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Is believing/faith a work ?

brightfame52 said:
To believe in scripture is an action verb, If you condition your salvation before God on your believing, then congrats, you promote salvation by works.
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This makes no sense. Conditioning one's salvation on one's belief is not work, it is belief. A belief is a subjective attitude that something or proposition is true. Work is the use of force to move an object.
 
Cooper said:
You need static verbs. No action required.
The doctor disagrees with your analysis.
John doubts the doctor’s opinion.
I believe the doctor is right.
She wanted another opinion.
.
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No matter how you spin it, if you condition your salvation on your act of believing, its works salvation and denies Christ.
 
jaybo said:
This makes no sense. Conditioning one's salvation on one's belief is not work, it is belief. A belief is a subjective attitude that something or proposition is true. Work is the use of force to move an object.
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Conditioning ones salvation on their act of belief, is works, cant get around it.
 
I was always good at grammar, but this has been an educational topic.
(Now if it only came in a ‘Schoolhouse Rock’ song … “Lolly, Lolly, Lolly, get your adverbs, here.” 😉 )
 
jaybo said:
Work is the use of force to move an object.
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Your definition of WORK is one used in science. W = F X D (Work = Force X Displacement)
You should use a dictionary to define WORK.
Work is:
  1. Physical or mental effort or activity directed toward the production or accomplishment of something.
  2. Such effort or activity by which one makes a living; employment.
  3. A trade, profession, or other means of livelihood.
However, work is simply engaging in physical or mental activity in order to achieve a purpose or result.
https://www.gotquestions.org/theology-of-work.html
Thus, if Free Will be true, then one would be saved by one's works which would give one reason to boast as one with God's assistance saved himself.
John 6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” In this verse Jesus clearly defines Belief (Faith) in Christ as a work and God is the person doing the work.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its sad you are not able to acknowledge such a evident Truth friend, may God have mercy on you.
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I am open to reason, it is you who have a closed mind. A thought is not a physical act. It never has been. The scripture agrees with me.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So here is evidence that God considers belief is NOT a work if someone who worketh not believes.
 
Believer of the Word said:
So here is evidence that God considers belief is NOT a work
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Interesting seeing that the following verse GOD himself says BELIEF is a work.
John 6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” In this verse Jesus clearly defines Belief (Faith) in Christ as a work and God is the person doing the work.

RE: Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The reason it says that the person does not work is, as John 6:29 points out, it is God doing the work of causing a person to believe.

Conflict of 2 verses solved.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Interesting seeing that the following verse GOD himself says BELIEF is a work.
John 6:29 Jesus replied, “The work of God is this: to believe in the One He has sent.” In this verse Jesus clearly defines Belief (Faith) in Christ as a work and God is the person doing the work.

RE: Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. The reason it says that the person does not work is, as John 6:29 points out, it is God doing the work of causing a person to believe.

Conflict of 2 verses solved.
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I interpret this verse John 6:29 entirely differently than you.

John 6:29 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
It is the work of God because his son Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sin. That was the work of God. He does not "cause" us to believe. Man has free will. To imagine otherwise makes no sense. Why would God send his son to die, if he was simply going to choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? How illogical?

A five point Calvinist who is truly honest would have to witness to his neighbor in this manner;
"Hi neighbor! Good News! God has chosen some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell, but there's nothing you can do about it either way, so good luck with eternity!"
 
Believer of the Word said:
It is the work of God
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Define "IT" in your sentence? The "IT" is the crux of the discussion. What is "IT" in your mind?
The verse to me says IT = "that you believe". Therefore Belief is a WORK.

Believer of the Word said:
It is the work of God because his son Jesus Christ died on the cross for our sin.
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This is true, but this fact is not mentioned in the verse. What is the "IT" in the verse in your opinion? What specific WORK is John 6:29 addressing?

Believer of the Word said:
He does not "cause" us to believe. Man has free will.
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Well, that's debatable and FREE WILL is not mentioned in the verse (or anywhere in the bible save a FREE WILL offering)

Believer of the Word said:
To imagine otherwise makes no sense. Why would God send his son to die, if he was simply going to choose who goes to heaven and who goes to hell? How foolish!
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That's debatable ... John 6:29 ... what work is specifically referred to?

Believer of the Word said:
A five point Calvinist who is truly honest would have to witness to his neighbor in this manner;
"Hi neighbor! Good News! God has chosen some people to go to heaven and others to go to hell, but there's nothing you can do about it either way, so good luck with eternity!"
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You've gone off topic. I could answer it.... but you're off topic. John 6:29 ... what work is specifically referred to?
 
We are body, soul. and spirit. We are ONE person.

Jesus said, "I and the Father are One."

God is ONE, and we who are made in the image of God are One.
.
 
Believer of the Word said:
I am open to reason, it is you who have a closed mind. A thought is not a physical act. It never has been. The scripture agrees with me.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

So here is evidence that God considers belief is NOT a work if someone who worketh not believes.
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Oh No, unfortunately you refuse a very simplistic truth, that believing is an action.
 
brightfame52 said:
Okay sounds good, but nevertheless, some believe that their act of believing was required for eternal salvation, thats works. Now if you dont believe that, you good from that perspective.
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1. Who do you think you are, a member of a false cult, to preach to me!
2. The Bible tells us the way of salvation. Read and learn.
.
 
Cooper said:
1. Who do you think you are, a member of a false cult, to preach to me!
2. The Bible tells us the way of salvation. Read and learn.
.
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Sounds like I hit a nerve with that comment, nevertheless, if we condition our salvation on our act of believing, its salvation by works and flat out denies grace.
 
brightfame52 said:
Oh No, unfortunately you refuse a very simplistic truth, that believing is an action.
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Call it what you want, but believing does not constitute a work of the works gospel. As we can plainly see in the verse below believing is contrasted with the works of the works gospel, not equated with it as you are doing:

5...to the one who does not work, but believes... Romans 4:5

It's not the one who works, but the one who believes that is credited righteousness.
 
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Iconoclast ,

Here we're seeing how people have changed Calvinism so that justification in Calvinism is now by nothing rather than by believing, as the scriptures clearly declare. They put believing on the side of works so that even now believing itself is a work that can not justify a person. This is crazy!
 
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