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Is belief "works"?

Here is my problem if man cant believe:

God in His just sovereignty condemned all men. Rom. 5:18 Gal 3:22 . God Justly condemned all men, we deserve it, but He did it out of Love for mankind. He imprisoned us all under the scriptures so he could make us ALL objects of salvation. If he left ONE man out he would be unjust.

He imprisoned us ALL under the scripture, so the scripture is the only way out for us ALL. He based this on His character and nature, not on mans.

Psalm 9:8 and he JUDGES the world with righteousness and He JUDGES the peoples with uprightness
Rom 1:17 in it (salvation) the righteousness of God is revealed FROM faith For faith.
Psalm 99:4 the King in His might(sovereignty) loves justice. You have established EQUITY;
Psalm 75:2
Psalm 97:2
Psalm 96:13
Psalm 98:9

Prov 1:23-25 IF(IF) you TURN at my reproof, behold, I will pour out my Spirit to you; I will make my words known to you. Because I have called (scripture) and you REFUSED to listen, have stretched out my hand and no one has heeded, because you have IGNORED all my counsel and would have none of my reproof.

If God let me believe and withheld that ability from anyone else He would be unjust.

There is not ONE scripture in the entire bible that clearly says God JUDGES men out of sovereignty. And saying that He does is an attack on His character and nature.
 
Edward said:
So we're in agreement then. ;)
Click to expand...

How so ? Salvation by works is false, one is saved by Grace through Faith, not of works ! Eph 2:8-9



8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast

If you teach that a person is saved because they made a choice, thats a work of theirs and contradicts the above scripture !:)
 
jar

God in His just sovereignty condemned all men. Rom.
5:18
 Gal
3:22
 . God Justly condemned all men, we deserve it
Click to expand...

The men Christ died for God condemned Christ in their behalf, so they never came under condemnation legally, Christ did for them ! Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.


If God let me believe and withheld that ability from anyone else He would be
unjust.
Click to expand...

You just called God unjust then because He does just that, He gives some the ability to believe and some He does not ! Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
 
edward

Man is not saved by works of Law
Click to expand...

Man is not saved by works period. Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.


Rom 11:5-6

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Believing is a Work !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
jar



The men Christ died for God condemned Christ in their behalf, so they never came under condemnation legally, Christ did for them ! Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.




You just called God unjust then because He does just that, He gives some the ability to believe and some He does not ! Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Click to expand...

So you Dont believe?! how are you personally saved then?
 
Yeah just keep reading, Rom 4:16 explains why the lord will not impute that sin to a man.

As to Matt 13:11 you have to keep reading also, Matt 13:15 For this peoples heart has grown dull,and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, LEST they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and TURN, and I would heal them.

So your answer makes no sense.
 
jk

Yeah just keep reading, Rom
4:16 explains why the lord will not impute that sin to a man.
Click to expand...

I already know why He does not impute sin to some men, its because He has already imputed it to Christ for Him to die in their place. He cannot impute sin on any Christ died for or He would be guilty of imputing it Twice !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
jar



The men Christ died for God condemned Christ in their behalf, so they never came under condemnation legally, Christ did for them ! Rom 4:8

8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.




You just called God unjust then because He does just that, He gives some the ability to believe and some He does not ! Matt 13:11

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Click to expand...

Show me the scripture that says God only condemned some men. Rom 11:32 Rom 5:12 Rom 5:18 Gal 3:22

This is just silly to me and I truly cant understand that you think that I am calling God unjust,when you say that He gives a man physical life with no way out of His predicament and then sends Him to Hell. Your god is unjust.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
This is not about me, you need to deal with the scripture I used and you quoted. You quoted it then evaded it !
Click to expand...

You will see that I did ,sorry it was a quick reply. In all honesty you never dealt with any of the scripture I quoted when you replied to it.

And sir it is About you, your eternal destiny hangs in the balance if you have your soteriology wrong. If you think you have a free ride because God elected you and God says that you have to believe on His Son. the consequences are eternal for you personally.
 
edward

No. I am saying that we are saved by grace through faith. But belief is a
work of sorts, just not in the traditional sense of the term
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Thats where you wrong, belief is a work period. The word for work is ergon and means:

business, employment, that which any one is occupied
a) that which one undertakes to do, enterprise, undertaking

2) any product whatever, any thing accomplished by hand, art, industry, or mind

3) an act, deed, thing done: the idea of working is emphasised in opp. to that which is less than work

Believing is an act, a deed, a thing done. It is accomplished by the mind, therefore its a work. You believe a person is saved because of that, then you teach contrary to scripture because man is not saved by works !

You cannot call believing a work then turn around and deny it is a work ! Thats contradiction !
 
Agape said:
Who is "them" and why was knowledge concealed?
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Mk 4:11


And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Its concealed because It seemeth good in God's Sight Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Mk 4:11


And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

Its concealed because It seemeth good in God's Sight Matt 11:25-26

25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
Click to expand...
Agreed but what I meant is what have they done to deserve that? This hiding of the truth was a judgment for unbelief, as happened during Isaiah's ministry (Is. 6:9-10).
Jesus revealed the truth to the faithful but concealed it from those who rejected Him.
 
Agreed but what I meant is what have they done to deserve that?
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They are sinners !

This hiding of the truth was a judgment for unbelief
Click to expand...

No it was'nt. They could not believe because it was hid !
 
How can you use a name like SAVED BY GRACE when you believe you are saved by works?
Yours claims make no sense, either.
While Jesus was speaking to the Jews they were all still under the law of the old covenant.
The New Covenant had not yet been ratified by His blood.
PLease support whatever it is you are trying to say using quotations from after the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Most of the protestant church believes that salvation by works is a herecy. What church supports your position?
 
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