Is belief "works"?

[savedbygrace57]

carolyn

How can you use a name like SAVED BY GRACE when you believe you are saved by
works?

Thats a false accusation, provide one quote of mine where I stated one is saved by works !

 

[Mike]

carolyn



Thats a false accusation, provide one quote of mine where I stated one is saved by works !

First of all, I don't appreciate you entering this discussion and churning up hostility where there was none. Please refrain from such emotion going forward.

Then, explain this to me if you will.

Acts 2
"38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."


It seems your premise flies in the face of Peter's conviction here and everywhere that scripture says to confess, repent and be baptized. If this is somehow a "work", it would appear that we are saved by works. Since we're not saved by works, this must not be a "work".


I look forward to your response... in a courteous manner, of course.

 

[CORE]

It's really simple....

Philippians 1:6
"For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus."

 

[dadof10]

edward



Thats where you wrong, belief is a work period. The word for work is ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Believing is an act, a deed, a thing done. It is accomplished by the mind, therefore its a work. You believe a person is saved because of that, then you teach contrary to scripture because man is not saved by works !

You cannot call believing a work then turn around and deny it is a work ! Thats contradiction !

I agree that faith is a "work" according to the definition you posted, however, the question is, is this PAUL'S definition of "works"? In other words, when Paul mentions "works" does he have in mind "an act, deed, thing done", or is he referring to something specific? I think the latter.

In every one of his "faith vs. works" passages, works is in the DIRECT CONTEXT of "works of the law", or specifically circumcision. The dynamic of Gentile acceptance into the post-messianic Church was the first real challenge to the early Church. In Acts 15 the question of Gentile CIRCUMCISION led to the first council. This is Paul's main focus in his letters and the meaning behind the word "works". Of course, this also means that Paul does not teach sola-fide, but that's another thread. ;)

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

James 2:14 Faith alone is dead without the "right" works! what works are you speaking of? the law of moses Works or the law Of Liberty Works(Christ)?

James 2:14 What good is it my brothers,if a man(not a brother,unbeliever) says he has faith, but does not have the works? Can that faith save him? No it can not!

whos the man in this verse? He is not a brother! some one who has the wrong faith!

In James 2:10 James describes this man as a man who has FAITH in the law of Moses, thus He has not done the "works" of the law of liberty.

What are the works that this man has to do? He has to do the works of the Law of liberty(Christ) so He can have a saving faith!

James describes the works in James 1:22 but be doers of the word pertaining to the Law of Liberty(Christ) James 1:25

So what are the works of the law of Liberty(Christ)? a doer of the word in James 1:22

A doer of the word in the Law of liberty does the will of the Father. Matt. 7:21 Is the doer of the word(the right works) The Law of Liberty(Christ)

So this man in James 2:14(who does not have the right faith) must be a doer of the word, James 1:22, this man must do "works" in the Law of Liberty James 1:25 and to have the right "works" he must do the will of the Father pertaining to the Law of Liberty(Christ) Matt. 7:21.

So what is the will of the Father pertaining to the Law of Liberty(Christ)?

John 6:40 For this is the will of my Father(Law of Liberty, James 1:25) that EVERYONE who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have ETERNAL life, and I will raise him up on the last days.

My friend this is the only work James is talking about in his whole epistle when it comes to some one with a true saving faith. James is just stamping in stone what Paul preached, Faith alone in Christ alone is the only "work" we can do.

Romans 3:28 For we hold that one is justified by faith(Law of Liberty, James 1:25) APART from the works of the law(law of Moses, James 2:10)

Christ took the OT out of the way, Col 2:14 Heb 10:9 so OT laws as circumcision, animal sacrifices, etc cannot save.
Obedient works of Christ's NT as belieivng, repenting of sins, confessing with the mouth and submitting to water baptism do save, Jn 8:24 Lk 13:3-5 Matt 10:32-33 Mk 16:16
James is talking about obedient works and obedience to God's NT (working righteousness Acts 10:35) does save.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I
I was saved when I believed and repented, but I had not yet confessed publicly, not had I been baptized. These things followed after I had confessed my sins to God, accepted His forgiveness, made restitution and completely read the New Testament. I was a young teenager who had never heard a salvation message, had never heard inspired preaching, but who knew the hymn Jesus Loves Me. I was in a very liberal Christian Church with a legalistic pastor who beat his wife and abused his children by burning them. But they had taken every mention of the Trinity out of their hymnals because they couldn,t find the word in the Bible.

You posted "I was saved when I believed and repented, but I had not yet confessed publicly, not had I been baptized."

You say you believed and repented and was saved. This is not belief only but belief and repentance.

In Rom 10:9,10 Paul wrote "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." This passage wlong with Matt 10:32-33 make confession a necessity before on can be saved for one cannot be saved while denying Christ. From Acts 2:38 baptism is for remission of sins/salvation and the order of the verse puts baptism BEFORE salvation not after. So one cannot be saved before they have had their sins remitted/saved.....one cannot be saved before they have been saved (before sin are remitted)

This thread is about belief being a work and the bible ties belief/faith so closely, strongly and tightly to works that that tie cannot be broken so that is why faith is said to be a work. And it is why faith/belief only cannot save.

Faith saves "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God" Eph 2:8 Rom 3:28 Rom 5:1 etc all show that faith saves and not faith only saves.

Therefore one must first have faith in order to be saved for no one is saved in unbelief, Jn 3:18 Rom 11:20 Heb 3:19 etc.

Not only does the bible NOT say faith only saves but the bible tells us other things than faith saves:

Repentance saves "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish." Lk 13:3,5 along with Acts 2:38 Acts 11:18 2 Pet 3:9

One is in a state where he is perishing and remains in that lost state until he first repents. Jesus did not say repent because you are already are saved. In Acts 11:18 Paul said "repentance unto life" and NOT repentance because you are already are saved. So these verses put repentance BEFORE salvation.


Confession saves "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Along with Matt 10:32-33

If one does not confess he will be denying Christ and will be denied by Christ before God so one remains in a lost state until he confesses. Paul said in Rom 10:10 "confession is made unto salvation" not confession is made because one is already saved. So the bible puts confession BEFORE salvation and one remains lost until he confesses.


Baptism saves "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost." along with Mk 16:16 and 1 Pet 3:21

So if we take ALL that Christ's NT says that saves we find nothing remotely saying faith only saves but that faith saves, repentance saves, confession saves, baptism saves among other things the bible says saves as the engrafted word, grace, the blood of Christ, hope.

How anyone can ever reach the conclusion that faith only saves is beyond me when the bible says many things save. And since there is just one way to be saved, then we can know:

Faith/belief ------------------------>saves
repentance------------------------->saves
confesson-------------------------->saves
baptism---------------------------->saves

Since there is one way to be saved, no alternatives, then faith/belief MUST, MUST include repentance, confession and baptism. There is no way around it unless people deny or ignore all the passages that say repentance saves, confession saves, baptism saves. Therefore faith only cannot save for it excludes or is void of all the other components that save those being repentance, confession and baptism. And the bible makes repentance, confession and baptism just as necessary to salvation as faith/belief. They are not one whit less important or essential to salvation than faith/belief. So it's easy to see the unbreakable bond/chain that ties faith/belief to the obedient works of repentance, confessing with the mouth and submitting to baptism.


Some inevitably will offer up "faith only saves, then one does the works of repenting, confessing and being baptized to show that they have been saved". But the bible does not teach such for as I showed above, the bible puts repentance, confession and baptism BEFORE salvaton, UNTO salvation not after salvation.

Again from Lk 13:3,5 one is in a state of perishing until he repents and remains lost until he repents. Nowhere does the bible teach one is saved while still lost in his unrepented sins. Nowhere does the bible teach one is saved while he is denying Christ, Matt 10:32,33 that is, he is saved BEFORE he confesses Christ with the mouth. Nowhere does the bible say one is saved while still lost in his unremitted sins, for baptism comes BEFORE sins are remitted, Acts 2:38 Christ died for mankind to allow mankind a way out of his sins, so if man can be saved while still in his unremitted sins then Christ died for nothing.

So the tie that binds faith/belief to repentance, confession and baptism is unbreakable, unavoidable, undeniable, for they are a part of a biblical, viable, living, saving faith/belief.

 

[JCitoL]

Why is belief,considered by some, a "work" before regeneration?....

the wrong belief in the faith is more or less a sin, of course we testify this without judging any human, because the purpose therein is if any believer sins then it to be persuaded to repent

Hebrews 6:7-9 "Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.",

Matthew 18:15 "Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother."

Blessings

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Faith is purely a gift of
God as is repentance)..... BUt it is all His doing,

If I can only receive faith and repentance as a gift from God, and if I was faithless and unrepentant whose fault would that be?

It must be God's fault for failing to give me faith and repentance and it could not be my fault for you have put having faith and repentance out of my own ability.

 

[Webb]

Jesus said: "I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish", Luke 13:3. Jesus said: "--for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins" Jn.8:24. If faith and repentance are gifts from God, and if God gives those gifts (?) to some and not to others, God therefore, is responsible for those not receiving those gifts (?) being lost, perishing, dying in their sins. "FOR THERE IS NO RESPECT OF PERSONS WITH GOD", Romans 2:11.

 

[Kaileymarie]

This is at the heart of the matter. I would contend something subtle but very different than you. I would say obedience is perfected by faith, and faith is established by the Lord. Me working at my obedience will produce nothing good. It is Him working within me that accounts for any fruits others see.

2 Corinthians 12
"9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more
gladly about my weaknesses, so that Christ’s power may rest on me. 10 That is why, for Christ’s sake, I delight in
weaknesses, in insults, in hardships, in persecutions, in difficulties. For when I am weak, then I am strong."

Could it be both? Or is that "illogical"?

Im new at this so forgive me if I'm totally off, but i feel like obedience is perfected by faith because the stronger your faith the more you want to obey, and also faith is perfected by obedience in the sense that the more you see the fruit of your works the stronger your faith will become.

 

[heymikey80]

Actually it is Hos 6:7 and not all translations translate the word "Adam" (although I do agree the word is more properly translated "Adam")

* * *
and as Butch5 said in an earlier post, if one is to call this single command a "works covenant" then, well Ill just re quote Butch5:

I would think that the citation of Adam's relationship with God being agreeable to the term "covenant", there's little else to say. The single command is not a covenant on it's own, but it's clearly a stipulation of a covenant. This covenant seems to constitute God's relationship of life with Adam. When it was violated, the condemnation of the violation was to revoke Adam's life, as God first stated and then executed.

The issue is, pretty clearly, Adam performs in order to continue life in the Garden.

None of the commands of Jesus declare this quid-pro-quo agreement the way it appears in Genesis. In fact most are completely backwards from it. Most are either direct commands, or are statements like, "If you love me you will do what I command." The basis for following Christ's commands are thus not based on continued life, but on love above life.

 

[heymikey80]

Salvation is by faith not by faith alone. Faith alone is dead being void of works, so how can a dead faith save?

A dead faith is no more faith than a dead man is any more a man. It's a shell without a spirit.

Martin Luther had to add the word 'only' to Rom 3:28 in his translation in order to make it read what he wished it had said: 'faith only'. The word "only" is not in any known Greek manuscripts. If Luther had to change and add to God's word to get it to teach his theology then instead of changing the bible Luther needed to change his theology.

Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. 28 For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. Rom 3:27-28 ESV

 

[gr8grace]

Christ took the OT out of the way, Col 2:14 Heb 10:9 so OT laws as circumcision, animal sacrifices, etc cannot save.
Obedient works of Christ's NT as belieivng, repenting of sins, confessing with the mouth and submitting to water baptism do save, Jn 8:24 Lk 13:3-5 Matt 10:32-33 Mk 16:16
James is talking about obedient works and obedience to God's NT (working righteousness Acts 10:35) does save.

I agree with the old is out.

Jn 8:24 I agree....but it does not say, You shall die if you are not water baptized, you shall die if you dont confess me out loud, you shall die if you dont repent from ALL of your sins.
its just believe Jn 16:9

Lk 13:3-5 look at the context. These were jews that were relying on the, now catch this, old covenant sacrifices!( good moral people but they believed the wrong thing about their sacrifices) And notice how Jesus lumped them in with ALL the other sinners! repent of what you think about the Christ is what he was telling these jews. These were good upstanding jews and Christ lumped them in with everybody else. Because its all about the Christ.

Matt 10:32-33 Jesus is talking about teachers but it pertains to all believers. You have to acknowledge the RIGHT Christ. Matt 7:21 Anybody who is running around proclaiming Christ but not the right things about Him, is not Acknowledging The Christ. If it is Christ + something else we are not acknowledging Christ and we will be denied Matt 7:21 and the will of the Father is Jn 6:40

Mk 16:16 Notice that its just belief for damnation. The spirits Baptism is the real baptism( water baptism is just an Identification with Christ) its just belief mentioned in this verse because that is how we get the Spirits(saving) baptism.

James does not say "obedient works" He says The Law Of Liberty James 1:25 James mentions this specifically because He knew that false teachers and Christians would add their own works to the works that James was mentioning. Gal 2:4 Gal 5:1

 

[Davies]

Good evening,

Faith and works are two different things, and even if you were to try to define faith as a work, faith is a work of God, not of you.

Romans 12:3

New King James Version (NKJV)

Serve God with Spiritual Gifts

3 For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.


If we take Romans 4, the whole chapter is about imputed righteousness, or the difference between the results of work and faith.

Romans 4:20-22

New King James Version (NKJV)

20 He did not waver at the promise of God through unbelief, but was strengthened in faith, giving glory to God, 21 and being fully convinced that what He had promised He was also able to perform. 22 And therefore “it was accounted to him for righteousness.”

Here we see Abraham believed that God was able to perform, and it was accounted to him as righteousness. Abraham was not accounted to be righteous for any work he did, rather he was accounted righteous because he believed what God could do. God is doing the work, man should be doing the believing.

Romans 4:5

New King James Version (NKJV)

David Celebrates the Same Truth

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,

- Davies

 

[gr8grace]

First of all, I don't appreciate you entering this discussion and churning up hostility where there was none. Please refrain from such emotion going forward.

Then, explain this to me if you will.

Acts 2
"38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” 40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, “Save yourselves from this corrupt generation.” 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day."


It seems your premise flies in the face of Peter's conviction here and everywhere that scripture says to confess, repent and be baptized. If this is somehow a "work", it would appear that we are saved by works. Since we're not saved by works, this must not be a "work".


I look forward to your response... in a courteous manner, of course.

Mike I will explain that to you, but you need to be in the spirit and not use the religion that you know to interpret this verse.

And the quote you used from carolyn does not seem like anything different from some of the other quotes ive seen here!

Acts is a transition book. we go from Peter to Paul. Jews to Gentiles.

Its very simple actually Peter was a forshadow to Pauls teaching to the Church. Peter still didnt know the mystery that Paul was going to reveal to the Church. Eph 3:9-10

Everything Peter "showed to the Jews" was a forshadow of the mystery Paul was Going to have revealed to him. Eph 3:3

Peter didnt know this mystery at the time 2 Pet 3:15-16

But Peter was showing by example to the Jews that the Spirit was going to baptize when a person believed on Christ.

Peters water baptism symbolized Pauls Holy spirit baptism.

Peters repent of sin symbolized Pauls repent from unbelief ( but if you look close to all the texts its always just repent of your unbelief) Jn 16:9

Paul taught Liberty and so did Peter its Just with Peter Jews always needed signs and someone to follow. Thats why its so hard for religion and Jews to believe that its JUST belief. Jn 16:9

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

I agree with the old is out.

Jn 8:24 I agree....but it does not say, You shall die if you are not water baptized, you shall die if you dont confess me out loud, you shall die if you dont repent from ALL of your sins.
its just believe Jn 16:9

One must believe BEFORE he can be saved. In Mk 16:16 the order of the verse is belief before baptism and baptism before salvation. An unbelieving person therefore cannot be baptized and is lost.

Lk 13:3-5 look at the context. These were jews that were relying on the, now catch this, old covenant sacrifices!( good moral people but they believed the wrong thing about their sacrifices) And notice how Jesus lumped them in with ALL the other sinners! repent of what you think about the Christ is what he was telling these jews. These were good upstanding jews and Christ lumped them in with everybody else. Because its all about the Christ.

Lk 13:3,5 Jesus is simpy saying repent or be lost. There is no salvation for the unrepentant, Jew or Gentile, therefore one must repent of his sins BEFORE he can be saved. A biblical belief must include repentance.

Matt 10:32-33 Jesus is talking about teachers but it pertains to all believers. You have to acknowledge the RIGHT Christ. Matt 7:21 Anybody who is running around proclaiming Christ but not the right things about Him, is not Acknowledging The Christ. If it is Christ + something else we are not acknowledging Christ and we will be denied Matt 7:21 and the will of the Father is Jn 6:40

Jesus is simply saying one must confess Christ before men else He will deny that person before God. One therefore is denying Christ and lost until he confesses. As Paul said in Rom 10:9-10 one confesses UNTO salvation meaning no confessing no salvation. So a true saving belief must include confession with the mouth

Mk 16:16 Notice that its just belief for damnation. The spirits Baptism is the real baptism( water baptism is just an Identification with Christ) its just belief mentioned in this verse because that is how we get the Spirits(saving) baptism.

Mk 16:16 is a compound sentence. Mk 16:16a deals with salvation and if one desires to be saved he must believe AND be baptized. Believe is connected to baptized by the conjunction 'and' making baptism of equal importance and necessity as believing. Mk 16:16b deals with condemnation and all one has to do to be condemned is just not believe. One does not have to both not believe and not be baptized to be lost for simple unbelief is all it takes to be lost.

In Mk 16:16a Jesus made beleif a prerequsite to being baptized therefore an unbeliever cannot be scripturally baptized. So when Jesus said "he that believeth not" that phrase automatically includes not being baptized since baptism is not possible if one does not believe.

James does not say "obedient works" He says The Law Of Liberty James 1:25 James mentions this specifically because He knew that false teachers and Christians would add their own works to the works that James was mentioning. Gal 2:4 Gal 5:1

James used Abraham as an example of obedience to God and Abraham was justifed by those obeident works did just as we today are justified by our obedience to God's NT gospel. In Rom 6:16-18 Paul said the Romans obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, being then made free from sins (justified). So as Abraham's obedience to God justified him the Roman's obedience to that form of doctrine (submitting to water baptized) justified them.

 

[savedbygrace57]

dad

I agree that faith is a "work" according to the definition you posted,
however, the question is, is this PAUL'S definition of "works"?

Its God's Definition ! Paul was merely inspired to write what God wanted Him to.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Peter still didnt know the mystery that Paul was going to reveal to the Church. Eph 3:9-10

Eph 3:5 "Which (mystery of Christ) in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;"

 

[gr8grace]

One must believe BEFORE he can be saved. In Mk 16:16 the order of the verse is belief before baptism and baptism before salvation. An unbelieving person therefore cannot be baptized and is lost.




Lk 13:3,5 Jesus is simpy saying repent or be lost. There is no salvation for the unrepentant, Jew or Gentile, therefore one must repent of his sins BEFORE he can be saved. A biblical belief must include repentance.



Jesus is simply saying one must confess Christ before men else He will deny that person before God. One therefore is denying Christ and lost until he confesses. As Paul said in Rom 10:9-10 one confesses UNTO salvation meaning no confessing no salvation. So a true saving belief must include confession with the mouth



Mk 16:16 is a compound sentence. Mk 16:16a deals with salvation and if one desires to be saved he must believe AND be baptized. Believe is connected to baptized by the conjunction 'and' making baptism of equal importance and necessity as believing. Mk 16:16b deals with condemnation and all one has to do to be condemned is just not believe. One does not have to both not believe and not be baptized to be lost for simple unbelief is all it takes to be lost.

In Mk 16:16a Jesus made beleif a prerequsite to being baptized therefore an unbeliever cannot be scripturally baptized. So when Jesus said "he that believeth not" that phrase automatically includes not being baptized since baptism is not possible if one does not believe.




James used Abraham as an example of obedience to God and Abraham was justifed by those obeident works did just as we today are justified by our obedience to God's NT gospel. In Rom 6:16-18 Paul said the Romans obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine, being then made free from sins (justified). So as Abraham's obedience to God justified him the Roman's obedience to that form of doctrine (submitting to water baptized) justified them.

Ernest,

I know I am not going to change your mind. But you are reading into those verses what you want them to say.

Those jews in Luke 13:3-5 were relying on their sacrifices! they were not SINNING they were following the Old Law and not the Law of Liberty! They had to repent of what they thought of the Christ. they needed to change their mind about their sacrifice! and Christ lumped them in with some of the worlds worst sinners! There is only one way out. Repent of your unbelief.

And with what you are posting here you are not acknowledging Christ to the readers(men) You are not presenting the true and only Christ. you are saying that it is Jesus + something Matt 7:21

Mark 16:16 is a compound sentence but the compound is The Holy Spirit baptism. Eph 1:13

And again in Rom 10:1-2 we get the context... Paul is talking about his fellow(zealous LOUD) country men the Jews who were professing loudly one God, They were professing with their mouths the wrong knowledge, They were not running around sinning, they were confessing the wrong knowledge, the wrong confession of salvation. They still had not repented of their unbelief in Christ. Its the same thing as Luke 13:1-5

Abraham was Justified by the Law of liberty works James 1:25
You are adding obedient works NOT James.

Isaac was a type of Christ, and history says that Abraham and Isaac were on the same mount as the Cross. Abraham knew exactly What he Had to believe to be counted as righteous. And His works pointed to the law of Liberty in James. Christ. James 2:21-23 Notice that Abraham Did not carry out the "works", Because Abraham believed and God did the "work" Himself. That is GRACE.

For the most part I see religion all over this site and very few Grace believers. And the world promotes religion, and God Promotes Grace. And religion will try its darndest to Antagonize Grace, because the kingdom of darkness hates Grace!

I wish you could see Grace for what it truly is. And I mean that. I used to come on and want to pick a fight, but I see so many people in Bondage it just breaks my heart anymore. And to think that there are future readers that are going to have to look pretty long and hard for a Grace message from someone on this site.

But God put me here for someone, and it probably is for that future reader who wants to make a choice.

They get to choose Grace and joy and freedom.

Or religion, law, a soaking, And repenting of all their sins and coming to a point that all the Joy is gone and realizing they could never do it all. And someone will always be better or doing more then themselves.

For any future readers . Jesus died for sinners, I am a sinner and He died for me. That is me coming to my savior. And He promised to save anyone that acknowledges Him as so. That is Grace my friend. and that is GOOD news.

 

[gr8grace]

Eph 3:5 "Which (mystery of Christ) in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;"

Yep, I spoke wrong there i take that back.