Is believing/faith a work ?

[Hopeful]

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7
Paul is plainly warning these Christians to turn away from sin and immorality or they will be partakers of the wrath of God.

I see it as warning them to stay turned away.

Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Paul warns these Christians not to be partakers of the wrath of God with the sons of disobedience.

Thank God for the exhortations and admonitions of Paul and the other apostles.
Warnings are very different than blame or accusations.

 

[Hopeful]

There is nothing “automatic” about the process of sanctification or transformation. It’s process of becoming.

As we are sanctified by the blood of Christ, (Heb 10:4, 5, 10), how many times did Christ have to shed His blood for process folks?
He only needed to do it once for me.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:12

Yes, and that power is our ability to repent, permanently, from sin and to be baptized into Christ.
I guess those that don't really believe in His name might take a long time to be washed by the sanctifying blood of Christ.

 

[JLB]

I thought for sure you would use some other epistle besides 1 Cor.
1 Cor. is where Paul got after the adulterer.

It’s a statement by Paul that doesn’t change from epistle to epistle.


Paul didn’t write letters to the unsaved, to teach them.

To the unsaved he preached the Gospel.




JLB

 

[JLB]

I see it as warning them to stay turned away.

Thank God for the exhortations and admonitions of Paul and the other apostles.
Warnings are very different than blame or accusations.

Calling someone out for a sin is not blame or accusations, it part of the role of leadership.

Things got back to Paul of various sins that were going on in the Church after he left.

Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:7-10




Paul in his letter, addressed these things.

 

[JLB]

But if an unbeliever reads it, they may find the way they were looking for in order to be made free of something or other.

How would an unbeliever, who does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God who takes away sin, going about being made free apart from Christ?




JLB

 

[JLB]

As we are sanctified by the blood of Christ, (Heb 10:4, 5, 10), how many times did Christ have to shed His blood for process folks?
He only needed to do it once for me.

Agreed, Jesus Christ is the final sacrifice for sin.

 

[JLB]

Yes, and that power is our ability to repent, permanently, from sin and to be baptized into Christ.
I guess those that don't really believe in His name might take a long time to be washed by the sanctifying blood of Christ.

The power is the Spirit of God, which is called grace; the God given ability to do what we can not do without it, which s believe and therefore obey the Gospel.


Then after we are saved, and filled with the Spirit, to continue to walk in dominion over the sin the continues to dwell in our flesh. The Spirit empowers us to walk in the victory of that freedom.


Nevertheless, if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.


My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2






JLB

 

[brightfame52]

What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing !

 

[D-D-W]

What the carnal religionist has done in corrupting the word of truth, they have made faith, the act of believing a condition to get saved. They teach that God foresees this act of the sinner and then He's influenced or moved to reward the sinner with salvation or eternal life. Folks that's not salvation by grace through faith Eph 2:8, but its salvation by works, by the foreseen merit of man , and its an abomination to the Lord ! They make salvation of debt, rewarding their act of believing !

So believing now is "an abomination to the Lord." OY!

"By faith you were saved..."

 

[Edward]

It isn't a sin to eat.
And if you're fasting...or starving, you don't eat anyway.
"Fleshly" urges can be subdued by the mind.
Especially a mind focused on Christ.

Eating for survival seems to be necessary, lol. Scripture says take no thought for the morrow, what you will eat or drink...etc., but (I speak for Americans) who eats for survival?
I like Pizza. I like steak. I like certain ice cream. Apparently, lots of people have a problem with gluttony. I don't have that problem myself, I'm poor. Lol.

The reborn have no carnal mind.
It is written..."For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2:16)

I do not agree with this. I remember when I first got saved and born again. Mentally, I woke up the same person as I was yesterday but with a new focus in life. I still didn't know hardly anything about the Lord. So I opened up a Bible and figured it was a good place to start. And what did it tell me to do?

Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.../

So how can the reborn not have a carnal mind? Don't conform to this world, give that type of thinking up. And get transformed by the renewing of your mind...how do we do that?! We do that by reading the Bible. It tells all about God and as you read it it fills your mind then begins spilling over into your heart. Then one can do a good work for the Lord.

You know how sometimes when you read the bible a certain verse or passage will just jump off the page and speak to you deeply. (about something which has been on your heart)...?? That is called a Rhema and is God speaking to us while we read & meditate on it. That transforms us over time.

My heart pumps blood, and that is all it does.
The word "heart" can be interchanged with "mind", however.
If by "heart", you mean "mind".
So how can one out-anything the other?

Not according to my understanding. As it turns out, the teenage girls were right, lol. (We should follow our heart moreso than the reasoning mind).

The science says the heart contains the exact same kind of cells that the brain does, a lot of them. They used to think that the brain talks to the heart and all other parts of the body (tell it what to do) but now technology shows us that the heart is the (organ?) that talks back to the brain. In fact it talks more to the brain than the brain does to it.

When you have acquired knowledge, you can say, I know something. If you've been trained in it then you're probably right in what you know. But!

Have you ever said (or heard said), I know it in my heart. Or, I feel it in my heart?

Where's that come from if the heart don't think? People just decided to start saying that when the heart don't really think? Why not I feel it in foot ? The thing is though (I believe) is that, the we say the heart thinks and it does think but not in the same way that the brain/carnal mind does. It's less words and more just perceiving. I know! Have you ever made a decision from the heart? I bet you have, Lol! Love your Wife eh? Never gave in and did that something special for your child, that if it weren't for them, you wouldn't have been out buying a 75 dollar Barbie castle or whatever, money's tight! But you did anyway. You Lover her. Your heart thought about it and gave you the nudge, buy it anyway!

Besides, Brother, why would scripture tell us to take every thought captive to Christ, if the born again had no carnal mind?

2 Corinthians 10:5
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

 

[D-D-W]

The reborn have no carnal mind.
It is written..."For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ." (1 Cor 2:16)

Note that it is "we" and NOT "I." It is never held individually, but only in the plurality of a redeemed community.

 

[WIP]

Reading through discussions like this reminds me about how it is that a law can be written with a specific intent and so quickly be convoluted into 20 other meanings. And we blame lawyers in those situations but how many of us are lawyers? Ever wonder if God looks at us and can only just shake His head in amazement?

 

[Hopeful]

It’s a statement by Paul that doesn’t change from epistle to epistle.
Paul didn’t write letters to the unsaved, to teach them.
To the unsaved he preached the Gospel.

Yet, I learned so much before I was converted.
The standing of my salvation, however, waits for the return of Jesus.

 

[Hopeful]

Calling someone out for a sin is not blame or accusations, it part of the role of leadership.

Semantics.
Calling someone out-accusation, blame, what's the diff'?

Things got back to Paul of various sins that were going on in the Church after he left.

The one sin I am aware of was the adultery from 1 Cor.
Do you have another one in mind?

Now therefore, it is already an utter failure for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:7-10
Paul in his letter, addressed these things.

I do consider 1 Cor 6:8 relating another sin...defrauding any man, much less a brother

 

[Hopeful]

How would an unbeliever, who does not believe in Jesus Christ as the Lamb of God who takes away sin, going about being made free apart from Christ?

Perhaps they had been part of a pseudo-religion that only presented half-truths.
But upon reading for themselves, actually had a change of heart.

 

[Hopeful]

Agreed, Jesus Christ is the final sacrifice for sin.

Then why is sanctification a process if it only took one thing to accomplish that sanctification?

 

[Hopeful]

The power is the Spirit of God, which is called grace; the God given ability to do what we can not do without it, which s believe and therefore obey the Gospel.

My repentance from sin and baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins came before I received the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then after we are saved, and filled with the Spirit, to continue to walk in dominion over the sin the continues to dwell in our flesh. The Spirit empowers us to walk in the victory of that freedom.

I won't be "saved" till I learn my name is still in the book of life.
The sin "in my body" was eradicated when it was crucified with Christ.
I am a new creature now, and born of God's seed...so can't bring forth the fruit of the devil.

Nevertheless, if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2

It is the job of the converted to present that advocate to the sinners.

 

[Hopeful]

Eating for survival seems to be necessary, lol. Scripture says take no thought for the morrow, what you will eat or drink...etc., but (I speak for Americans) who eats for survival?
I like Pizza. I like steak. I like certain ice cream. Apparently, lots of people have a problem with gluttony. I don't have that problem myself, I'm poor. Lol.

Please keep in mind that we were discussing fleshly desires. and by fleshly, I mean anything not from a Spiritually minded person.
Even the men walking in the Spirit need to eat.
But by fasting, they can show that their new Spiritual mind can overpower even the most basic bodily need to eat.

I do not agree with this.

Then you are saying the Lord was carnally minded.
I don't agree with you.

I remember when I first got saved and born again. Mentally, I woke up the same person as I was yesterday but with a new focus in life.

How can you be born again but still be the same person that was killed in order for you to walk in newness of life? (Rom 6:3-7)

I still didn't know hardly anything about the Lord. So I opened up a Bible and figured it was a good place to start. And what did it tell me to do?
Romans 12:2
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.../

That was a wise move, Edward.
Remember too, that the Lord will supply pastors and teachers for your needs.
Search for them, and you will find them.

So how can the reborn not have a carnal mind? Don't conform to this world, give that type of thinking up. And get transformed by the renewing of your mind...how do we do that?! We do that by reading the Bible. It tells all about God and as you read it it fills your mind then begins spilling over into your heart. Then one can do a good work for the Lord.

Just remember that the old you was, as Gal 5:24 says..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts."
A new you can resist the devil's attempts to get you thinking like the old you.
Edward:
You know how sometimes when you read the bible a certain verse or passage will just jump off the page and speak to you deeply. (about something which has been on your heart)...?? That is called a Rhema and is God speaking to us while we read & meditate on it. That transforms us over time.
I haven't heard it called that before, but I can't argue with it.
I have had experiences like that before, but I call them revelations.

Not according to my understanding. As it turns out, the teenage girls were right, lol. (We should follow our heart moreso than the reasoning mind).
The science says the heart contains the exact same kind of cells that the brain does, a lot of them. They used to think that the brain talks to the heart and all other parts of the body (tell it what to do) but now technology shows us that the heart is the (organ?) that talks back to the brain. In fact it talks more to the brain than the brain does to it.
When you have acquired knowledge, you can say, I know something. If you've been trained in it then you're probably right in what you know. But!
Have you ever said (or heard said), I know it in my heart. Or, I feel it in my heart?
Where's that come from if the heart don't think? People just decided to start saying that when the heart don't really think? Why not I feel it in foot ? The thing is though (I believe) is that, the we say the heart thinks and it does think but not in the same way that the brain/carnal mind does. It's less words and more just perceiving. I know! Have you ever made a decision from the heart? I bet you have, Lol! Love your Wife eh? Never gave in and did that something special for your child, that if it weren't for them, you wouldn't have been out buying a 75 dollar Barbie castle or whatever, money's tight! But you did anyway. You Lover her. Your heart thought about it and gave you the nudge, buy it anyway!
Besides, Brother, why would scripture tell us to take every thought captive to Christ, if the born again had no carnal mind?
2 Corinthians 10:5
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

The reborn have a Spiritual mind...thanks be to God.
The past alone holds our past carnal desires.

 

[Hopeful]

Note that it is "we" and NOT "I." It is never held individually, but only in the plurality of a redeemed community.

That being said, do you suppose you don't have the mind of Christ when you are alone?
I can't agree with your POV.
Without having the mind of Christ you do have a carnal mind.
It is one or the other.

 

[Hopeful]

Reading through discussions like this reminds me about how it is that a law can be written with a specific intent and so quickly be convoluted into 20 other meanings. And we blame lawyers in those situations but how many of us are lawyers? Ever wonder if God looks at us and can only just shake His head in amazement?

I hear you.
It amazes me that the Sadducees didn't believe in spirit, angels, or resurrection.
I wonder sometimes if they were reading the same Torah everyone else was reading.