Is believing/faith a work ?

[Hopeful]

Christ perfectly achieved everything needed for salvation on the behalf of those He came to save and imputed it freely to them as a gift through grace. And as a gift, it can neither be earned nor purchased no matter how little or much a person attempts to - In fact, any attempt is in itself sin. His title is Saviour.
All true Christian attributes which a Christian may exhibit (to include the ones you mentioned above,) are from the fruit of the Spirit who is given upon becoming born-again. They continue growing in these attributes over the course of their lifetimes.

Your doctrine implies that those who won't be saved can blame Jesus for their condemnation.
If we don't have to do anything, it is His fault some won't be saved.

I can't abide by that.

 

[Hopeful]

How does their doctrine accomplish being an overcomer? (Rev 2:26, 3:21, 21:7, 1 John 5:4-5)
How does their doctrine accomplish making our Garments white? (Ecclesiastes 9:8)
How does their doctrine accomplish enduring to the end? (Matthew 24:13-15)

Those are pretty good questions, and thanks for posting the questions with chapter and verse numbers.
The answer is, however, their doctrine can't.
Not without our doing something.

 

[Hopeful]

Jhn 6:28
Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Jhn 6:29
Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Thanks for the OT message from the Christ.
Now, how about in the NT?
Do we still have to do the "work" of believing?

 

[Hopeful]

Through Christ and the Holy Spirit, how else? Certainly not by the will of man. That
is what put mankind into the predicament of death in the first place.

Isn't it your will to overcome, be made clean, and endure till the end?
God won't do those things if we don't want to.
But..."wanting" is a work according to some.
So we don't even have to want to be clean, washed of our sins, or endure for a week?

 

[Norman]

I stood there, in that church, just so someone would stop bugging me to go to church. I wanted to go home, get together with some girls and get high.
A guy read John 3:16 to me and wham, it was in my heart! I wasn't given the option to believe it, it just happened to me. I did nothing to believe it or receive it or anything else. It just happened to me.
That was in 1973 and I've never stopped believing it. I've often pondered why it was so different with me. Just thinking about it now, perhaps, it's because I'm a natural branch that was grafted back in. Maybe.

 

[Hopeful]

I've seen signs and wonders...
"And Jesus said to him, “‘If you can’! All things are possible for one who believes.” - Mark 9:23
"Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father." - John 14:12
I want to see more! I believe it to be an act of faith and obedience.
Lord, we need more of You...so this unbelieving generation will know beyond a shadow of a doubt that You are who You say You are, will see that they are sinners, will come to You and be saved! Amen!

Amen !
If we walk in the light, folks will see Christ in us.
If they are ashamed of the darkness they walk in, they will come to Christ too

 

[rogerg]

Your doctrine implies that those who won't be saved can blame Jesus for their condemnation.
If we don't have to do anything, it is His fault some won't be saved.

I can't abide by that.

I think you infer more than is appropriate.

[Rom 5:12, 15 KJV]
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: ...
15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Condemnation came by Adam unto all. God granted mercy to those whom He had so chosen.

The Bible informs us that God will not relinquish His prerogative to give salvation only to those whom He had so chosen. He is not under obligation to save anyone.

[Rom 9:13-16 KJV] 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Had it been within our power to remove condemnation from ourselves, why then the need of a Saviour? You do believe in Christ is the Saviour, don't you?

[Rom 5:16 KJV]
16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

[Rom 8:1 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

 

[Fastfredy0]

A work is the mental and/or physical exertion to accomplish a purpose. Thus, faith is a work.

Now the question is whose work is being done?
It was God's purpose the save those He chose before the creation of the earth. To do this He created the earth and man. God gave man a sin nature to cause him to be spiritually dead and thus incapable to save himself by faith willingly. Those God chose heard the gospel per God's ordination and were regenerated by God thus giving them anew nature. Now, spiritually alive those elected by God all willing believed without exception,, thus accomplishing God's work of glorifying himself, said glory He shares with no one. This totally accomplished by God through those appointed to eternal life through whom those chosen live, breathe and have their being. Man's sole role being the instrument made from dust that was used by Him to accomplish His eternal purpose.

All those billions who do not hear the gospel without exception being unable to save themselves being further evidence that God alone accomplishes the work necessary to save.

 

[Hopeful]

I think you infer more than is appropriate.

[Rom 5:12, 15 KJV]
12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: ...
15 But not as the offence, so also [is] the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, [which is] by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

Condemnation came by Adam unto all. God granted mercy to those whom He had so chosen.

The Bible informs us that God will not relinquish His prerogative to give salvation only to those whom He had so chosen. He is not under obligation to save anyone.

What percentage of the world do you suppose Jesus suffered and died for?
.0001%?
No, He suffered and died for all men; but it is up to us to accept it and His rules to live by.

[Rom 9:13-16 KJV] 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? [Is there] unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Had it been within our power to remove condemnation from ourselves, why then the need of a Saviour? You do believe in Christ is the Saviour, don't you?

Yes I do, and I heeded His and the apostle's words relating to repentance from sin and to being baptized into Jesus Christ, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins.
All "works", according to some.

[Rom 5:16 KJV]
16 And not as [it was] by one that sinned, [so is] the gift: for the judgment [was] by one to condemnation, but the free gift [is] of many offences unto justification.

[Rom 8:1 KJV]
1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Is walking "not after the flesh" a "work"?
Of course it is...to some
But not a work of the Law that Paul was against...and rightly so, as circumcision, dietary requirements and feast keeping cannot save anyone.

 

[rogerg]

What percentage of the world do you suppose Jesus suffered and died for?
.0001%?
No, He suffered and died for all men; but it is up to us to accept it and His rules to live by.

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-22 - 24 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Yes I do, and I heeded His and the apostle's words relating to repentance from sin and to being baptized into Jesus Christ, in the name of Jesus Christ, for the remission of past sins.
All "works", according to some.

Yes, indeed, works. Regarding salvation, anything not as a complete gift (from God), is a work.

Is walking "not after the flesh" a "work"?
Of course it is...to some
But not a work of the Law that Paul was against...and rightly so, as circumcision, dietary requirements and feast keeping cannot save anyone.

Because being "in Christ Jesus" is why they walk not after the flesh. The reverse is not true: that walking not after the flesh will place them in Christ Jesus

Anything that we do to try to acquire salvation is the work God through Paul had in view. If Christ is the Saviour, then as the Saviour, He must have done EVERYTHING necessary for the salvation of those He had chosen for such. Was anything needed for salvation missing from/in His offering? This is the "rest" that Christ has provided to those He has saved

 

[rogerg]

What percentage of the world do you suppose Jesus suffered and died for?
.0001%?

sorry I should have included this in my prior reply:

As far as I know God doesn't inform us of the number of people He elected throughout time to salvation, besides that is a very great number.
On the other hand, God does inform of how many people would be saved throughout time, by their own means without God's election.
That number is: .0 ∞ (infinity)

 

[Fastfredy0]

He suffered and died for all men; but it is up to us to accept it and His rules to live by.

Premise 1: God knows who will believe for God is all knowing.
Premise 2: Hopeful believes God died for those who won't believe
My conclusion: Hopeful believes God died in vain for those going to hell

Premise 1: Billions of people have died not hearing the salvation gospel
Premise 2: faith cometh by hearing and is needed for salvation
Premise 3: Christ knew who would never hear the gospel
Premise 4: Hopeful believes Christ purposely died for those who would not be able to use his theoretical "free will"
My conclusion: Hopeful believes God died in vain for those going to hell


Please tell me why God died for those He knew would not believe ?
Isaiah 46:10 I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish

 

[brightfame52]

If we believe and teach that a sinner is justified before God by their own action of faith/believing, then we by default are teaching justification by ones meritorious act, whether its admitted or not.

 

[brightfame52]

So everybody is, or will be, saved at the final judgement?
If it is the faith Christ has in...whatever, that saves folks, all men will be saved.

I just don't see that happening.

This sounds like heresy friend, what are you talking about ? Please stay on subject.

 

[brightfame52]

God supplies salvation through Jesus Christ.
It isn't just thrown onto us whether we believe or not.
Believing is an act we must do...to be saved.

I see you wedded to salvation by works, by what a man does. I must caution you that's against the biblical teaching of Salvation by Grace.

 

[Natha]

The word “believe” in the Greek text is “pisteuo” which is a verb denoting a work. If a person could believe in Christ before they are born again by the Spirit, it would mean they have done a work and thatjust would mean they have worked for their salvation which is totally against what the scriptures teach. Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Wonderful question... good doubt..
Doing some thing for salvation is different
Without doing anything putting faith on free salvation is different
Jesus already finished it.. just believoing (without doing any thing) is not a verb ..
it is an inner action in soul/heart..
Direct payment / or work may leads us to work
without payment believing is an inner action.. not physcical verb, but it is inner action..

 

[Edward]

If we believe and teach that a sinner is justified before God by their own action of faith/believing, then we by default are teaching justification by ones meritorious act, whether its admitted or not.

No, you're just looking at it carnally. You seem to be giving little if any credence to matters of the heart and spirit.

What one does from the heart is not considered a work for it is from the heart. Understand? You must look at everything with a spiritual eye.

 

[Hopeful]

[Rom 9:15-16, 18-22 - 24 KJV]
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then [it is] not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. ...
18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth.
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus?
21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Then you suppose some will be condemned because of God.
Personally, I believe that the condemned would have been cast out anyway.
Nothing would have persuaded them to believe the gospel, repent of sin, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins or endure faithfully till the end.
Their working response to God's gifts was a "NO".
So God used those in that rebellious state for His own good.
Every gift needs a response...which some call "work".

Yes, indeed, works. Regarding salvation, anything not as a complete gift (from God), is a work.

Even receiving it.
Believing it.
Manifesting that you believed it.

Because being "in Christ Jesus" is why they walk not after the flesh. The reverse is not true: that walking not after the flesh will place them in Christ Jesus

Getting "in Christ Jesus" is one of the "works" some abhor.
I feel that the proposers of the "no works" doctrine are more interested in doing away with turning from sin and against being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.
Thereby, condemning many.

Anything that we do to try to acquire salvation is the work God through Paul had in view. If Christ is the Saviour, then as the Saviour, He must have done EVERYTHING necessary for the salvation of those He had chosen for such.

He didn't receive it "for us".
We had to hear, believe, and act accordingly.

Was anything needed for salvation missing from/in His offering? This is the "rest" that Christ has provided to those He has saved

Yes, there was one thing missing...our acceptance of it.

 

[Hopeful]

sorry I should have included this in my prior reply:

As far as I know God doesn't inform us of the number of people He elected throughout time to salvation, besides that is a very great number.
On the other hand, God does inform of how many people would be saved throughout time, by their own means without God's election.
That number is: .0 ∞ (infinity)

That doctrine makes it look like God picks who will be saved on judgment day.
That doesn't sound like the fair, righteous Judge I know

 

[Hopeful]

Premise 1: God knows who will believe for God is all knowing.
Premise 2: Hopeful believes God died for those who won't believe
My conclusion: Hopeful believes God died in vain for those going to hell

Your second premise is wrong.
Jesus died, and, for all men who would come to Him.

Premise 1: Billions of people have died not hearing the salvation gospel
Premise 2: faith cometh by hearing and is needed for salvation
Premise 3: Christ knew who would never hear the gospel
Premise 4: Hopeful believes Christ purposely died for those who would not be able to use his theoretical "free will"
My conclusion: Hopeful believes God died in vain for those going to hell

Again, it was Jesus who died.
And Yes, His death was in vain for the opposers of righteousness.

Please tell me why God died for those He knew would not believe ?

So the believers would be saved.
Every man gets the chance to believe.
All men are born with a conscience, and that is how those not exposed to the message we hear, accept, believe, and espouse as true while we manifest Christ on earth..

Isaiah 46:10 I declare the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come. I say, ‘My purpose will stand, and all My good pleasure I will accomplish

I am sure glad I had the chance to hear, believe, repent, get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, fellowship with the faithful, learn, pray, read, and show the Son of God in my heart by my actions on the face of this earth.

Without accepting the gift, you don't get the gift.