Is baptism required for salvation?

[Free]

ordinary requirements is in the ordinary occurrence of life it is readily available and required, to reject it would be fatal

I still don't understand what you're saying.

are saved?

mk 13;13
matt 10:22
matt 24:13

Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

(All ESV.)

As I have stated numerous times, believers are justified (are saved), are being sanctified (being saved), and will be glorified (will be saved). That is the language the NT teaches regarding salvation.

 

[donadams]

I still don't understand what you're saying.


Act 2:47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Act 16:30 Then he brought them out and said, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
Act 16:31 And they said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

Rom 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees?

Rom 10:9 because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved.

Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—
Eph 2:6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2Ti 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Tit 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
Tit 3:6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
Tit 3:7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

(All ESV.)

As I have stated numerous times, believers are justified (are saved), are being sanctified (being saved), and will be glorified (will be saved). That is the language the NT teaches regarding salvation.

in the proccess of salvation but not saved!

mk 13:13 matt 10:22 matt 24:13 etc.

and we are justified by faith & baptism not faith alone

we cannot obtain grace by our efforts but once justified in grace we can increase grace by supernatural works
grow in grace abide in Christ bearing fruit Jn 15:1-5
in suffering carrying our cross
endure to the end matt 10:22

thks

 

[Eternally-grateful]

Baptism of the HS saves

Baptism in water is obedience to a command of God. if your not saved already. you just get wet. there is no saving value in water baptism. any more than their was in circumcision

 

[JLB]

There is only one baptism...

Ephesians 4:5 ---> "There is one Lord, one faith, one baptism."

Nicene Creed ---> "I confess one baptism..."

Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Hebrews 6:1-2

Baptisms, plural means more than one.

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now. Acts 1:5


I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:1-5


There is one baptism associated with unity and that is the one baptism by which we are baptized into one body.

For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit. 1 Corinthians 12:13

In this baptism the Holy Spirit is the One doing the baptizing.

The two other baptisms are found in Acts 1:5

for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Acts 1:5


A human being baptizes with water; after New Birth

The Spirit baptizes us into Christ; New Birth

Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit; after New Birth

I indeed baptized you with water, but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit. Mark 1:8

 

[donadams]

Baptism of the HS saves

Baptism in water is obedience to a command of God. if your not saved already. you just get wet. there is no saving value in water baptism. any more than their was in circumcision

where that in scripture?

we die with Christ in baptism

in baptism we put on Christ

baptism is the outward sign and initiation of the new covenant

not saved but in hr process of salvation
must abide in Christ and bear fruit Jn 15:1-5

suffer phil 1:29

endure to the end matt 10:22

thks

 

[JLB]

Baptism of the HS saves

Baptism in water is obedience to a command of God. if your not saved already. you just get wet. there is no saving value in water baptism. any more than their was in circumcision

Not the baptism with the Holy Spirit, whereby Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Acts 1:5

The baptism that that is associated with salvation is where the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ; the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

Is baptism an absolute requirement for salvation?

No, it's a public declaration of your devotion or conversion into Christianity, a rite of passage that marks your transition from one phase of life into the next, it's like a wedding ceremony, a public declaration of your civil union with your spouse, which is legally recognized not by your wedding, but by a marriage license issued by the government. The absolute requirement for salvation is to be born of water and of spirit, the former refers to natural birth, NOT baptism. "Water" therein refers to the amniotic fluid in the uterus.

 

[Carry_Your_Name]

what happens to those who believe but do not get baptised?

Baptized with water - or spirit and fire? John the baptist declared that indeed he baptized with water, Jesus the one who was to come, whose sandal straps he was not worthy to loose, will baptize with spirit and fire.

 

[onlysaved]

Hi dwb001



He could have been. We just don't know. The Scriptures account several times that the disciples baptized people. John the Baptist spent his adult life baptizing people that came, according to the Scriptures, from all over. So, I think that Scriptures are pretty clear that likely thousands of people were baptized in the days that Jesus walked the earth. Was the thief who was caught up with Jesus on Golgotha one of them? We have no way of knowing.

He obviously had enough of the Holy Spirit to give him understanding as to 'who' it was that was on that cross beside him. Did that come from his baptism? Maybe.

God bless,
Ted

Remember both of the thieves were mocking and cursing Jesus. It wasn't until later that the thief came to faith in Christ. Just goes to show. The Holy Spirit can change our hearts in the blink of an eye.
There is no reason to believe that this guy might have been baptized. It is very unlikely. Not impossible just not likely. After all it was a baptism of repentance and this guy was clearly unrepentant until the very last.
The Apostle Paul didn't hold baptism as an important part of his ministry though he did baptise some he says that "i didn't come to baptise but to preach the gospel. "

Believes should be baptized when they feel convicted by the Holy Spirit that it is time for them for this step of obedience. They should not do it out of fear of any kind, least of all what someone else tells them to do or tells them they have to do. At that point it absolutely becomes a work and if you trust that for your salvation you are required to uphold every law God ever wrote.

 

[miamited]

it is time for them for this step of obedience.

Hi onlysaved

So you do agree that baptism is a 'step of obedience'. And I'm going to 'assume' that you do believe Jesus' words that obedience to his commands is a necessary part of our working out our salvation with trembling. So, if one is not baptized, are they obedient to Jesus' commands?

 

[donadams]

Remember both of the thieves were mocking and cursing Jesus. It wasn't until later that the thief came to faith in Christ. Just goes to show. The Holy Spirit can change our hearts in the blink of an eye.
There is no reason to believe that this guy might have been baptized. It is very unlikely. Not impossible just not likely. After all it was a baptism of repentance and this guy was clearly unrepentant until the very last.
The Apostle Paul didn't hold baptism as an important part of his ministry though he did baptise some he says that "i didn't come to baptise but to preach the gospel. "

Believes should be baptized when they feel convicted by the Holy Spirit that it is time for them for this step of obedience. They should not do it out of fear of any kind, least of all what someone else tells them to do or tells them they have to do. At that point it absolutely becomes a work and if you trust that for your salvation you are required to uphold every law God ever wrote.

where does it say "came to faith"?

baptism is ordinarily required under the new covenant but its not in effect until the death of the savior! heb 9:16-17

how do you know he was not saved by humble prayer?

can imperfect faith save?

James 2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

James 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.


Scripture Quiz!

which is scripture and which is fundamentalist tradition?

Saved and have life by faith alone, then follow the narrow road.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Born of water, born again of the spirit.

Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Saved by faith alone, then get baptized as a profession of the faith that already saved me.

Mk 16:16 he who believes and is baptized shall be saved.

Receive Christ and you are a child of God by faith alone.

Jn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

[donadams]

Not the baptism with the Holy Spirit, whereby Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Acts 1:5

The baptism that that is associated with salvation is where the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ; the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13

whats the water for? Jn 3:5

 

[Corinth77777]

Just a quick question(thought).

Is baptism an absolute requirement for salvation?

When you say salvation you mean to be born from the spirit of the one who came from above.
...
God knows how things have been passed on to us. We are judged by our heart. God can work through incorrect knowledge one receives. Nothing is impossible with God. God can work wherever you are in your understanding.

The key is to be immersed into His presence by being caught up in His work.

Look up the passage where all were baptized under the cloud in the red sea and drank from the rock.

What was significant about that?

Yet all one might see of the great commision is water baptism. It's all about faith moving in what you say you believe. And while I believe God can use water to save through your faith in Him. He can use other actions of your faith as well. BUT WHAT WAS INITIALLY INTENDED?

Was the prisoner, whom Jesus said would be in Paradise, baptised?

Was He under that despensation?

 

[JLB]

whats the water for? Jn 3:5

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Jesus is answering the question of Nicodemus about being born again. Contextually that is what this conversation is about.
Birth. The New Birth.

Jesus uses natural birth to help Nicodemus understand spiritual birth.

• Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

• Answer: Born of water refers to natural birth.

Jesus plainly explains this in the next verse.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water refers to natural birth.
Born of the Spirit refers to spiritual birth.


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12


Born of the flesh = natural birth = earthly things

Born of the Spirit = spiritual birth = heavenly things.

 

[Walpole]

Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. John 3:5-6

Jesus is answering the question of Nicodemus about being born again. Contextually that is what this conversation is about.
Birth. The New Birth.

Jesus uses natural birth to help Nicodemus understand spiritual birth.

• Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

• Answer: Born of water refers to natural birth.

Jesus plainly explains this in the next verse.

• That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Born of water refers to natural birth.
Born of the Spirit refers to spiritual birth.


If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? John 3:12


Born of the flesh = natural birth = earthly things

Born of the Spirit = spiritual birth = heavenly things.

It's always just a matter of time before the anti-Sacramentalists throw out the amniotic fluid argument. This is clearly fallacious for multiple reasons.

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again. Nicodemus’ question to Jesus was clearly sarcastic. For surely he knew he could not climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth. The question again was how a man can be born again, that is a second time. If the “water” which Jesus refers to is birth / amniotic fluid, then Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus’ sarcastic suggestion that he climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth.

---> What does St. John record Jesus and the Apostles doing after this encounter with Nicodemus? (See John 3:22)

---> Why does the setting occur in Aenon? (See John 3:23)


Secondly, NOWHERE in Scripture is being born synonymous with being "born of water." Lastly, our Blessed Lord says man must be born "of" water. The Greek word for "of" is ἐk, which means from / of / an origin of something. (Source) Man is not birthed from water, but rather from a mother; that is, a person. Man is not born from water / amniotic fluid. In other words, water is not the origin of man's natural birth and Scripture never refers to it as such. (e.g. Matthew 1:1-11)

Third, St. Peter refers to baptism as the antitype of the deluge. In Christianity, the reality of something always surpasses the type / figure of it. If baptism is merely an empty ritual as Protestants here are arguing, then it would be the very first time in all of Scripture where the type / figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it.

Lastly, at the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, Christ instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19) No one, not even the most ardent anti-sacramentalist Protestant, use this form for a baptism sans water! In other words, how many of you perform "dry" baptisms, that is, a baptism without water???


It is important to understand the genesis of this anti-Sacramentalism with regards to Christian baptism. Zwingli was bold enough to state the Apostles and fathers were actually wrong about baptism, and that his (Zwingli's) understanding was a new and different path from the regula fidei of Christianity...

"In this matter of baptism - if I may be pardoned for saying it - I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the Apostles...At many points we shall have to tread a different path from that taken either by ancient or more modern writers or by our own contemporaries." (Zwingli, De Baptismo, 1525 A.D.)


In Christianity, matter...matters.

 

[JLB]

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again.

First comes natural birth, born of flesh.

Then comes spiritual birth.
Born of the Spirut.

Two distinct births are required to be qualified for the kingdom of God.

Natural Birth and spiritual birth.


Who does that exclude?

 

[mailmandan]

It's always just a matter of time before the anti-Sacramentalists throw out the amniotic fluid argument. This is clearly fallacious for multiple reasons.

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again. Nicodemus’ question to Jesus was clearly sarcastic. For surely he knew he could not climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth. The question again was how a man can be born again, that is a second time. If the “water” which Jesus refers to is birth / amniotic fluid, then Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus’ sarcastic suggestion that he climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth.

---> What does St. John record Jesus and the Apostles doing after this encounter with Nicodemus? (See John 3:22)

---> Why does the setting occur in Aenon? (See John 3:23)

Secondly, NOWHERE in Scripture is being born synonymous with being "born of water." Lastly, our Blessed Lord says man must be born "of" water. The Greek word for "of" is ἐk, which means from / of / an origin of something. (Source) Man is not birthed from water, but rather from a mother; that is, a person. Man is not born from water / amniotic fluid. In other words, water is not the origin of man's natural birth and Scripture never refers to it as such. (e.g. Matthew 1:1-11)

Third, St. Peter refers to baptism as the antitype of the deluge. In Christianity, the reality of something always surpasses the type / figure of it. If baptism is merely an empty ritual as Protestants here are arguing, then it would be the very first time in all of Scripture where the type / figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it.

Lastly, at the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, Christ instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19) No one, not even the most ardent anti-sacramentalist Protestant, use this form for a baptism sans water! In other words, how many of you perform "dry" baptisms, that is, a baptism without water???

It is important to understand the genesis of this anti-Sacramentalism with regards to Christian baptism. Zwingli was bold enough to state the Apostles and fathers were actually wrong about baptism, and that his (Zwingli's) understanding was a new and different path from the regula fidei of Christianity...

"In this matter of baptism - if I may be pardoned for saying it - I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the Apostles...At many points we shall have to tread a different path from that taken either by ancient or more modern writers or by our own contemporaries." (Zwingli, De Baptismo, 1525 A.D.)

In Christianity, matter...matters.

There are those who would argue that the natural sense of the passage parallels "water" with being born out of a mother’s womb (verse 4) and with "flesh" (verse 6). The first is a physical, literal, "flesh" birth (which is, of course, accompanied by amniotic "water") and the second is Spirit. You reject that view, but have you considered living water?

In John 3:5? Jesus said, "born of water and the Spirit" He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read baptism into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself. *Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. Did you see that? If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.

In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life. *Jesus connects this living water here with the Holy Spirit and with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.

Also "water" is used in the Bible as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) Clean because of the word, washing of water by the word. When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration. (Titus 3:5)

So, to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.

 

[onlysaved]

It's always just a matter of time before the anti-Sacramentalists throw out the amniotic fluid argument. This is clearly fallacious for multiple reasons.

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again. Nicodemus’ question to Jesus was clearly sarcastic. For surely he knew he could not climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth. The question again was how a man can be born again, that is a second time. If the “water” which Jesus refers to is birth / amniotic fluid, then Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus’ sarcastic suggestion that he climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth.

---> What does St. John record Jesus and the Apostles doing after this encounter with Nicodemus? (See John 3:22)

---> Why does the setting occur in Aenon? (See John 3:23)


Secondly, NOWHERE in Scripture is being born synonymous with being "born of water." Lastly, our Blessed Lord says man must be born "of" water. The Greek word for "of" is ἐk, which means from / of / an origin of something. (Source) Man is not birthed from water, but rather from a mother; that is, a person. Man is not born from water / amniotic fluid. In other words, water is not the origin of man's natural birth and Scripture never refers to it as such. (e.g. Matthew 1:1-11)

Third, St. Peter refers to baptism as the antitype of the deluge. In Christianity, the reality of something always surpasses the type / figure of it. If baptism is merely an empty ritual as Protestants here are arguing, then it would be the very first time in all of Scripture where the type / figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it.

Lastly, at the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, Christ instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19) No one, not even the most ardent anti-sacramentalist Protestant, use this form for a baptism sans water! In other words, how many of you perform "dry" baptisms, that is, a baptism without water???


It is important to understand the genesis of this anti-Sacramentalism with regards to Christian baptism. Zwingli was bold enough to state the Apostles and fathers were actually wrong about baptism, and that his (Zwingli's) understanding was a new and different path from the regula fidei of Christianity...

"In this matter of baptism - if I may be pardoned for saying it - I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the Apostles...At many points we shall have to tread a different path from that taken either by ancient or more modern writers or by our own contemporaries." (Zwingli, De Baptismo, 1525 A.D.)


In Christianity, matter...matters.

You just made baptism a work. Just like the Hebrews made circumcision a work.

It's always just a matter of time before the anti-Sacramentalists throw out the amniotic fluid argument. This is clearly fallacious for multiple reasons.

First, if the water refers to natural birth, Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus' erroneous understanding of being born again. Nicodemus’ question to Jesus was clearly sarcastic. For surely he knew he could not climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth. The question again was how a man can be born again, that is a second time. If the “water” which Jesus refers to is birth / amniotic fluid, then Jesus would be affirming Nicodemus’ sarcastic suggestion that he climb back into his mother’s womb for a second birth.

---> What does St. John record Jesus and the Apostles doing after this encounter with Nicodemus? (See John 3:22)

---> Why does the setting occur in Aenon? (See John 3:23)


Secondly, NOWHERE in Scripture is being born synonymous with being "born of water." Lastly, our Blessed Lord says man must be born "of" water. The Greek word for "of" is ἐk, which means from / of / an origin of something. (Source) Man is not birthed from water, but rather from a mother; that is, a person. Man is not born from water / amniotic fluid. In other words, water is not the origin of man's natural birth and Scripture never refers to it as such. (e.g. Matthew 1:1-11)

Third, St. Peter refers to baptism as the antitype of the deluge. In Christianity, the reality of something always surpasses the type / figure of it. If baptism is merely an empty ritual as Protestants here are arguing, then it would be the very first time in all of Scripture where the type / figure of something would have surpassed the reality of it.

Lastly, at the end of St. Matthew's Gospel, Christ instructs His Apostles to teach and baptize all nations. He gives the Apostles the the proper form for administering the sacrament, "...baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." (Mt 28:19) No one, not even the most ardent anti-sacramentalist Protestant, use this form for a baptism sans water! In other words, how many of you perform "dry" baptisms, that is, a baptism without water???


It is important to understand the genesis of this anti-Sacramentalism with regards to Christian baptism. Zwingli was bold enough to state the Apostles and fathers were actually wrong about baptism, and that his (Zwingli's) understanding was a new and different path from the regula fidei of Christianity...

"In this matter of baptism - if I may be pardoned for saying it - I can only conclude that all the doctors have been in error from the time of the Apostles...At many points we shall have to tread a different path from that taken either by ancient or more modern writers or by our own contemporaries." (Zwingli, De Baptismo, 1525 A.D.)


In Christianity, matter...matters.

He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation.
16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

1. As we have discussed before. This entire passage may not even be scripture. It's clear that at least most people who read the Gospel of Mark did not read these words because it was not in what they had to read.
2. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved... now look at the second half which is so often left out for the convenience of cherry picking. But whoever does not believe is condemned already. Emphasis on baptism not present.. belief is what matters.
3. The apostle Paul, the greatest contributor to the new Testament .

Was thankful that he baptized so few of the Corinthian saints because they weren't mature enough and they would have fought over who they needed to be baptized by. He goes on further to say that
"so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

You are making baptism a work in which you put your faith. Please go read the book of Romans and everywhere you read the word circumcision put baptism in it's place because you're doing the exact same thing.

 

[mailmandan]

You just made baptism a work. Just like the Hebrews made circumcision a work. You are making baptism a work in which you put your faith.

You nailed it! That sums it right up.

 

[donadams]

Not the baptism with the Holy Spirit, whereby Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues.
Acts 1:5

The baptism that that is associated with salvation is where the Holy Spirit baptizes us into Christ; the body of Christ.
1 Corinthians 12:13

1 cor 12:30 the rhetorical question: do all christians speak in tongues?
No!