Quote,
"I think one has to look at it all from the vantage point of a broad perspective, assuming also that there is likely to be a diversity of opinions and tastes."
Your thought is accepted. I can't help being who I am and part of my training is in analysis. My "method" is to break things down into very small parts so that they may be examined. That's something that could lead others to see what I do as "nit-picking" if I were to leave it at that. But the second and crucial part of the "method" so-called, is to assemble the carefully examined pieces into a completed frame. That's the thing, that's the 'trick'.
So if I were to point to your statement and then note that we are speaking about a Law One and a Law Two confusion, and if I were not to then go on and explain, you would be rightly mystified by my reply. And if I were to belabor the point and say that the First Law is to Love God and that we are to love Him above all else, even our own selves? Well, you might be rather miffed at me because I would be casting you in a bad light, presuming to teach you something that you already know and actually demonstrate well.
So the "analysis" fails. But then when we continue to look at what you have said and categorize it into the 2nd Greatest Commandment, and do so with the Sure Knowledge that Our Father is Gracious and that He has already declared his love and care for you, then we may better consider the subject.
Confusion comes when we hold two (or more) opposing ideas in our hearts but do not assign priority. The ideas themselves are not the cause of our consternation. No. It is the improper assignment or lack of priority given to one over the other that causes the whirlwind to come. Our minds may shift, alternating between what seems to be condemnation and justification. But none of that is of God. We are to no longer be children and are to earnestly desire the pure milk of the Word. This is the nourishment that we all need.
That includes denying ourselves, obeying the law, following God with all our hearts and making room for others to do so even as they are led. Notice that I did not say, "As I am led." That is a presumption that shall not stand --for neither you, nor I-- may insist that we and we alone are correct. Rather let us agree that even in our disagreement (and I don't really insist that all tats are sin, I try not to be shallow like that) but even were we to disagree, let it be known that this is not an essential thing, not a salvation issue and certainly it is something that we can say, "Let's not go too far, here - right?" in.
So that's more about what I mean when I ask to be allowed to moderate. If, in the future, you take it upon yourself to give a summary position for this thread, I will want to insist that you do so fairly and objectively, and refrain from cherry-picking quotes that you like only.
And if that is too much to ask? Then simply refrain from giving one-sided "summary" statements just for the sake of peace and because I do ask so nicely.
I remain cordially your brother, firmly fixed in the admonishment that we love the brethren fiercely (even though in this I still fail),
Sparrow
"I think one has to look at it all from the vantage point of a broad perspective, assuming also that there is likely to be a diversity of opinions and tastes."
Your thought is accepted. I can't help being who I am and part of my training is in analysis. My "method" is to break things down into very small parts so that they may be examined. That's something that could lead others to see what I do as "nit-picking" if I were to leave it at that. But the second and crucial part of the "method" so-called, is to assemble the carefully examined pieces into a completed frame. That's the thing, that's the 'trick'.
So if I were to point to your statement and then note that we are speaking about a Law One and a Law Two confusion, and if I were not to then go on and explain, you would be rightly mystified by my reply. And if I were to belabor the point and say that the First Law is to Love God and that we are to love Him above all else, even our own selves? Well, you might be rather miffed at me because I would be casting you in a bad light, presuming to teach you something that you already know and actually demonstrate well.
So the "analysis" fails. But then when we continue to look at what you have said and categorize it into the 2nd Greatest Commandment, and do so with the Sure Knowledge that Our Father is Gracious and that He has already declared his love and care for you, then we may better consider the subject.
Confusion comes when we hold two (or more) opposing ideas in our hearts but do not assign priority. The ideas themselves are not the cause of our consternation. No. It is the improper assignment or lack of priority given to one over the other that causes the whirlwind to come. Our minds may shift, alternating between what seems to be condemnation and justification. But none of that is of God. We are to no longer be children and are to earnestly desire the pure milk of the Word. This is the nourishment that we all need.
That includes denying ourselves, obeying the law, following God with all our hearts and making room for others to do so even as they are led. Notice that I did not say, "As I am led." That is a presumption that shall not stand --for neither you, nor I-- may insist that we and we alone are correct. Rather let us agree that even in our disagreement (and I don't really insist that all tats are sin, I try not to be shallow like that) but even were we to disagree, let it be known that this is not an essential thing, not a salvation issue and certainly it is something that we can say, "Let's not go too far, here - right?" in.
So that's more about what I mean when I ask to be allowed to moderate. If, in the future, you take it upon yourself to give a summary position for this thread, I will want to insist that you do so fairly and objectively, and refrain from cherry-picking quotes that you like only.
And if that is too much to ask? Then simply refrain from giving one-sided "summary" statements just for the sake of peace and because I do ask so nicely.
I remain cordially your brother, firmly fixed in the admonishment that we love the brethren fiercely (even though in this I still fail),
Sparrow
myself and not say any more than 'this is what it sounds like (to me).' Our Father is very clear in His teaching that we are to consider our brothers and sisters in a way that gives as much weight to them as we give to ourselves.