Is belief "works"?

[veryberry]

Sorry, after I re-read my post, it sounded a bit harsh, that was not my intent, I'm a bit rusty...

I guess I was frustrated, because up until the "slogan", it appeared that we largely agreed, with Scriptures - that faith without works was dead.

No problem, I appreciate your responses.

Thus, faith alone (which is without works) is dead. How can faith alone/apart from works be salvific if the Bible ITSELF explicitly says otherwise?

I think the problem here is that when I say "faith alone saves"...you are taking that as me saying that 'faith w/out works saves'. You think that I mean: A person who says they have faith but has no works is saved.

But, what I mean is that 'faith apart from works saves'. A person who has faith that results in works is saved, but it is their faith apart from their works that saves.

This is why I then say, "the faith that saves is never alone". If you truly have faith in the Lord, works WILL follow...because you are trusting him...and if you are trusting him you will obey. You obey because you trust & have faith. Now, if you say you have faith but do not obey then that faith you say that you have is dead, you don't really trust (or you would obey), you have dead faith, you don't really trust...your faith is false...in this case faith alone (which is without works) does not save. Simply acknowledging and agreeing that he is Lord and that he died for our sins (and thinking that you trust him when you really don't), will not save...you must really trust & if you really trust you will obey.

This is what most people who say "faith alone saves" mean...they are not saying that someone who says they have faith but has no works is saved. They just mean that it is their faith alone that is saving them...that their works are not taking part in their salvation. But, rather they are doing works because of their faith...because they trust him...not to be saved.

 

[WIP]

No problem, I appreciate your responses.


I think the problem here is that when I say "faith alone saves"...you are taking that as me saying that 'faith w/out works saves'. You think that I mean: A person who says they have faith but has no works is saved.

But, what I mean is that 'faith apart from works saves'. A person who has faith that results in works is saved, but it is their faith apart from their works that saves.

This is why I then say, "the faith that saves is never alone". If you truly have faith in the Lord, works WILL follow...because you are trusting him...and if you are trusting him you will obey. You obey because you trust & have faith. Now, if you say you have faith but do not obey then that faith you say that you have is dead, you don't really trust (or you would obey), you have dead faith, you don't really trust...your faith is false...in this case faith alone (which is without works) does not save. Simply acknowledging and agreeing that he is Lord and that he died for our sins (and thinking that you trust him when you really don't), will not save...you must really trust & if you really trust you will obey.

This is what most people who say "faith alone saves" mean...they are not saying that someone who says they have faith but has no works is saved. They just mean that it is their faith alone that is saving them...that their works are not taking part in their salvation. But, rather they are doing works because of their faith...because they trust him...not to be saved.

 

[francisdesales]

I think the problem here is that when I say "faith alone saves"...you are taking that as me saying that 'faith w/out works saves'.

Isn't that the meaning of "ALONE"? Without anything else? Can you understand my confusion?

You think that I mean: A person who says they have faith but has no works is saved.

But, what I mean is that 'faith apart from works saves'. A person who has faith that results in works is saved, but it is their faith apart from their works that saves.

The word "apart" and "alone" does not mean the same thing.

I am saved by faith alone
or
I am saved by faith apart from works (to mean, I am saved by faith apart from works, but with love or repentance)

You see, that is why slogans are not very good when discussing theology that can imply totally different things. The second statement is not the same as the first.

This is why I then say, "the faith that saves is never alone".

! Which means that there is no such thing as salvific faith that is alone, correct?

If you truly have faith in the Lord, works WILL follow...because you are trusting him...and if you are trusting him you will obey.

You obey because you trust & have faith. Now, if you say you have faith but do not obey then that faith you say that you have is dead, you don't really trust (or you would obey), you have dead faith, you don't really trust...your faith is false...

In the the "faith alone" statement, the value of the faith is not mentioned, is it? No. It doesn't state "true faith is saving" or "false faith is not saving". To qualify the faith, one must have works. That is why the "faith alone" slogan is poorly done. What faith? Any faith? Certainly not dead faith. And what makes faith "living"? It doesn't happen by itself, it is a movement of God's Spirit (in other words, faith AND works are BOTH grace from God. God doesn't just give faith. He gives us the desire and will to DO things, as well Phil 2:12-13)

In other words, faith alone doesn't generate works. God HIMSELF does that. Both faith and the works are the result of God's grace. Otherwise, it is no longer grace.

Regards

 

[WIP]

Now it would seem things are coming to the front and I may get an education.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Set apart to do what? Pontius Pilate was 'set apart' by God ...

Please show me where that verse is, because I've not run across it. "Set apart" in the is Greek hagiazo, which literally means to "to purify, make clean, holy" while being set apart for service to God. Pilate was not "made holy" -- but when a believer is sanctified, he/she is indeed made holy, and is set apart by God. Your claim about Pilate is a grossly incorrect, and cannot be supported biblically.

 

[veryberry]

Isn't that the meaning of "ALONE"? Without anything else? Can you understand my confusion?

I understand the confusion. Yes, that is the meaning of "alone". 'Faith alone saves' I am saying faith alone (all by itself) saves. I am not saying "Faith that is alone (all by itself) saves. In other words...Although this faith is accompanied with works it is still the faith alone/all by itself/apart from works that saves.

The word "apart" and "alone" does not mean the same thing.

I am saved by faith alone
or
I am saved by faith apart from works (to mean, I am saved by faith apart from works, but with love or repentance)

The word 'alone' means to be seperate from, isolated from, apart from.

To say I am saved by faith alone does not exclude repentance...repentance is a change of heart/mind...when we truly put our faith in Jesus, we are having a change of heart/mind (repentance)...we see our sinfulness & we turn our trust to HIM...we now rely on him.

! Which means that there is no such thing as salvific faith that is alone, correct?

Generally yes, I think we both agree that there are extreme cases where there are people who 'would' show their faith (with works/acts/obedience) but under unusual circumstances are unable to...but if there is nothing making it impossible for you to show your faith (with works/acts/obedience) then, if you have slavific faith, you WILL do so...thus your faith is not alone...the works do not make your faith slavific...it was slavific before you did the works...if you died before you did the works you are still saved...so long as your faith was genuine.

In the the "faith alone" statement, the value of the faith is not mentioned, is it? No. It doesn't state "true faith is saving" or "false faith is not saving". To qualify the faith, one must have works. That is why the "faith alone" slogan is poorly done. What faith? Any faith? Certainly not dead faith.

Seeing as to how dead faith is considered - false faith, when I say "faith alone" I would think that one would assume that I am talking about genuine faith. I personally, do not believe that to qualify ones faith they must have works...I believe that if someone has slavific faith then they will have works...I don't believe that the works make the faith slavific...that would make us dependent on our works for salvation...thus we would be trying to earn salvation...and that would mean that salvation was not a gift of grace but of debt.

And what makes faith "living"? It doesn't happen by itself, it is a movement of God's Spirit (in other words, faith AND works are BOTH grace from God. God doesn't just give faith. He gives us the desire and will to DO things, as well Phil 2:12-13)

In other words, faith alone doesn't generate works. God HIMSELF does that. Both faith and the works are the result of God's grace. Otherwise, it is no longer grace.

Regards

I agree, that both faith & works are a result of God's grace...he calls us to faith (without this we wouldn't even seek). Faith comes by hearing the word of God...we are moved to works by him also...he does works through us...we join in his work...he calls others to him through us...this is why we do works...because we trust him, & we love...We love God & want to build up his kingdom, we love each other and want to build up the church (body of Christ/believers)...we do works to glorify God, not ourselves. It is impossible to please God without faith. without faith your works are worthless...they may have helped someone but they are worthless to you...they are like filthy rags to him.

God saves us when we put our faith in him...our faith becomes 'living' (by Gods grace) the second we put faith in him. This is when we are reborn (born of the spirit). Putting your faith in him (which includes repentance), being saved, and being reborn all happen simultaneously. From this moment on, through the Holy spirit, God is continually sanctifying us (making us holy), He makes us a new creature...he is changing us...we become more & more like Christ...we are growing in Christ.

God moves us to works and we obey because we have faith. All of this is because of Gods grace. To say that works are a result of faith does not mean that they are not a result of God's grace.

 

[Butch5]

Why in the world would God set apart someone if he/she were not saved?

Hi tnd,

If you took notice, I said saved in the end. Salvation is a process not a one time event as some argue. So one can be saved in the sense that they have entered into a relationship with God and have been set apart. However, that is no guaranteed that they will be saved in the end.

 

[francisdesales]

Please show me where that verse is, because I've not run across it. "Set apart" in the is Greek hagiazo, which literally means to "to purify, make clean, holy" while being set apart for service to God. Pilate was not "made holy" -- but when a believer is sanctified, he/she is indeed made holy, and is set apart by God. Your claim about Pilate is a grossly incorrect, and cannot be supported biblically.

No, he wasn't set apart in that manner. I was thinking "chosen", for good or ill.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Hi tnd,

If you took notice, I said saved in the end. Salvation is a process not a one time event as some argue. So one can be saved in the sense that they have entered into a relationship with God and have been set apart. However, that is no guaranteed that they will be saved in the end.

Agree. Too many people think they are of the specific predestined elect, when we can't possibly know that until we are standing before the judgment seat...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

I understand the confusion. Yes, that is the meaning of "alone". 'Faith alone saves' I am saying faith alone (all by itself) saves. I am not saying "Faith that is alone (all by itself) saves. In other words...Although this faith is accompanied with works it is still the faith alone/all by itself/apart from works that saves.

You have thoroughly confused me!

Faith alone (all by itself) saves.
Faith that is alone (all by itself) does not save

I have to admit, this is not helping one bit. It sounds mysteriously like semantic games. The two constructs that you gave me are identical, are they not??? :dunno

I have a strange feeling that if there was no such "pillar" as "Sola fide", we would agree, for the most part... I think you are trying to have it both ways. But maybe I'm just slow?

To say I am saved by faith alone does not exclude repentance...

Well, repentance and faith are not the same thing. That is like saying faith and works are the same thing. It sounds like you are broadening the definition of "faith" to include any good reaction to God, to include love, hope, repentance, conversion, trust and obedience. There is nothing LEFT to separate faith from anything else that can be done! Repentance is indeed a "work", since faith moves us to properly repent to the same degree that faith moves us to love.

Generally yes, I think we both agree that there are extreme cases where there are people who 'would' show their faith (with works/acts/obedience) but under unusual circumstances are unable to...but if there is nothing making it impossible for you to show your faith (with works/acts/obedience) then, if you have slavific faith, you WILL do so...thus your faith is not alone...the works do not make your faith slavific...it was slavific before you did the works...

That is not how Scripture describes it. Otherwise, Abraham would have been just BEFORE he took Isaac up the mountain. The order appears to be that Abraham wrestled with the idea and went through the work of preparing to sacrifice - and God did NOT stop Abraham until he was about to strike Isaac down. I think there is no reason to separate the faith from the work (unless, well, you know, protecting the slogan!)

if you died before you did the works you are still saved...so long as your faith was genuine.

How do you know? Having trust in God is not something that just wells up in an instant. Trust is experienced over time, no? Again, I don't see the need to peg your "moment of salvation" down to the minute, since salvation/justification is ongoing, reflecting our relationship with God. It is not a one-time moment.

Seeing as to how dead faith is considered - false faith, when I say "faith alone" I would think that one would assume that I am talking about genuine faith.

James didn't see it that way. He states "can THAT faith save"? Faith seems to require a modifier before it is considered salvific. You just can't say "faith alone" and presume it is "good enough" in God's eyes.

I personally, do not believe that to qualify ones faith they must have works...

That is the ordinary way, according to James. I don't see Paul contradicting that, if we consider that Paul is speaking about earning salvation through works/actions. We are saved apart from legalism. But he is pretty clear that PROPER Torah following (which is loving God with our entire self, and our neighbor as ourself, from the heart) is a requirement to enter the Kingdom.

I agree, that both faith & works are a result of God's grace...

That's the KEY point of both James and Paul. I don't see the need to wrestle over whether the chicken came first or the egg. Or whether we can have the chicken without the egg. Both are from God. We cannot generate EITHER by ourselves and bring forth salvation. Thus, the argument, to me, is not worth getting worked up over. It CERTAINLY is not the "center of the Gospel", as some of our classic separated brothers have claimed. What is important is that we cannot earn salvation. Stop. End!

Take care and have a good weekend.

Regards

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Salvation is a process not a one time event as some argue. So one can be saved in the sense that they have entered into a relationship with God and have been set apart. However, that is no guaranteed that they will be saved in the end.

The phases of salvation are a process. The guarantee and surety of our salvation, and the salvation to come, is the Holy Spirit. As long as you have faith, the faith that solicits the Holy Spirit, and continue in that faith, you have the surety of your salvation now, and the guarantee of your salvation on the Day of Wrath.

"21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." (2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV)

"13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14 NIV)

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Hi tnd,

If you took notice, I said saved in the end. Salvation is a process not a one time event as some argue. So one can be saved in the sense that they have entered into a relationship with God and have been set apart. However, that is no guaranteed that they will be saved in the end.

I would call you attention to the following passage:

Acts 26 NASB
16 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;
17 rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
​

This is the Greek hagiazo as defined in the previous post, and Jesus is clearly saying here that those who have faith in Him are sanctified -- set apart, made holy, consecrated to God. I can't argue with the Lord. If I were to adopt your view, I'd be forced to believe that I am not guaranteed heaven, and the Bible quite clearly teaches that I am, based on my faith, and that alone. Faith + nothing = salvation.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

You have thoroughly confused me!

Faith alone (all by itself) saves.
Faith that is alone (all by itself) does not save

I have to admit, this is not helping one bit. It sounds mysteriously like semantic games. The two constructs that you gave me are identical, are they not??? :dunno

I have a strange feeling that if there was no such "pillar" as "Sola fide", we would agree, for the most part... I think you are trying to have it both ways. But maybe I'm just slow?



Well, repentance and faith are not the same thing. That is like saying faith and works are the same thing. It sounds like you are broadening the definition of "faith" to include any good reaction to God, to include love, hope, repentance, conversion, trust and obedience. There is nothing LEFT to separate faith from anything else that can be done! Repentance is indeed a "work", since faith moves us to properly repent to the same degree that faith moves us to love.



That is not how Scripture describes it. Otherwise, Abraham would have been just BEFORE he took Isaac up the mountain. The order appears to be that Abraham wrestled with the idea and went through the work of preparing to sacrifice - and God did NOT stop Abraham until he was about to strike Isaac down. I think there is no reason to separate the faith from the work (unless, well, you know, protecting the slogan!)



How do you know? Having trust in God is not something that just wells up in an instant. Trust is experienced over time, no? Again, I don't see the need to peg your "moment of salvation" down to the minute, since salvation/justification is ongoing, reflecting our relationship with God. It is not a one-time moment.



James didn't see it that way. He states "can THAT faith save"? Faith seems to require a modifier before it is considered salvific. You just can't say "faith alone" and presume it is "good enough" in God's eyes.



That is the ordinary way, according to James. I don't see Paul contradicting that, if we consider that Paul is speaking about earning salvation through works/actions. We are saved apart from legalism. But he is pretty clear that PROPER Torah following (which is loving God with our entire self, and our neighbor as ourself, from the heart) is a requirement to enter the Kingdom.



That's the KEY point of both James and Paul. I don't see the need to wrestle over whether the chicken came first or the egg. Or whether we can have the chicken without the egg. Both are from God. We cannot generate EITHER by ourselves and bring forth salvation. Thus, the argument, to me, is not worth getting worked up over. It CERTAINLY is not the "center of the Gospel", as some of our classic separated brothers have claimed. What is important is that we cannot earn salvation. Stop. End!

Take care and have a good weekend.

Regards

I'm convinced that keeping the clear distinction between 'justification', and 'salvation' is what makes this matter understandable and out of the pitfalls of misunderstanding what the other is saying.

 

[veryberry]

You have thoroughly confused me!

Faith alone (all by itself) saves.
Faith that is alone (all by itself) does not save

I have to admit, this is not helping one bit. It sounds mysteriously like semantic games. The two constructs that you gave me are identical, are they not??? :dunno

I have a strange feeling that if there was no such "pillar" as "Sola fide", we would agree, for the most part... I think you are trying to have it both ways. But maybe I'm just slow?

Maybe this will help. Billy & Bubba are walking down the street. Billy is listening to his ipod. Billy & Bubba run into their friend Bob while walking down the street. Billy gives his friend Bob his ipod. Who did Bob get the ipod from? He got the ipod from Billy...not Bubba...but Billy was not alone. So, although he recieved the ipod from Billy alone, Billy was not alone (he was with Bubba). Just as we are saved through faith alone, but, our faith is not alone (accompanied by works)...but the works don't take part in saving us, so we are saved by faith alone.

Well, repentance and faith are not the same thing. That is like saying faith and works are the same thing. It sounds like you are broadening the definition of "faith" to include any good reaction to God, to include love, hope, repentance, conversion, trust and obedience. There is nothing LEFT to separate faith from anything else that can be done! Repentance is indeed a "work", since faith moves us to properly repent to the same degree that faith moves us to love.

Not broadening the definition. Faith- when we put our trust & confidence in him. Like I stated before, repentance- a change of heart/mind. When we put faith in him we have seen our sinfullness...we feel convicted...we see our need for him...& we turn from our old ways...turn to him...have a change of heart/mind (repentance)...put our faith in him...trust him...rely on him...we repent (change our mind/heart). This then leads to obedience & works (that are not worthless). This is why True Faith (not dead/false faith) WILL have works. We know that if someone does not have works then their faith is dead/false, thus faith without works is dead.

.... I think there is no reason to separate the faith from the work (unless, well, you know, protecting the slogan!)

lol...:biglol...I like you francisdesales...you got a sense of humor on ya.

How do you know? Having trust in God is not something that just wells up in an instant. Trust is experienced over time, no? Again, I don't see the need to peg your "moment of salvation" down to the minute, since salvation/justification is ongoing, reflecting our relationship with God. It is not a one-time moment.

He calls you to trust him if that is what you mean. But, at some point you do have to actually put your trust in him, so...yes, it does happen in a moment...if it happens. Trust might be learned over time, because we are reluctant to trust...but when it happens...it happens.

No, you don't need to peg the moment you were saved. Some people don't really even know the moment they were saved...this stuff usually kinda comes in hindsight...as He is opening our eyes. some people know the exact date, some don't.

The event of justification took place on the cross when Jesus took the punishment for our sins, so that we could be justified through his righteousness when we put faith in him.
We are justified (made right in God's sight) By grace through faith in Jesus...we are saved from condemnation. We are reborn (born of the spirit) and we are being sanctified (made holy), we are being saved from sin & its consequence (ongoing)...and we will be saved from wrath. We are secure in our salvation...He keeps us in our faith. If someone says they are a believer and then becomes an unbeliever...we know that they were never really a believer.

1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

James didn't see it that way. He states "can THAT faith save"? Faith seems to require a modifier before it is considered salvific. You just can't say "faith alone" and presume it is "good enough" in God's eyes.

That is the ordinary way, according to James. I don't see Paul contradicting that, if we consider that Paul is speaking about earning salvation through works/actions. We are saved apart from legalism. But he is pretty clear that PROPER Torah following (which is loving God with our entire self, and our neighbor as ourself, from the heart) is a requirement to enter the Kingdom.

That's the KEY point of both James and Paul. I don't see the need to wrestle over whether the chicken came first or the egg. Or whether we can have the chicken without the egg. Both are from God. We cannot generate EITHER by ourselves and bring forth salvation. Thus, the argument, to me, is not worth getting worked up over. It CERTAINLY is not the "center of the Gospel", as some of our classic separated brothers have claimed. What is important is that we cannot earn salvation. Stop. End!

Take care and have a good weekend.

Regards

I have a few questions for you. I am a little confused. You say that we can't earn salvation. Then you say we need works to make our faith slavific & that you do works to enter his kingdom (along with faith)....how is this not earning salvation? If you must do these works for salvation & in order to enter the kingdom of heaven...how is that not doing works to earn salvation? Also, how is it that you agree that we are saved by faith 'apart from' works, yet works are 'a part of' our salvation...they are either 'a part of' our salvation or they are 'apart from' our salvation...which is it? Do you think that maybe you are the one trying to have it both ways, or am I missing something?

 

[Butch5]

I would call you attention to the following passage:

Acts 26 NASB
16 'But get up and stand on your feet; for this purpose I have appeared to you, to appoint you a minister and a witness not only to the things which you have seen, but also to the things in which I will appear to you;
17 rescuing you from the Jewish people and from the Gentiles, to whom I am sending you,
18 to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'
​

This is the Greek hagiazo as defined in the previous post, and Jesus is clearly saying here that those who have faith in Him are sanctified -- set apart, made holy, consecrated to God. I can't argue with the Lord. If I were to adopt your view, I'd be forced to believe that I am not guaranteed heaven, and the Bible quite clearly teaches that I am, based on my faith, and that alone. Faith + nothing = salvation.

Not only does it not guarantee heaven, it doesn't even promise heaven. There is nothing in Scripture that teaches Christians go to Heaven. There is also nothing in Scripture that teaches that salvation is by faith alone. The only passage of Scripture that speaks of faith alone says that a man is "Not" justified by faith alone. If one can't be justified by faith alone, they surely can't be saved by faith alone. The passage you've quoted here says nothing of a guarantee that one who is set apart will ultimately be saved.

 

[Butch5]

The phases of salvation are a process. The guarantee and surety of our salvation, and the salvation to come, is the Holy Spirit. As long as you have faith, the faith that solicits the Holy Spirit, and continue in that faith, you have the surety of your salvation now, and the guarantee of your salvation on the Day of Wrath.

"21 Now it is God who makes both us and you stand firm in Christ. He anointed us, 22 set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." (2 Corinthians 1:21-22 NIV)

"13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14 who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory." (Ephesians 1:13-14 NIV)

One only has surety as long as they believe. However, no knows the future.

 

[Butch5]

Agree. Too many people think they are of the specific predestined elect, when we can't possibly know that until we are standing before the judgment seat...

Regards

Yeah, it seems clear to me from the Scriptures that it is a process.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Not only does it not guarantee heaven, it doesn't even promise heaven.

I beg to differ. By His statement that they "receive an forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me," what exactly to you think He is talking about? The inheritance we receive in Christ is salvation, and He plainly states then and there that those who have faith in Him receive it. If you choose not to see that, or believe, it's not my problem.

 

[Butch5]

I beg to differ. By His statement that they "receive an forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me," what exactly to you think He is talking about? The inheritance we receive in Christ is salvation, and He plainly states then and there that those who have faith in Him receive it. If you choose not to see that, or believe, it's not my problem.

No, the inheritance is not salvation, it is the land promised to Abraham.

7 And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God. (Gen 17:7-8 KJV)

David prophesied the words of Christ in Psalm 2

6 Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.

7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. (Psa 2:6-8 KJV)

However, receiving forgiveness of sins doesn't guarantee one will be saved in the end. At baptism one is forgiven of their past sins, not future sins. So, future sins are something one must contend with.

 

[francisdesales]

I beg to differ. By His statement that they "receive an forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me," what exactly to you think He is talking about? The inheritance we receive in Christ is salvation, and He plainly states then and there that those who have faith in Him receive it. If you choose not to see that, or believe, it's not my problem.

People can lose their inheritance when they throw it away. NO ONE who commits murder and a long list of other sins, unrepentented for, shall enter the Kingdom. Not even Christians. God plays no favorites, Paul tells us this in Romans.

Regards