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Is believing/faith a work ?

If faith that saves or justifies before God was of ourselves it would give occasion to boast, which is contrary to being saved by grace through faith Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:88

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
 
As I have heard and accepted the gift of my own free will, turned from sin, gotten baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, been reborn, and cast off the flesh, I still need to endure faithfully till the end to be saved.
Jesus said..."But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." (Matt 24:13)
Your message excludes that.
Again you advocate works Salvation, by your own merit.
 
Your point is moot.
The works Paul taught against were the works of the Law.
As he wrote..."Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified." (Gal 2:16)
Even in this verse Paul believed in Jesus Christ "that we might be justified".
Which came first?
His belief or his justification?
You continue to advocate works salvation, totally against the scripture of truth.
 
You are implying that God's seed can occasionally bring forth the fruit of the devil.

I‘m saying what the scripture says.

Are you aware that our physical body still has the propensity to desire sin?


Christians who follow the desires of the flesh to gratify there lustful cravings, will nor remain “in Christ”, nor will they inherit the kingdom of God.


I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16



Do you believe Paul was speaking this to Christians or Non Christians?





JLB
 
The guy on the cross next to Jesus was a criminal who according to his own words was getting what he deserved. He reached out by faith to Jesus and received eternal life.

The thief on the cross repented and obeyed the Gospel.





JLB
 
I‘m saying what the scripture says.
This is written..."Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." (1 John 3:9)
God's seed cannot bring forth the fruit of the devil.
Are you aware that our physical body still has the propensity to desire sin?
No.
My arms and legs have no thought processes.
The mind handles everything before the arms and legs can do anything.
Christians who follow the desires of the flesh to gratify there lustful cravings, will nor remain “in Christ”, nor will they inherit the kingdom of God.
Christians have crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Better said by you would have been..."Men who follow..."
I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16
True.
Men can't walk in both.
Christians walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh.
Thanks be to God.
Do you believe Paul was speaking this to Christians or Non Christians?
He was "talking to" everyone.
His words help men to delineate who is in Christ and who is not.
Those who wish to walk in the Spirit will find out how to crucify the flesh and be raised again, with Christ, to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4-6)
 
The thief on the cross repented and obeyed the Gospel.





JLB
Its called "Faith". He simply asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into His kingdom. That's all that was shown. Jesus forgave His sins according to His favorable reply.

Hence the question, "What work did he do to have his sins forgiven?"
 
No.
My arms and legs have no thought processes.
The mind handles everything before the arms and legs can do anything.

Well what about the urge to eat? The urge for procreation. That's all in the flesh, granted, but can't so easily stop your stomach from telling you, hey I want a cheeseburger right now.

Technically speaking, we think in our carnal minds and we think in our heart. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.

In fact the heat has a greater thinking capacity than the brain does and they measure it's capacity and so forth. This comes from a site called HeartMath and you can get lost on that site for days! Good stuff, backs up scripture.
 
He was "talking to" everyone.
His words help men to delineate who is in Christ and who is not.
Those who wish to walk in the Spirit will find out how to crucify the flesh and be raised again, with Christ, to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4-6)

Not true. Paul wrote his letters to Churches, not to the world.

Paul constantly had to teach and admonish Gentile Christians, not to live as sinners and to put away their old sinful habits.

This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind, having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
But you have not so learned Christ, if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt according to the deceitful lusts, and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness.
Ephesians 4:17-24


again


Therefore, putting away lying, “Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor,” for we are members of one another. “Be angry, and do not sin”: do not let the sun go down on your wrath, nor give place to the devil. Let him who stole steal no longer, but rather let him labor, working with his hands what is good, that he may have something to give him who has need. Ephesians 4:25-28


again


Therefore be imitators of God as dear children. And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us and given Himself for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling aroma.
But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:1-7


Paul is plainly warning these Christians to turn away from sin and immorality or they will be partakers of the wrath of God.



True.
Men can't walk in both.
Christians walk in the Spirit, and not in the flesh.
Thanks be to God.
He was "talking to" everyone.
His words help men to delineate who is in Christ and who is not.
Those who wish to walk in the Spirit will find out how to crucify the flesh and be raised again, with Christ, to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4-6)


Actually Christians are called to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking after the flesh.

Non Christians do not have the ability to walk in the Spirit.


Paul warned Christians that they must walk in the Spirit rather than the flesh. That they must learn to put on the new man, that is created in the image of God.


Our body still contains sin; the law of sin, sin nature, the old man.


We as Christian’s are called to live our life according to the new man, the new nature, that is in harmony with the desires of God, having been created according to God. This is the inward man, the new man, created in the image of Christ. Our soul must be renewed so that we can be transformed. This is not some “automatic“ operation but requires that we ourselves follow the leading of the Spirit, offering our body as a living sacrifice.


I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.


I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2


This is a process that takes time as we mature, and is not some one time thing that happens at water baptism, like some suppose, but rather it is a daily walk of crucifying the flesh, and walking according to the Spirit who dwells in our inner man.





JLB
 
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Its called "Faith". He simply asked Jesus to remember him when Jesus came into His kingdom. That's all that was shown. Jesus forgave His sins according to His favorable reply.

Hence the question, "What work did he do to have his sins forgiven?"

Yes agreed, Faith.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9


He confessed Jesus as Lord, and believed that He would rise from the dead and come into His Kingdom.


Then he said to Jesus, “Lord, remember me when You come into Your kingdom. Luke 23:42




JLB
 
Well what about the urge to eat? The urge for procreation. That's all in the flesh, granted, but can't so easily stop your stomach from telling you, hey I want a cheeseburger right now.
It isn't a sin to eat.
And if you're fasting...or starving, you don't eat anyway.
"Fleshly" urges can be subdued by the mind.
Especially a mind focused on Christ.
Technically speaking, we think in our carnal minds and we think in our heart. As a man thinks in his heart, so is he.
The reborn have no carnal mind.
It is written..."For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2:16)
In fact the heart has a greater thinking capacity than the brain does and they measure it's capacity and so forth. This comes from a site called HeartMath and you can get lost on that site for days! Good stuff, backs up scripture.
My heart pumps blood, and that is all it does.
The word "heart" can be interchanged with "mind", however.
If by "heart", you mean "mind".
So how can one out-anything the other?
 
Not true. Paul wrote his letters to Churches, not to the world.
And yet I was still in the world when I first read it.
Paul constantly had to teach and admonish Gentile Christians, not to live as sinners and to put away their old sinful habits.
The only epistle I see where Paul admonishes sinners is 1 Cor.
Any other admonishment is just guidance and exhortation...not to mention tools for leading others to Christ.
Paul is plainly warning these Christians to turn away from sin and immorality or they will be partakers of the wrath of God.
If they are Christians, they have already "turned from" sin.
The unrepentant are not in Christ, so, not Christians.
Actually Christians are called to walk in the Spirit, rather than walking after the flesh.
Non Christians do not have the ability to walk in the Spirit.
Agreed.
Paul warned Christians that they must walk in the Spirit rather than the flesh. That they must learn to put on the new man, that is created in the image of God.
Christ was "put on" at our baptism into Him. (Rom 6:3)
"For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ." (Gal 3:27)
Our body still contains sin; the law of sin, sin nature, the old man.
Were that true, 2 Cor 5:17 is wrong..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
"Old things are passed away".
"...all things are made new", including the nature.
We as Christian’s are called to live our life according to the new man, the new nature, that is in harmony with the desires of God, having been created according to God.
Agreed, and made possible by God at our rebirth from His seed.
This is the inward man, the new man, created in the image of Christ. Our soul must be renewed so that we can be transformed. This is not so “automatic“ operation but requires that we ourselves follow the leading of the Spirit, offering our body as a living sacrifice.
Sorry, but here we don't believe alike.
It is automatic for those who love God above all else and their neighbor as themselves. For those reborn of God's seed and indwelt with the Holy Ghost.
I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God. Romans 12:1-2
So do it.
Wasn't that easy?
This is a process that takes time as we mature, and is not some one time thing that happens at water baptism, like some suppose, but rather it is a daily walk of crucifying the flesh, and walking according to the Spirit who dwells in our inner man.
The only thing that should change after you have repented of sin and been reborn of Godly seed is growth in grace and knowledge.

I don't get where you find two men in you?
 
And yet I was still in the world when I first read it.

Great.

Anyone cane read what Paul wrote to the Churches.

The fact still remains Paul admonished Christians to walk according to the Spirit, so that, they would not fulfill the lustful cravings of the flesh.

Only Christians can do this.



JLB
 
The only epistle I see where Paul admonishes sinners is 1 Cor.

Not true.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13




JLB
 
If they are Christians, they have already "turned from" sin.
The unrepentant are not in Christ, so, not Christians.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7


Paul is plainly warning these Christians to turn away from sin and immorality or they will be partakers of the wrath of God.


  • Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.


Paul warns these Christians not to be partakers of the wrath of God with the sons of disobedience.






JLB
 
Sorry, but here we don't believe alike.
It is automatic for those who love God above all else and their neighbor as themselves. For those reborn of God's seed and indwelt with the Holy Ghost.

There is nothing “automatic” about the process of sanctification or transformation. It’s process of becoming.


But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12
 
Great.
Anyone can read what Paul wrote to the Churches.
Even those of the world.
The fact still remains Paul admonished Christians to walk according to the Spirit, so that, they would not fulfill the lustful cravings of the flesh.
Only Christians can do this.
Agreed.
But if an unbeliever reads it, they may find the way they were looking for in order to be made free of something or other.
Like addictions, in my case.
 
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Not true.

For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? But those who are outside God judges. 1 Corinthians 5:12-13
I thought for sure you would use some other epistle besides 1 Cor.
1 Cor. is where Paul got after the adulterer.
 
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