Is believing/faith a work ?

[Hopeful]

I see you insist on salvation, forgiveness of sins, Justification before God are all conditioned on man, on what a man does, and so denying Christ. May God have mercy on you before the last day.

How does that deny Christ, who made those options available?
All God's gifts are "on the table", but we must accept them.
Or are you of the Calvinst camp that insists men will be saved against their own will?

 

[Cooper]

I see you insist on salvation, forgiveness of sins, Justification before God are all conditioned on man, on what a man does, and so denying Christ. May God have mercy on you before the last day.

There are works of the flesh and works of the spirit.

You are right to deny works of the flesh (do a Bible search), which cannot and do not save, but the work of the Spirit (God's grace is altogether lovely) is totally different.

http://www.cartersvillechurchofchrist.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/works_of_flesh.pdf

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[brightfame52]

There are works of the flesh and works of the spirit.

You are right to deny works of the flesh (do a Bible search), which cannot and do not save, but the work of the Spirit (God's grace is altogether lovely) is totally different.

http://www.cartersvillechurchofchrist.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/10/works_of_flesh.pdf

.

A person isnt Justified/saved by works of righteousness either, thats works and denies Christ Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

 

[Cooper]

A person isnt Justified/saved by works of righteousness either, thats works and denies Christ Titus 3:5

5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

I did not say you are justified by works of righteousness.

Works of the spirit, yes. These are not works of the flesh. God is spirit.

What Does the Bible Say About Worship God In Spirit And In Truth?

Bible verses about Worship God In Spirit And In Truth

www.openbible.info

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[Highway54]

No.
I don't know how that represents believing in and receiving the forgiveness of God in Christ.


In that case they are simply remaining in the unjustified state they were already in before they rejected the opportunity to inquire of the Christian faith.

I don't know how that represents believing in and receiving the forgiveness of God in Christ.

It is the starting point Jethro.

In that case they are simply remaining in the unjustified state they were already in before they rejected the opportunity to inquire of the Christian faith.

Fully agree sir.

 

[Highway54]

No. I don't see that they were justified by simply inquiring about the faith. You have to believe it, placing your trust in it, to be justified.


If their baptism was the result of having truly believed and received the gospel of Christ, then, yes, they were justified.


If the person's stagnation (absence of spiritual fruit/growth) is the result of unbelief - assuming it's possible to go back to unbelief - that person no longer stands justified before God in heaven because the blood he no longer believes in is no longer interceding for him before the Father on his behalf because of his unbelief. Not because of his sin, but because of his unbelief. Consequently, the sin that is now no longer covered by the blood of Jesus - because he doesn't trust and believe in it anymore - will condemn him on the Day of Christ.

Believers are kept by the power of God through faith (1 Peter 1:5). Remove faith and you no longer have that through which a person is kept by the power of God. Even Calvinism (the original teaching) believes this! For it also says the person who does not continue in faith is not saved. It just says they were never really saved to begin with.

We agree for the most part sir.

 

[Highway54]

Okay, this is the epic struggle between Paul's 'justification by faith apart from works', and James' 'justification by works done in faith'. It's a difficult matter to reconcile, but easily explained when you understand that 'justified' has two distinct definitions. One definition is 'to be made righteous', and another definition is 'to be shown to be righteous'. This is easily confirmed here: https://www.thefreedictionary.com/justify

Paul is using the word 'justified' in regard to becoming righteous by receiving the righteousness that is from God through faith in God (Romans 3:22). James is using the word 'justified' in regard to showing yourself to have the righteousness of faith through the evidence of your obedient works (James 2:18).

It's clear that the genuine believer must be justified by, both, faith and works. But not because works somehow make you righteous in God's sight, but because they are the obligatory and expected outcome of having received the righteousness of God by faith apart from works. In short, the person who can not demonstrate by his life that he has received the righteousness of God is showing the he does not really have the righteousness that is from God! And so a man must be justified by works and not faith alone (James 2:24), for what that actually means. It does not mean works somehow make a man righteous. Faith does that all by itself. It means that you must have the works that show/prove that you have been made righteous through faith in God.

It's clear that the genuine believer must be justified by, both, faith and works. But not because works somehow make you righteous in God's sight, but because they are the obligatory and expected outcome of having received the righteousness of God by faith apart from works.

I couldn't have stated this as well Jethro, I think you summed it up well with those words sir.

 

[Highway54]

Pew sitters who do nothing righteous have not failed to make themselves righteous by doing righteous works. They have failed to show themselves to possess the righteousness that comes from God by faith apart from works.

It is because they do not have faith, and as a result have not been made righteous in Christ, that they will be condemned by their unrighteous deeds. Their unrighteous deeds testifying to the fact that they are unbelievers. Just as the righteous deeds of the righteous will testify to the fact that they are believers. Matthew 25:31-46

I think that was the point of James words Jethro, they honestly had no faith in, nor any love for God.

 

[Highway54]

Paul's justification: Faith makes us righteous.

James' justification: Works show us to have the faith by which we are made righteous.

Both 'justification's' are necessary for one who claims to be saved. The danger is to think that one is made righteous by the works that, invariably, must accompany salvation. Works only show us to be saved.

Another point we could discuss Jethro, saved. Most people have no idea whatsoever of what it means.

 

[Highway54]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. If you mean "working" as employed, I am retired. If you mean "working" as participating in a discussion, I do so because the Spirit of God within me encourages me. All Christians are guided by the Holy Spirit, who motivates them to think and act according to His direction. Christians "work" because of their love for God, not out of compulsion.

f you mean "working" as participating in a discussion

Yes sir, our assignment as Christians Mat 28:19,20

 

[Highway54]

The meaning of the parable of the tenants (which is what I assume you mean) is that God has entrusted His people with the truth until He returns. The first two tenants were motivated by their desire to act on what they have been given. The third tenant was afraid of being judged when the master returned, saying "‘Master, I knew that you were a harsh man, reaping where you did not sow and gathering where you did not scatter, so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground." Clearly, being motivated by fear paralyzed him so he did no "work".

There is nothing that prevents Christians from acting as the Spirit moves them. "Doing works" is motivated by the Holy Spirit within us, but it is not to gain "points" with God. It is summed up in the saying (in both Testaments) to love your neighbor as yourself.

Let me ask you a question. What did the good Samaritan hope to gain by helping the man who had been injured?

"Doing works" is motivated by the Holy Spirit within us, but it is not to gain "points" with God.

I see you grasp the point Jay.

Let me ask you a question. What did the good Samaritan hope to gain by helping the man who had been injured?

Happiness from giving. His account being told still today. Favor with God and men. But keep in mind, it wasn't literal, just a lesson Jesus gave us to modify our behavior.

 

[jaybo]

Another point we could discuss Jethro, saved. Most people have no idea whatsoever of what it means.

How do you know what most people know? Are you playing God?

 

[brightfame52]

I did not say you are justified by works of righteousness.

Works of the spirit, yes. These are not works of the flesh. God is spirit.

What Does the Bible Say About Worship God In Spirit And In Truth?

Bible verses about Worship God In Spirit And In Truth

www.openbible.info

.

If you condition Salvation/Justification before God, forgivenss of sins, on anything you do, think, any action/activity of yours, You have denied Christ and promote a works base salvation which is condemned by scripture.

 

[Cooper]

If you condition Salvation/Justification before God, forgivenss of sins, on anything you do, think, any action/activity of yours, You have denied Christ and promote a works base salvation which is condemned by scripture.

That definition describes someone who has no room in their heart for God. The Godless ones.
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[brightfame52]

That definition describes someone who has no room in their heart for God. The Godless ones.
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Say what you want, You condition your salvation on something you do, its a denial of Grace Salvation.

 

[Cooper]

Say what you want, You condition your salvation on something you do, its a denial of Grace Salvation.

Seeing as you reject the need to do anything yourself, you are unable to come to Jesus in order to accept God's offer of salvation, because coming means work, and so does accepting.
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[Jethro Bodine]

If you condition Salvation/Justification before God, forgivenss of sins, on anything you do, think, any action/activity of yours, You have denied Christ and promote a works base salvation which is condemned by scripture.

9...if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

It's a conditional statement. IF you do this, this will happen. IF you CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, you will be saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Godless ones

Sounds like the name of a band.

 

[brightfame52]

Seeing as you reject the need to do anything yourself, you are unable to come to Jesus in order to accept God's offer of salvation, because coming means work, and so does accepting.
.

If you condition Salvation on anything you do, its a rejection of Grace Salvation, Salvation is 100% Gods doing, none of mans !

 

[brightfame52]

9...if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. Romans 10:9

It's a conditional statement. IF you do this, this will happen. IF you CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH and BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART, you will be saved.

If you condition Salvation on what you do, congrats, you believe in Salvation by works.