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Is believing/faith a work ?

Do we see anywhere in the Bible that when we stand before Him on that final judgement, that he demands that we give him ultimate credit for our salvation?
Straw man argument. Just because the bible doesn't speak on a subject is no reason to confirm or deny the possibility. Example: "Dorothy Mae" exists, yet is not mentioned in the bible. (See Deut. 29:29)


If we believe that the sole reason we are believers is from God, we then sacrifice justice and God is unjust
What law has God broken that He is unjust? Please give the verse.
Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience (God has caused/imprisoned all to sin.. do you say He is unjust? Again, what Law did he break? God is the supreme ruler ... He is not ruled by the law or by your opinion of what He should be.

Do we really like anyone who insists that those around him give them constant credit for what they did? Does this make God attractive to insist that He insists on being given all credit?
You think of God in human terms and your intuition. Have you not read Rev. 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:
“Holy, holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!” ... 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever; and they throw down their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power;

The praise of man adds nothing to God as He is immutable anyways.

Our part is insufficient but necessary.
There are 100s of verses to contradict this assertion. There are a few the implicitly support your state.
John 1:13 who were born [regenerated], not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].
Aside: One should be careful taking credit for what God has done. Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? ... apparently, you have an answer to this question: that you should be rewarded for your faith that was uncaused by God. 1 Corinthians 4:7
 
Straw man argument. Just because the bible doesn't speak on a subject is no reason to confirm or deny the possibility. Example: "Dorothy Mae" exists, yet is not mentioned in the bible. (See Deut. 29:29)
Not at all. There are descriptions of what will happen when we stand before Him. There are some who will hear, as Jesus said they would, "well done good and faithful servant."
What law has God broken that He is unjust? Please give the verse.
One would have to have an understanding of what justice is same as one has to have an understanding of moral right and wrong to be able to see the difference between justice and injustice.
Romans 11:32 For God has imprisoned all in disobedience (God has caused/imprisoned all to sin.. do you say He is unjust? Again, what Law did he break? God is the supreme ruler ... He is not ruled by the law or by your opinion of what He should be.
You need to realize that verse 32 is referring to the Jews.Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32For God has [h]committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

And the word is not "imprisoned" nor "caused to sin" which the Bible says God never tempts man to sin let alone imprison them in sin. But they Jews chose not to believe and to persecute those who did. Therefore a result of that choice is sin has them. That is justice. But again, one would have to already have an understanding of what justice is.
You think of God in human terms and your intuition.
No, I read the Bible and walk with Him. We are made in His likeness. We know justice and injustice same as He does, well those who have not rendered themselves blind to the concept.
Have you not read Rev. 4:8
The four living creatures, each having six wings, were full of eyes around and within. And they do not rest day or night, saying:
“Holy, holy, holy,
Lord God Almighty,
Who was and is and is to come!” ... 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and they worship Him who lives forever and ever; and they throw down their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power;
So where does this say that the people did not understand God? It says the opposite. They understand Him and worship Him for who He is. They say he is "worthy" that is, His deeds show that He deserves the glory and honor and power. It actually supports my position, not yours.
The praise of man adds nothing to God as He is immutable anyways.
Who said it does? What a strange concept.
There are 100s of verses to contradict this assertion. There are a few the implicitly support your state.
No, there are 100s supporting the fact that we must choose to repent and believe. All the preaching in the Bible requires that a man make a decision.
John 1:13 who were born [regenerated], not of blood [natural conception], nor of the will of the flesh [physical impulse], nor of the will of man [that of a natural father], but of God [that is, a divine and supernatural birth—they are born of God—spiritually transformed, renewed, sanctified].
Ah, being forgiven of sin, which Jesus declared to Nicodemus as being born again, is not our choice but a result of our choice. That is the order. We repent of our sin, as Peter preached, and then God responds and forgives us and gives us His Holy Spirit. No one in the Bible asked God to get people born again on His own overruling their free will. There isn't a single example of God making someone born again without their knowledge or will.
Aside: One should be careful taking credit for what God has done. Job 41:11 Who has first given to Me, that I should repay him? ... apparently, you have an answer to this question: that you should be rewarded for your faith that was uncaused by God. 1 Corinthians 4:7
I think you do not understand the complexity of the position that sees that God is not micromanaging the world. The theology that changes God with micromanaging every single person's decision is sort of easy but requires you not to think of it very far. It is a child's view of life as children think their parents know everything and can do everything. The mature view is to understand the part we play and the part others play in the matters of life. But this is very complex. Whole university departments are dedicated to understanding this. The "God just does it" view is for preschool.
 
Robert Harbach wrote:

If faith is a condition unto my salvation which I must fulfill, if faith must originate with me, then my salvation is by works — and that excludes me — for all my works are filthy rags! Faith must be the gift of God so that I can believe! If I may believe through grace, then, praise God, my deliverance is His work from beginning to end! This is Calvinism. It is unpopular, but it is right. It is despised but glorious. It alone can say, Sola Dei Gloria!

Calvinism Unpopular But Right

This article first appeared in the December 1966 issue of the Standard Bearer, vol.43, Issue 5. The religious and doctrinal outlook of this now beyond middle age twentieth century is not that of Calvinism or that of the Reformed Faith. It is rather that of an inclusivistic or syncretistic and...
www.prca.org
 
If faith is a condition unto my salvation which I must fulfill, if faith must originate with me, then my salvation is by works — and that excludes me — for all my works are filthy rags! Faith must be the gift of God so that I can believe!
First off, faith IS the gift of God. It's the supernatural conviction that what you can't see or prove to be true for yourself really is true. The HOLDING ON to faith is what you do. That's your believing, your trust in what God has shown by the gift of faith to be true. And Paul is quite clear that there is NO boast in having faith. It is NOT included in the works that can not justify. Believing is the very thing you are to do to be justified! Just as Abraham was justified when he believed God when He showed him the truth and reality of things to come.
 
First off, faith IS the gift of God. It's the supernatural conviction that what you can't see or prove to be true for yourself really is true. The HOLDING ON to faith is what you do. That's your believing, your trust in what God has shown by the gift of faith to be true. And Paul is quite clear that there is NO boast in having faith. It is NOT included in the works that can not justify. Believing is the very thing you are to do to be justified! Just as Abraham was justified when he believed God when He showed him the truth and reality of things to come.
Faith is the Gift of God because it acconmpanies Salvation. So its an evidence of being saved, not a condition. So how do you understand Faith ? #1 An evidence of salvation or #2 a condition you do to get salvation ?
 
Faith is the Gift of God because it acconmpanies Salvation. So its an evidence of being saved, not a condition.
Faith (believing, specifically) is, both, a condition for salvation, and the evidence that you are saved. When the Bible says salvation is by/through faith, it means it's by/through faith. You get saved by having faith in the blood of Jesus to forgive your sin. You access the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin by faith. Faith is the conduit through which you receive the forgiveness of sin that saves you. Read it:

Romans 5:1-2
1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand. And we rejoiceb in the hope of the glory of God.

Faith first. Then you have what faith accesses.
 
jethro

Faith (believing, specifically) is, both, a condition for salvation, and the evidence that you are saved.

You mixing grace and works, a deadly combination. Scripture says it cant be both Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
jethro



You mixing grace and works, a deadly combination. Scripture says it cant be both Rom 11:6

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Believing stands in contrast to works in the matter of what justifies and what does not:

Romans 4:5
...to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

But you are saying believing is included in the works that cannot justify. But as we can plainly see in the verse above, believing is not included in the works that cannot justify. In fact, it is the very thing you must do to be justified. But you are calling believing a work that cannot justify.
 
Believing stands in contrast to works in the matter of what justifies and what does not:

Romans 4:5
...to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

But you are saying believing is included in the works that cannot justify. But as we can plainly see in the verse above, believing is not included in the works that cannot justify. In fact, it is the very thing you must do to be justified. But you are calling believing a work that cannot justify.
Believing stands in contrast to works only when believing isnt a condition for salvation, but a spiritual blessing that comes with Salvation by grace. However you tell us believing is a condition, hence you have fallen from grace my friend
 
Believing stands in contrast to works only when believing isnt a condition for salvation, but a spiritual blessing that comes with Salvation by grace. However you tell us believing is a condition, hence you have fallen from grace my friend
As we can plainly see, believing is indeed the condition to be justified.

Romans 4:3
3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his believing) was credited to him as righteousness.”

Believing is what you do that is then credited to you as righteousness. That's what it says.
 
As we can plainly see, believing is indeed the condition to be justified.

Romans 4:3
3For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it (his believing) was credited to him as righteousness.”

Believing is what you do that is then credited to you as righteousness. That's what it says.
You are advocating works salvation and in direct opposition to Grace .
 
You believe faith / believing is a condition man meets to get salvation, so you believe in works, there is no way around it. and so you deny grace.
Yes, you have to have faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin in order to be saved. That is the condition that must be satisfied in order to be justified/saved. Paul says the person who believes and does not work is the one to whom righteousness is credited.

Romans 4:5
5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

In the passage, the one who believes is the one who does not work. But you say the person who believes is working and is, therefore, serving a works salvation gospel. It just doesn't say that. We can see that with our own eyes.
 
Yes, you have to have faith in the blood of Christ for the forgiveness of sin in order to be saved. That is the condition that must be satisfied in order to be justified/saved. Paul says the person who believes and does not work is the one to whom righteousness is credited.

Romans 4:5
5However, to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

In the passage, the one who believes is the one who does not work. But you say the person who believes is working and is, therefore, serving a works salvation gospel. It just doesn't say that. We can see that with our own eyes.
You continue to promote salvation by works, by conditions, so you oppose grace.
 
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