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Is believing/faith a work ?

Fastfredy0 said:
Faith cometh by hearing. To have faith one must have facts to believe. The guys is asking "what must I do to be saved" and he is given the facts to be believed.
... hey, I'm done ... thx for the interaction.
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Not so fast!

You forgot the comma after 'is asking'.
And you have incorrectly made 'guy' plural. :lol
 
brightfame52 said:
Guess what, everyone He died for is saved/Justified,
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Yes, we agree on something.

brightfame52 said:
Now I know where you stand on the Blood of Christ, that its insufficient to Justify a sinner before God on it s own Value and Worth. May God have mercy on you friend.
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I don't think either of us understands where the other stands. We have terrible communications issues. We both think it the other guy. We are both Reformed but can't communicate doctrine to one another.

Premise 1: Romans 5:1 Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Conclusion: We must have faith to be justified. Therefore, we are not justified by Christ's blood alone
That is as simple as can be stated.

Your logic would go as:
Premise 1: We are justified by Christ's blood alone
Conclusion: We don't need faith to be justified. This is blasphemy

I know that's not what you mean to say, but that is logically the outcome of your statement.

Definitions
Alone: separate, apart, or isolated from others
Justified: legal term wherein God pardons all our sins
Faith: Belief in Christ for salvation
 
Jethro Bodine said:
If you did not access the grace of God through the conduit of faith then you have not accessed Christ:

1Therefore, since we have been justified through faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we stand.
Romans 5:1-2 BSB

So, unless you have since then accessed the grace of God through faith you are not born again yet.
Have you accessed the blood of Christ by faith yet?
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You still promoting salvation by works.
 
Jethro Bodine said:
You are made righteous in God's sight entirely on the basis of receiving God's forgiveness by having faith in that forgiveness. It is impossible to made righteous in God's sight by doing righteous work. The only way to become righteous (be justified) is to have your unrighteousness forgiven and it replaced with an imputation of God's righteousness. You will never become righteous by doing righteous works. Never. That's why justification is by faith, all by itself, apart from works.
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Hi Jethro, the gift that God gives is everlasting life, it is a gift, and no one can earn it sir. To say it is impossible to become righteous because of works is not quite correct though. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this passage: Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?

You see Jethro this has been an ongoing struggle since the ending of the law covenant, a dividing factor among Christians even in the first century, so Jesus' brother James had to address it. He went on to show how it is a combination of faith and obedience (works) that justifies and saves us sir: Jas 2:22 Thou seest that faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect; Jas 2:23 and the scripture was fulfilled which saith, And Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned unto him for righteousness; and he was called the friend of God. Jas 2:24 Ye see that by works a man is justified, and not only by faith.

Likely you are aware of that Jethro since you are sharing your faith with others here, and likely to people you speak with as well, which is actually our assignment.

I am sure that you are aware that "pew sitters" who come to church on occasion, and forget about it when they are not there, will likely be passed over when the time comes correct? Remember when Jesus returns, salvation is dependent upon two qualifications sir, can you pick them out of these verses speaking about his return?:
2th 1:6 if so be that it is righteous thing with God to recompense affliction to them that afflict you,
2th 1:7 and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire,
2th 1:8 rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:
2th 1:9 who shall suffer punishment, [even] eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,
 
Jethro Bodine said:
Then why did Paul tell the jailer to believe when the jailer asked him what he must do to be saved?

Paul told him he must believe in order to be saved. How is that not a condition for being saved?
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I have already gave my view on Acts 16 and the Jailor, and Paul never said his salvation is conditioned on whether or not he believes. This shows me you believe in works, salvation conditioned on mans doing.
 
brightfame52 said:
Now thanks for your frankness, so you condition salvation on your works, thats a denial of Grace.

My Salvation/Justification was conditioned solely by Christs One Obedience Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
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See why the Bible has to be taken as a whole 52? By your logic I am saved since I believe in Jesus, but I can truthfully say that my faith in him has not motivated me or has God granted me the privilege of doing many powerful works in Jesus' name like those of Mat 7:21-23, so what were they lacking? Jesus said they failed to do the will of his Father (God). No doubt men praised them for their many powerful works, but they chose to serve God the way they wanted to, instead of doing our assignment.

Make no mistake however, nothing we can do could save us, unless of course we could live God's law without sinning, but like the law covenant showed us, that is impossible for us. Only Jesus, out of the entire human race was able to do it. And that is because he had a sinless start. So you were quite correct in that all those who are made righteous, is done so through that obedience of him.

Although you deny works, we see you here regularly spreading words from the Bible, which is in fact the assignment Jesus gave to us, so if you do not believe in works, why then do you do sir? Your judgment of works is based upon your capability as seen in the parable of the talents. So if a person is totally incapable, we need not think that they would not receive salvation, so it is not the actual works that save, it is rather the love of God moved by a persons heart.
 
brightfame52 said:
I have already gave my view on Acts 16 and the Jailor, and Paul never said his salvation is conditioned on whether or not he believes. This shows me you believe in works, salvation conditioned on mans doing.
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You did give your view.
You say that Paul telling the jailer that he must believe in order to be saved is not Paul telling him there is the condition of believing in order to be saved. Can you explain that?
 
Jethro Bodine said:
But how were you justified (made right with God)? That is the question.
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That is a tough question Jethro, very tough. There are many stepping stones in Christians lives and I get asked that often. For instance say you had never heard of God before, and one of Christs disciples came up to you and mentioned Him, and you said you would like to know more, would you not agree at that point you would be justified? What if you rejected that opportunity, would you not say then that they were not?

Now the one who accepted goes on to learn more about God and Jesus, but then kind of slacks off, perhaps even backsliding a bit, would you say they were still justified. But what if they progressed to baptism, would you not say God was pleased and they were justified? But now they believed they were saved, so they once again kinda just stagnate, instead of pressing on to maturity? Perhaps you find this familiar, similar to the meaning of Jesus' words here sir:
Behold, the sower went forth to sow;
Mt 13:4 and as he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the birds came and devoured them:
Mt 13:5 and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth: and straightway they sprang up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mt 13:6 and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mt 13:7 And others fell upon the thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked them:
Mt 13:8 and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Jesus goes on to explain the meaning:
Mt 13:18 Hear then ye the parable of the sower.
Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, [then] cometh the evil [one], and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side.
Mt 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mt 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth.
Mt 13:22 And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mt 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See how that applies Jethro?
 
Highway54 said:
For instance say you had never heard of God before, and one of Christs disciples came up to you and mentioned Him, and you said you would like to know more, would you not agree at that point you would be justified?
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No.
I don't know how that represents believing in and receiving the forgiveness of God in Christ.

Highway54 said:
What if you rejected that opportunity, would you not say then that they were not?
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In that case they are simply remaining in the unjustified state they were already in before they rejected the opportunity to inquire of the Christian faith.
 
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