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  • The Gospel of Jesus Christ

    Heard of "The Gospel"? Want to know more?

    There is salvation in no other, for there is not another name under heaven having been given among men, by which it behooves us to be saved."

Is believing/faith a work ?

JLB

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I usually equate "know him" with the new creation or born again or born of the Spirit.

I agree.

We have eternal life when we are in Christ.

Jesus admonished us to remain in Him.

Do you believe a Christian that is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?
 

JLB

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But if the Lord asked you, "what works did the one on the cross next to him do to have his sins forgiven", what would be your answer?


He obeyed the Gospel, and endured to the end.


Do you believe obeying the Lord is a work of the Law of Moses?


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9
 

Edward

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At what point in our walk with Him do we “know Him”?

That's a pretty good question Brother.

Upon being born again? No, I walked away with many more questions than answers.
Upon joining a Church? Lol.
After a indeterminate amount of studying the scriptures and praying? Maybe. God gets to know us when we pay and we get to know Him predominately through reading His Word.
When one learns to hear the Lord's voice?

After an indeterminate amount of time in seeking Him? It is written than those who seek Him will find Him.
After being caught up in the spirit and having a short visit to Heaven? Well I would say so to this one!
 

Randy

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He obeyed the Gospel, and endured to the end.


Do you believe obeying the Lord is a work of the Law of Moses?


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,
Hebrews 5:9
The guy on the cross next to Jesus was a criminal who according to his own words was getting what he deserved. He reached out by faith to Jesus and received eternal life. His sins were forgiven. The other man who didn't believe in Jesus did not receive a reply as two asked something of Him.

I think choices made as choosing the right and rejecting the wrong is NOT works.

I obey Jesus out of love. We know from the written words of God what is sin. Who is our neighbor and from Paul the importance is in "faith expressing itself through love".
As Paul asked the Galations, "I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard?"

I can look back at my walk with Jesus and state its grace through faith in Jesus not by works. According to Jesus the Father gave me to Him so even that is not of myself.
 

brightfame52

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Any act of obedience to Gods command is a work, a good work. Believing on Christ is a commandment of God, so therefore a good work 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here is the greek word pisteuō and in this instance its an imperative which means:

The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative !

And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
 

brightfame52

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Yes, indeed.
But not the works of the Law that Paul wrote against being "saved by".

I am grateful to God for the grace to do the works you allude to...to hear the preaching, to believe, to turn from sin permanently, to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of my past sins, to be reborn after crucifying the old man/flesh, to pray, to read and study the bible, to faithfully endure to the end.

"Having" faith, is an action.
Works Salvation is opposed to Salvation by Grace !
 

Randy

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Any act of obedience to Gods command is a work, a good work. Believing on Christ is a commandment of God, so therefore a good work 1 Jn 3:23

And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Acts 16:31

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

The word believe here is the greek word pisteuō and in this instance its an imperative which means:

The imperative mood corresponds to the English imperative, and expresses a command to the hearer to perform a certain action by the order and authority of the one commanding. Thus, Jesus' phrase, "Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mk.1:15) is not at all an "invitation," but an absolute command requiring full obedience on the part of all hearers.

So believing here would be a good work performed by the Jailor if he obeyed the imperative !

And if his act of obeying this command caused God to save him, then he was saved because of a god work he performed !
No one comes to the Son apart from the Father. Even our faith is a gift given by God. Apparently God gave the jailer to Jesus.

This is in your favor
"The work of God is to believe in the Son"
 

Hopeful

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The truth of that doctrine is from Christ; the Author of scripture.
You are implying that God's seed can occasionally bring forth the fruit of the devil.
If you believe He promotes more sin, then that is between you and God.
God's doctrines don't, but erroneous doctrines do.
If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
1 John 1:9
Thanks be to God !
Then on to baptism in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of those past sins.
The blood of Christ can and will wash away past sins.

If we walk in the light from then on, we can always say we have no sin.
To the glory of God.
 

Adoration

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Do you believe a Christian that is removed from Christ, still has eternal life?
God does not lose his children... there is no such thing as a Christian being REMOVED from Christ.
You are suggesting that a Christian can lose their salvation. We are all a works in progress.
 

WIP

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God does not lose his children... there is no such thing as a Christian being REMOVED from Christ.
You are suggesting that a Christian can lose their salvation. We are all a works in progress.
I sit in a similar camp with JLB in this regard. I do believe one is able to walk away from or give up or reject the gift of salvation even after once tasting it.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 NKJV

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2 Peter 2:20-21 NKJV
 
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Adoration

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I sit in a similar camp with JLB in this regard. I do believe one is able to walk away from or give up or reject the gift of salvation even after once tasting it.
I respectfully disagree.... but that is alright... I have debated this issue way too many times on forums.
I should have ignored the comment... but I did not... LOL ( my bad ). Bless you.
 

Adoration

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WIP ... I should have added this statement... I do agree that NOT all who profess to be Christians are such... however that is a totally different issue... There are a lot of false teachers out there who ( I can't say what their fate is )... because I am not certain how God will deal with them... but I am very grieved in my spirit by those who CLAIM to be teachers and are actually delivering doctrines of demons.
 

brightfame52

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jlb

Grace gives us the ability to believe and obey the Gospel.

If you are saying that salvation is conditioned on ones obedience, then it can be only a reward you are entitled to, a reward for your effort, it cannot be a free gift, nor by grace. You cant mix reward, works, with grace Rom 11:6

And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

A reward honors your ability.
 

brightfame52

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"If we walk in the light." Isn't that a work?
Yes but its a work after Salvation, not for Salvation, and its a work that God after saving one, has ordained that they walk therein Eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You need to be careful and distinguish as to good works being the cause of Salvation and being the fruit and evidence of Salvation. Big difference friend, and a very critical one.
 
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Edward

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God does not lose his children... there is no such thing as a Christian being REMOVED from Christ.
You are suggesting that a Christian can lose their salvation. We are all a works in progress.

That has been debated forever almost and it's a very good question, seems important.

I *think* you might be talking about two things. Can a Christian lose his salvation and can a believer turn his back on God and walk away from Him...and still be saved?

I don't think that anyone can be rejected by God if they have a repentant heart and believe in Him and what He did or us.

But there are a few scriptures that will make one raise his eyebrows. Revelation 3:5, Psalm 69:28

That verse from Revelation sounds like a warning to me. Can a person get saved and accept the Lord but then go home and sit on his blessed assurance? Not join a church. not read the Word like he should or even pray, and still be saved? Or as some would say, these were never really saved at all...? But if that's so then...we don't receive salvation when we pray for it but receive it later, after showing due diligence? I dunno. Not a simple question to answer for sure. I guess that's where the fear and trembling come in to play.
 

Adoration

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That has been debated forever almost and it's a very good question, seems important.

I *think* you might be talking about two things. Can a Christian lose his salvation and can a believer turn his back on God and walk away from Him...and still be saved?

I don't think that anyone can be rejected by God if they have a repentant heart and believe in Him and what He did or us.

But there are a few scriptures that will make one raise his eyebrows. Revelation 3:5, Psalm 69:28

That verse from Revelation sounds like a warning to me. Can a person get saved and accept the Lord but then go home and sit on his blessed assurance? Not join a church. not read the Word like he should or even pray, and still be saved? Or as some would say, these were never really saved at all...? But if that's so then...we don't receive salvation when we pray for it but receive it later, after showing due diligence? I dunno. Not a simple question to answer for sure. I guess that's where the fear and trembling come in to play.
I REALLY enjoyed reading your post Edward... You leave room for mystery of it all... and I like that... because truly there are things that we just cannot know because we cannot see the inner heart of another. I am good with not knowing certain things.. and you have addressed all this in your post... It is indeed NOT a simple question... Thank you for this brilliant sharing.
 
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