Is believing/faith a work ?

[Highway54]

By grace only!

Ephesians 2:8-9, "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God— not the result of works, so that no one may boast. "

May I ask you Jay, what is the meaning of the parable of the talents sir?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Now the one who accepted goes on to learn more about God and Jesus, but then kind of slacks off, perhaps even backsliding a bit, would you say they were still justified.

No. I don't see that they were justified by simply inquiring about the faith. You have to believe it, placing your trust in it, to be justified.

But what if they progressed to baptism, would you not say God was pleased and they were justified?

If their baptism was the result of having truly believed and received the gospel of Christ, then, yes, they were justified.

But now they believed they were saved, so they once again kinda just stagnate, instead of pressing on to maturity? Perhaps you find this familiar, similar to the meaning of Jesus' words here sir:
Behold, the sower went forth to sow;
Mt 13:4 and as he sowed, some [seeds] fell by the way side, and the birds came and devoured them:
Mt 13:5 and others fell upon the rocky places, where they had not much earth: and straightway they sprang up, because they had no deepness of earth:
Mt 13:6 and when the sun was risen, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.
Mt 13:7 And others fell upon the thorns; and the thorns grew up and choked them:
Mt 13:8 and others fell upon the good ground, and yielded fruit, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
Jesus goes on to explain the meaning:
Mt 13:18 Hear then ye the parable of the sower.
Mt 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, [then] cometh the evil [one], and snatcheth away that which hath been sown in his heart. This is he that was sown by the way side.
Mt 13:20 And he that was sown upon the rocky places, this is he that heareth the word, and straightway with joy receiveth it;
Mt 13:21 yet hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while; and when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, straightway he stumbleth.
Mt 13:22 And he that was sown among the thorns, this is he that heareth the word; and the care of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
Mt 13:23 And he that was sown upon the good ground, this is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; who verily beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.
See how that applies Jethro?

If the person's stagnation (absence of spiritual fruit/growth) is the result of unbelief - assuming it's possible to go back to unbelief - that person no longer stands justified before God in heaven because the blood he no longer believes in is no longer interceding for him before the Father on his behalf because of his unbelief. Not because of his sin, but because of his unbelief. Consequently, the sin that is now no longer covered by the blood of Jesus - because he doesn't trust and believe in it anymore - will condemn him on the Day of Christ.

Believers are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5). Remove faith and you no longer have that through which a person is kept by the power of God. Even Calvinism (the original teaching) believes this! For it also says the person who does not continue in faith is not saved. It just says they were never really saved to begin with.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hi Jethro, the gift that God gives is everlasting life, it is a gift, and no one can earn it sir. To say it is impossible to become righteous because of works is not quite correct though. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with this passage: Jas 2:21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?

Okay, this is the epic struggle between Paul's 'justification by faith apart from works', and James' 'justification by works done in faith'. It's a difficult matter to reconcile, but easily explained when you understand that 'justified' has two distinct definitions. One definition is 'to be made righteous', and another definition is 'to be shown to be righteous'. This is easily confirmed here: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/justify

Paul is using the word 'justified' in regard to becoming righteous by receiving the righteousness that is from God through faith in God (Romans 3:22). James is using the word 'justified' in regard to showing yourself to have the righteousness of faith through the evidence of your obedient works (James 2:18).

It's clear that the genuine believer must be justified by, both, faith and works. But not because works somehow make you righteous in God's sight, but because they are the obligatory and expected outcome of having received the righteousness of God by faith apart from works. In short, the person who can not demonstrate by his life that he has received the righteousness of God is showing the he does not really have the righteousness that is from God! And so a man must be justified by works and not faith alone (James 2:24), for what that actually means. It does not mean works somehow make a man righteous. Faith does that all by itself. It means that you must have the works that show/prove that you have been made righteous through faith in God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I am sure that you are aware that "pew sitters" who come to church on occasion, and forget about it when they are not there, will likely be passed over when the time comes correct? Remember when Jesus returns, salvation is dependent upon two qualifications sir, can you pick them out of these verses speaking about his return?:
2th 1:6 if so be that it is righteous thing with God to recompense affliction to them that afflict you,
2th 1:7 and to you that are afflicted rest with us, at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with the angels of his power in flaming fire,
2th 1:8 rendering vengeance to them that know not God, and to them that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus:
2th 1:9 who shall suffer punishment, [even] eternal destruction from the face of the Lord and from the glory of his might,

Pew sitters who do nothing righteous have not failed to make themselves righteous by doing righteous works. They have failed to show themselves to possess the righteousness that comes from God by faith apart from works.

It is because they do not have faith, and as a result have not been made righteous in Christ, that they will be condemned by their unrighteous deeds. Their unrighteous deeds testifying to the fact that they are unbelievers. Just as the righteous deeds of the righteous will testify to the fact that they are believers. Matthew 25:31-46

 

[Jethro Bodine]

He went on to show how it is a combination of faith and obedience (works) that justifies and saves us sir: Jas 2:22

Paul's justification: Faith makes us righteous.

James' justification: Works show us to have the faith by which we are made righteous.

Both 'justification's' are necessary for one who claims to be saved. The danger is to think that one is made righteous by the works that, invariably, must accompany salvation. Works only show us to be saved.

 

[Fastfredy0]

The 'cause' of justification is:
See https://christianforums.net/threads/is-believing-faith-a-work.88805/page-127
Short answer:
Justification is the free and gracious gift of God bestowed on those who receive by faith the sacrifice of Jesus Christ.
... so we are justified by faith .... it's that simple; if you have faith then you are automatically justified (Romans 5:1)

Is faith a work:
See https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-work.html
Short answer:
"God is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself," ..... so faith is a work, but it is a work that God does (John 6:29) which causes one to believe. It is our faith; and why we believe is God. Cause and effect. God causes us to believe; our belief is the effect. God does all the work and the finished product is a believer.

The thread title is somewhat obtuse. It should say: Is believing/faith a work of: 1) God alone or 2) man alone or 3) both.
Most people say BOTH. Reformed theology says God. All sides say the bible supports their view.

Hmmm, I suppose God has hardened the hearts of those that get it wrong
Aside: there's a "Can sinning be overcome?" thread where there are several people who no longer sin. Therefore, since misrepresenting God in this manner would be sinful, you are sure to get the correct answer from one of them assuming they are correct in saying they no longer sin.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Is faith a work:
See https://www.gotquestions.org/faith-work.html
Short answer:
"God is the author and finisher of our faith (Hebrews 12:2). The work necessary to provide salvation was fully accomplished by Jesus Himself," ..... so faith is a work, but it is a work that God does (John 6:29) which causes one to believe. It is our faith; and why we believe is God. Cause and effect. God causes us to believe; our belief is the effect. God does all the work and the finished product is a believer.

The thread title is somewhat obtuse. It should say: Is believing/faith a work of: 1) God alone or 2) man alone or 3) both.
Most people say BOTH. Reformed theology says God. All sides say the bible supports their view.

Hmmm, I suppose God has hardened the hearts of those that get it wrong
Aside: there's a "Can sinning be overcome?" thread where there are several people who no longer sin. Therefore, since misrepresenting God in this manner would be sinful, you are sure to get the correct answer from one of them assuming they are correct in saying they no longer sin.

You’re asking the wrong question. Of course believing is something you ‘do’. It’s a verb.

The question is, is believing a work of self righteousness performed in order to show God you are righteous in and of yourself, or is believing something you do to access the righteousness that is not your own and which comes from God? Obviously, the answer is the latter - believing is what you do to become righteous, not do to demonstrate your own righteousness.

And that‘s what makes the argument about the difference between your believing, and God’s believing impressed on you, moot. It’s about the fact that believing is the one and only thing you ’do’ to be justified, not whether or not believing is a self righteous work.

 

[Cooper]

Jesus didnt make any conditions He is the Saviour, you been deceived.

People who do not believe are known as atheists for whom there is no salvation.
.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hmmm, I suppose God has hardened the hearts of those that get it wrong

Because of it’s complexity and the effort with which it was carefully developed, Calvinism is a very powerful teaching that does not get dismantled very easily once it gets entrenched in a person. But with a thoughtful and insightful use of scripture, and a little honesty, it can be. I understand it takes time for the Calvinistic construct to be deconstructed in the minds of those who embrace it.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The thread title is somewhat obtuse. It should say: Is believing/faith a work of: 1) God alone or 2) man alone or 3) both.

It’s an easy answer.

God provides the faith, the proof, the conviction that the gospel is true through the testimony of the Holy Spirit. And from that position of ‘knowing’ a man either receives and retains the testimony of God and is saved, or he rejects it and is lost. It’s his choice, a choice enabled by God through the faith that inhabits his word.

It isn’t a matter of whether or not a man is going to show himself righteous by believing the gospel. That has nothing to do with it, so the argument that if you do the believing that makes it a works gospel is nullified. It’s a matter of if you’re going to receive the righteousness that is from God and be saved when given the opportunity. Paul is very clear that there is no boast of self righteousness in receiving the righteousness of God by faith (Romans 3:27).

 

[jaybo]

Then why are you working Jay?

I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you mean "working" as employed, I am retired. If you mean "working" as participating in a discussion, I do so because the Spirit of God within me encourages me. All Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit, who motivates them to think and act according to His direction. Christians "work" because of their love for God, not out of compulsion.

 

[jaybo]

May I ask you Jay, what is the meaning of the parable of the talents sir?

The meaning of the parable of the tenants (which is what I assume you mean) is that God has entrusted His people with the truth until He returns. The first two tenants were motivated by their desire to act on what they have been given. The third tenant was afraid of being judged when the master returned, saying "‘Master, I knew that you were a harsh man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not scatter, so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground." Clearly, being motivated by fear paralyzed him so he did no "work".

There is nothing that prevents Christians from acting as the Spirit moves them. "Doing works" is motivated by the Holy Spirit within us, but it is not to gain "points" with God. It is summed up in the saying (in both Testaments) to love your neighbor as yourself.

Let me ask you a question. What did the good Samaritan hope to gain by helping the man who had been injured?

 

[brightfame52]

People who do not believe are known as atheists for whom there is no salvation.
.

If you condition salvation on your believing, its works and denies Christ.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm only saying what Paul told the jailer: “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved..." Acts 16:31

When I say it, it's a works gospel. When Paul says it, it's not.

I agree with what Paul told the Jailor. Im saying that Paul never told the Jailor that his salvation is conditioned on him believing, for thats works.

 

[brightfame52]

You did give your view.
You say that Paul telling the jailer that he must believe in order to be saved is not Paul telling him there is the condition of believing in order to be saved. Can you explain that?

Do you see the word condition in Acts 16:31

 

[Cooper]

If you condition salvation on your believing, its works and denies Christ.

No way. Neither can I see you repenting of your sins, or pleading for forgiveness, none of which are works of the flesh.

Take special note of the last eight words.
.

 

[Hopeful]

If you condition salvation on your believing, its works and denies Christ.

Is there salvation without belief?
No.
But belief isn't a "work of the Law" that Paul wrote against.

 

[Hopeful]

I agree with what Paul told the Jailor. Im saying that Paul never told the Jailor that his salvation is conditioned on him believing, for thats works.

You had better reread the Acts 16:31 verse.

 

[Hopeful]

Do you see the word condition in Acts 16:31

Paul responded to the question..."What must I do...".
Belief is a condition of being saved.

 

[brightfame52]

No way. Neither can I see you repenting of your sins, or pleading for forgiveness, none of which are works of the flesh.

Take special note of the last eight words.
.

I see you insist on salvation, forgiveness of sins, Justification before God are all conditioned on man, on what a man does, and so denying Christ. May God have mercy on you before the last day.