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Is believing/faith a work ?

rogerg said:
brightframe52, I read it and totally agree. It explains what I was thinking much more clearly
than I did, plus, it increased my perception and understanding. thanks much
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Its all good brother, I read it ever so often and every time I see something different and it helps me a lot. I do want to say, even though I agree with that article and maybe a few more, I dont 100 % agree with everything that Baptist group puts out.
 
brightfame52 said:
Its all good brother, I read it ever so often and every time I see something different and it helps me a lot. I do want to say, even though I agree with that article and maybe a few more, I dont 100 % agree with everything that Baptist group puts out.
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Yeah, to be honest, I don't follow the doctrines of any particular religious group - I just read and trust the
Bible alone and try to realize what it is saying.
 
journeyman said:
believe on me through their word; Jn.17:20

How can people not understand what he means? I firmly believe theologians somewhere along the line, took the writings of Paul and misinterpreted them so badly the true meaning of them is unrecognizable.
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But you have a clear knowledge of what Paul meant? And theologians don't? Really???

Okay, I'll bite. What is the "true" meaning of Paul's writings?
 
John 6:29

Jesus said “this is the work of God - that you believe in him whom he hath sent”

Work - ERGON - believe (from PISTIS, the word for faith)

Looks like our head honcho says faith is a work

Look Who’s talking in John 6:29

That should settle it - but men’s traditions (theology) gets in the way

Bible says faith is a work; believing is a work

Know it. Live it.
 
Hello Jaybo.
Post 578 is one example, where 1Cor.4 is discussed, but I've been saying it all along.
Paul never even implied sinners are incapable of repentance.
But that's not the core of the heresy. The very center of error is attributing what our King suffered to the wrath of our Father, instead of the truth, which is that the Son was chastised as every one of us is. In him we are one.
Read Heb.12 and Heb.5:8. Look at them carefully. He's saying persecution is a way God chastens his people. Why? To teach us how we should react with loving kindness toward those who hate? Why? Because that's what our Superstar taught by his cross, because that's how his Father is every day.
Sin? Hammer in one hand, spike in the other, because that's what the Bible likens our sin to.
Nailing him to that cross is the greatest sin against God ever committed on this earth...and he bore it.
He's still bearing it, because his disciples are persecuted the same way (as he said they would be) and we are all one with him.
Now I haven't been beaten like that for my faith, but the point is I'm growing in him, like we all are.
I can see the prostitute Jesus forgave, listening to him preaching. Going home that night and weeping because she knew about herself. (And that's really the purpose of Gods' law.) So she went to him.
God sets up the curcumstances. What people do with them is their choice.
 
Episcopius said:
Bible says faith is a work; believing is a work
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Not only is it a work, but if the requirement is that it must be produced of ourselves for salvation, then in addition to it being a work, it is also a law - that is, anything that is required for salvation makes having it a law
 
The “of ourselves” is a little tricky - God’s prevenient grace enables one to believe - it is a synergy of God’s grace enabling one to believe, and the believer accepting that grace and making a decision. So I see God and the believer BOTH involved in the WORK.
 
Episcopius said:
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin

Romans 14:23
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As things like adultery, theft, lying, hate, addictions, racial bias, ageism, and the like are not of faith, they are indeed sins.
But so too are letting the hungry go hungry and leaving the homeless on the streets.
Being a Christian is a lot of work.
 
But of course we ourselves don’t do any of the work, lest we could say “look at me -aren’t I terrific? I have a part in my salvation!
 
Episcopius said:
What is your scripture for this “making it a law” business, rogerg?
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Episcopius,
If someone believes that faith is a requirement for salvation, such that they must try to satisfy it of themselves (which many do) and that faith is not given as a gift from God, then the requirement becomes unto them a law which they try to satisfy to be saved (sorry for run-on sentence). If they didn't perceive it as a requirement of law, then why would they feel compelled to produce/generate faith at all since it wouldn't be a requirement for salvation in the first place? However, their desire to do so confirms, whether realized or not, they place themselves under law, and demonstrates the work of law is written upon their hearts. As long as someone perceives their faith, or anything else for that matter, as being a prerequisite to salvation, then this dilemma remains for them. My understanding is that faith is given fully and completely as a gift from God, and it is the result of salvation, not its cause, so by that, it is understood that no work for faith or salvation on the recipient's part is either required or legal.
Now, just to be clear, in my prior reply to you, I wasn't trying to say there is such a law - I don't believe that at all true, I was trying to say that for those who try to produce faith of themselves, they make that into a law for themselves. I think it is possible that by so doing, at least as far as salvation is concerned, they may violate the law of no law; that is, they may violate of law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus and conform to the law of sin and death.
So, I know that I didn't address all of the aspects of this that might be germane to it, and I'm sure there are logical angles I've missed, but will try to provide if you have questions or disagreements. I'm not the best writer so I wouldn't be surprised at all if it sounds like total gobbledygook.
 
Episcopius said:
The “of ourselves” is a little tricky - God’s prevenient grace enables one to believe - it is a synergy of God’s grace enabling one to believe, and the believer accepting that grace and making a decision. So I see God and the believer BOTH involved in the WORK.
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What do you think these verses mean? It has to be EITHER of grace or of works, cannot be of both. And it can't
be that it is of works, so, that leaves only by grace with works eliminated.

[Rom 4:4 KJV] 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
[Rom 11:6 KJV] 6 And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
 
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