace Washes our souls in the merits of Jesus blood from original and personal sin, so the outward action of washing is visible!

without the outward action the inward action cannot take place!

Jn 3:5 Titus 3:5 water and washing
acts 22:16 wash away your sin!

Jn 3:5 Born again BY water and the spirit! Not by “faith alone”!

They did not go to Jerusalem and preach “accept Christ as you’re personal Lord and savior “

They went to the river (water) and they baptized! Jn 3:22

A covenant requires an outward sign of the inward action of grace!

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Acts 22:16 washing away your sins.

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism.

1 pet 3:21 baptism saves you.

thks