What's new
By:
Filters
Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Is believing/faith a work ?

brightfame52 said:
Okay good, lets go with in time when Christ paid for your sins 2000 yrs ago, and before you were regenerated, before you had faith, while unregenerated, were you Justified before God on the sole basis of Christ having paid for your sins ? Yes or No please
Click to expand...
Hardly fair to ask for a YES or NO when you didn't answer my two Yes/No questions .. but anyways ...

In a time (chronological) sequence I was not justified before I was regenerated.
The logical sequence is: Regeneration --> saving faith --> justification
,,, since we are justified by faith and since the question asked if I was justified before having saving faith the answer is NO. In other words, if I had died before believing I would not have been justified and would have gone to hell.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Paul plainly says there is no boast of merit in being justified by faith:
Click to expand...
Premise 1:
Paul plainly says there is no boast of merit in being justified by faith
Click to expand...
Conclusion: Faith via free will is not possible for we would have reason to boast for only those who thru their work of faith are saved; they were more righteous then those who did not believe.


Jethro Bodine said:
it is incumbent on the believer whether or not they receive, retain, or reject God's free gift of faith, not God. God in his grace simply makes it available:
Click to expand...
Premise 1: Not saved by WORKS (Eph. 2:8-9)
premise 2: Work is something you do to accomplish a purpose (dictionary)
Conclusion: One cannot maintain one's salvation by works

Not much sense continuing ... we have a communication issue.
 
fastfreddy

NO. In other words, if I had died before believing I would not have been justified and would have gone to hell.
Click to expand...

Then thats works fastfreddy, Justification before God based upon what you did, and what was in you.

Its saying that what Christ did alone for you[Shedding His Blood] was insufficient to Justify you before Gods Law and Justice.
 
brightfame52 said:
Yes it is.
Click to expand...
brightfame52. Dare you deny scripture and Jesus?

Mar_5:36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh_14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Joh_14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Conclusion: Faith via free will is not possible for we would have reason to boast for only those who thru their work of faith are saved; they were more righteous then those who did not believe.
Click to expand...
Choosing to believe or being compelled to believe is not you being righteous in order to be declared righteous in God's sight. That's not what righteousness through believing means, so any argument about freewill believing vs. forced believing has no bearing on the 'works vs. faith' argument.

See, the problem is, Calvinist's have lost site of the meaning of the 'works vs. faith' argument. What distinguishes believing from works is believing means you become righteous by having your sins forgiven, by faith in that forgiveness, while works means you (try to) become righteous in God's sight by being righteous.

So with that misunderstanding straightened out you can see that your argument for freewill believing vs. forced believing is not the issue at all. The issue is whether or not you believe that you are made righteous in God's sight by receiving God's forgiveness, by faith (forced or freewill, doesn't matter), or if you think you are made righteous in God's sight by being righteous in God's sight.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Premise 1: Not saved by WORKS (Eph. 2:8-9)
premise 2: Work is something you do to accomplish a purpose (dictionary)
Conclusion: One cannot maintain one's salvation by works
Click to expand...
This completely ignores the scriptures that show us the 'work' of believing, if that's what you want to call it, is NOT included in the works that can not justify. You simply do not understand the 'works vs. faith' argument. If you did, you would not be trying to make a 'forced vs. freewill faith' argument.
 
Fastfredy0 said:
Not much sense continuing ... we have a communication issue.
Click to expand...
You could tell me why you think these verses do not mean it is incumbent on the person, not God, to receive and retain the word of faith:

1 John 2:24-25
1 Timothy 1:19
Hebrews 4:14
Hebrews 10:23

I'll hear you out.

It is incumbent on God to make the word of faith available, but not incumbent on God that we receive and retain it. That is up to us. With loads of God's loving encouragement, of course.
 
Cooper said:
brightfame52. Dare you deny scripture and Jesus?

Mar_5:36 As soon as Jesus heard the word that was spoken, he saith unto the ruler of the synagogue, Be not afraid, only believe.

Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Joh_8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Joh_14:1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

Joh_14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act_13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
.
Click to expand...
If you condition salvation on anything you do, its works and denies Christ !
 
brightfame52 said:
Works gospel is when you condition Salvation on something you do !
Click to expand...
No, that's not the definition of the works gospel.

The works gospel is where you do something righteous in order to be seen as righteous in God's sight and, therefore, eligible for salvation. As opposed to the gospel of grace where you become righteous in God's sight and eligible for salvation by having your unrighteousness forgiven through faith in that forgiveness.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
No, that's not the definition of the works gospel.

The works gospel is where you do something righteous in order to be seen as righteous in God's sight and, therefore, eligible for salvation. As opposed to the gospel of grace where you become righteous in God's sight and eligible for salvation by having your unrighteousness forgiven through faith in that forgiveness.
Click to expand...
Works salvation is when you meet a condition, then God saves you because you met or performed the condition, whether its believing or climbing the highest mountain.
 
brightfame52 said:
Works salvation is when you meet a condition, then God saves you because you met or performed the condition, whether its believing or climbing the highest mountain.
Click to expand...
Uh, no. That is not the works gospel.

Receiving the forgiveness of God and the imputation of His righteousness by faith is not the works gospel.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top