Is believing/faith a work ?

[Adoration]

I *think* you might be talking about two things. Can a Christian lose his salvation and can a believer turn his back on God and walk away from Him...and still be saved?

I guess I am talking about two different things.... I believe a Christian is sealed with salvation at the time of their conversion... They will be judged accordingly to how they lived their lives.... It's a done deal... thus the gift of salvation.
I think we all are guilty of at times turning our backs on God and walking away from Him.

My life now at 58 years old is much different than my life even 20 years ago... I don't face many temptations today... therefore my behaviour ( if you will ) is not filled with what one would call the BIG SINS... LOL
My walk is now at the place of focusing on the finer things... the actual condition of my heart...
It is my desire to please Christ... but that is because I have been convinced that I am a precious and loved child of God.
I firmly believe that until a Christian receives this heart knowledge (knowing that they know that they know that God loves them personally)... what often occurs is obedience of "works"... following a list of do's and don'ts.

There is a distinct difference between hearing.... For God so loved the world... to .... God loves me... and I don't think anyone really blossoms until such a time.

This is the problem with judging salvation by works... humans only see the outside... and sometimes we struggle terribly... and fall so completely short for whatever reason... thus turning our backs on God. I believe He understands and sees absolutely everything... and HE has much compassion and GRACE.

 

[WIP]

Yes but its a work after Salvation, not for Salvation, and its a work that God after saving one, has ordained that they walk therein Eph 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

You need to be careful and distinguish as to good works being the cause of Salvation and being the fruit and evidence of Salvation. Big difference friend, and a very critical one.

Agree.

 

[Adoration]

Agree.

I think the problem here is what one would call a "work"... Relationships take work... Yes they do... but as a Christian... our job is to seek God with all our hearts... that is the work... HE is the one who accomplishes the change in us. What we have to do is BELIEVE. I guess I have a problem with what people are defining as "work"... because all too often... this turns into that long list of do's and don'ts... and that becomes legalism.

 

[WIP]

I guess I am talking about two different things.... I believe a Christian is sealed with salvation at the time of their conversion... They will be judged accordingly to how they lived their lives.... It's a done deal... thus the gift of salvation.
I think we all are guilty of at times turning our backs on God and walking away from Him.

My life now at 58 years old is much different than my life even 20 years ago... I don't face many temptations today... therefore my behaviour ( if you will ) is not filled with what one would call the BIG SINS... LOL
My walk is now at the place of focusing on the finer things... the actual condition of my heart...
It is my desire to please Christ... but that is because I have been convinced that I am a precious and loved child of God.
I firmly believe that until a Christian receives this heart knowledge (knowing that they know that they know that God loves them personally)... what often occurs is obedience of "works"... following a list of do's and don'ts.

There is a distinct difference between hearing.... For God so loved the world... to .... God loves me... and I don't think anyone really blossoms until such a time.

This is the problem with judging salvation by works... humans only see the outside... and sometimes we struggle terribly... and fall so completely short for whatever reason... thus turning our backs on God. I believe He understands and sees absolutely everything... and HE has much compassion and GRACE.

I don't believe any of us is qualified to judge salvation at any time and that includes ourselves. We lie and deceive ourselves all the time. God looks at one's heart and not their outward appearance.

The Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look at his appearance or at his physical stature, because I have refused him. For the Lord does not see as man sees; for man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart.”
1 Samuel 16:7 NKJV

 

[Adoration]

I don't believe any of us is qualified to judge salvation at any time and that includes ourselves. We lie and deceive ourselves all the time. God looks at one's heart and not their outward appearance.

Tell that to the legalists.... the ones who teach one can LOSE their salvation. It's a slippery slope.

 

[WIP]

I think the problem here is what one would call a "work"... Relationships take work... Yes they do... but as a Christian... our job is to seek God with all our hearts... that is the work... HE is the one who accomplishes the change in us. What we have to do is BELIEVE. I guess I have a problem with what people are defining as "work"... because all too often... this turns into that long list of do's and don'ts... and that becomes legalism.

People like to throw around the legalism label as if it is a bad thing. Legalism doesn't necessarily have to be a swear word. What is wrong with having a legalistic view when it comes to the decisions we make, how we show our love, etc. Jesus said, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16 NKJV Is it legalistic to follow His command?

 

[Adoration]

Legalism doesn't necessarily have to be a swear word. What is wrong with having a legalistic view when it comes to the decisions we make, how we show our love, etc. Jesus said, "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven." Matthew 5:16 NKJV Is it legalistic to follow His command?

OH dear.... I am not going there... I do not like the word... and I am not sorry that I do not like the word... It reminds me of a prisoner... In Christ we have freedom... and legalism births hypocrisy amongst a great many other things.
I do not desire to debate this issue... so... I will bow out gracefully.... God bless you WIP

 

[WIP]

OH dear.... I am not going there... I do not like the word... and I am not sorry that I do not like the word... It reminds me of a prisoner... In Christ we have freedom... and legalism births hypocrisy amongst a great many other things.
I do not desire to debate this issue... so... I will bow out gracefully.... God bless you WIP

Something to keep in mind. This discussion is in the Theology forum. We should be supporting our views with Scripture references. Otherwise we are only expressing our opinions and not discussing the Word of God.

 

[Adoration]

Something to keep in mind. This discussion is in the Theology forum. We should be supporting our views with Scripture references. Otherwise we are only expressing our opinions and not discussing the Word of God.

Well then... I disqualify myself from this discussion... God bless you.

 

[WIP]

Well then... I disqualify myself from this discussion... God bless you.

I don't mean this disrespectfully but it then sounds like you hold your opinion to a higher level than what Scripture says. Somehow I seriously doubt that is true but without providing the Scripture references to show why you believe what you do, then all we're left with is your opinion.

 

[WIP]

A debate is a discussion with the sole purpose of winning the argument or disagreement or proving the other person is wrong. A theology discussion is for the purpose of study and to gain deeper understanding. If we truly seek after the truth, study of Scripture is certainly a great place to start. It's only a debate if one chooses to make it such.

 

[Adoration]

I don't mean this disrespectfully but it then sounds like you hold your opinion to a higher level than what Scripture says. Somehow I seriously doubt that is true but without providing the Scripture references to show why you believe what you do, then all we're left with is your opinion.

You are a moderator here... you have told me that because I have not used scripture to back up my posts... that I should not be responding... I have gracefully chosen to withdraw from further comments... HOW is that holding my opinion higher than scripture?? I do not pay attention to which columns threads are made in. I'm not sure how else to respond to you. You have made an assumption about me that is untrue... I simply choose to speak from my heart... and if that is improper.. .than I'm not sure what else can be said. Sorry you feel this way.

 

[WIP]

You are a moderator here... you have told me that because I have not used scripture to back up my posts... that I should not be responding... I have gracefully chosen to withdraw from further comments... HOW is that holding my opinion higher than scripture?? I do not pay attention to which columns threads are made in. I'm not sure how else to respond to you. You have made an assumption about me that is untrue... I simply choose to speak from my heart... and if that is improper.. .than I'm not sure what else can be said. Sorry you feel this way.

Now you're not speaking truth. I never said you should not be responding. I only provided a reminder that this is the Theology forum so there are protocols that do come into place. The only assumption that I made was that I doubt that you hold your opinion higher than Scripture. If I was wrong, I apologize, and then I will pray for you.

 

[Adoration]

Now you're not speaking truth. I never said you should not be responding. I only provided a reminder that this is the Theology forum so there are protocols that do come into place. The only assumption that I made was that I doubt that you hold your opinion higher than Scripture. If I was wrong, I apologize, and then I will pray for you.

I was respecting your voice as a moderator... I did not realize this was a debate thread... I don't debate... I converse... that is my style if you will...

Something to keep in mind. This discussion is in the Theology forum. We should be supporting our views with Scripture references. Otherwise we are only expressing our opinions and not discussing the Word of God.

The above is what you said to me... NO you did not tell me NOT to contribute... but suggested that I should be using scripture to back up what I say.... I respected your view... and tried to bow out gracefully.

I'm sorry that this has become an issue.... it should have been a simple withdrawl.

 

[Adoration]

I humbly apologize for causing strife... I think it's time to take a break... and work on my puzzle.

 

[Adoration]

I am very thankful that these forums have STAFF who are deeply committed to CHRIST.
WIP ... I absolutely appreciate the fact that you reached out to me... THANK YOU.
THAT is what Christianity should be.

 

[Hopeful]

Obviously its many things you dont see lol

At least I'm not seeing things that are not there.

 

[Hopeful]

"If we walk in the light." Isn't that a work?

It is an action credited to the grace and mercy of God.
It is not a work of the Law like what Paul wrote against.

 

[Hopeful]

I sit in a similar camp with JLB in this regard. I do believe one is able to walk away from or give up or reject the gift of salvation even after once tasting it.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Hebrews 6:4-6 NKJV

For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2 Peter 2:20-21 NKJV

Don't your kindly provided verses counter "what you believe"?

 

[Hopeful]

That has been debated forever almost and it's a very good question, seems important.

I *think* you might be talking about two things. Can a Christian lose his salvation and can a believer turn his back on God and walk away from Him...and still be saved?

I don't think that anyone can be rejected by God if they have a repentant heart and believe in Him and what He did or us.

But there are a few scriptures that will make one raise his eyebrows. Revelation 3:5, Psalm 69:28

That verse from Revelation sounds like a warning to me. Can a person get saved and accept the Lord but then go home and sit on his blessed assurance? Not join a church. not read the Word like he should or even pray, and still be saved? Or as some would say, these were never really saved at all...? But if that's so then...we don't receive salvation when we pray for it but receive it later, after showing due diligence? I dunno. Not a simple question to answer for sure. I guess that's where the fear and trembling come in to play.

As all will undergo a final judgment, wouldn't our salvation be pending that last big test?
I think so.
It is written..."For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (1 Peter 4:17)