Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

jlb

It's called grace; the God given ability to do what we can not do without it.

Which is the New Birth. The New Birth is Gods act of Grace, then a person believes by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace

 

[rogerg]

It’s by grace we believe. For the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation… for those who believe.

Even using your own logic, which I nevertheless disagree with, then, if grace must bring belief (as you said),
and belief must bring salvation, then either everyone must become saved, because, according to you,
grace is unto everyone, otherwise, it must be that it is only to certain people who then believe and become saved, right? So, it is either to everyone or only to certain people - according to you whoever receives that grace must become saved. If everyone receives grace, but they don't believe and are not saved, again according to you, it couldn't be grace that they've received.

For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes…

You are describing the "what", not the "how". What I described is the "how". That is,
I agree that those who are saved believe in Christ - no doubt about that - but the point being how do they come to believe in Christ in the first place? I say true belief can only come to someone as a gift from God, not of/from themselves, otherwise, their faith would in themselves in that it has brought themselves salvation - making them their own saviour. You're smart, read the following verse closely and think about it - a mind blinded cannot of itself believe because how can a mind unblind itself if it is satan who is causing that blindness?

[2Co 4:4 KJV] 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

 

[JLB]

jlb



Which is the New Birth. The New Birth is Gods act of Grace, then a person believes by Grace Acts 18:27

27 And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace

Yes, we believe through grace; the Spirit of grace.

This is the principal I am discussing. By grace, the enabling power of God to believe, and therefore obey the Gospel; the Gospel truth!


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-23




Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. Acts 18:24-28


They way a person believes is through grace!

• he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

Thanks for making my point.


Only those who believe are saved.




JLB

 

[JLB]

if grace must bring belief (as you said),

I never said grace brings belief.


I said it is grace that enables us to believe; to obey


Grace is the Spirit, the Spirit of grace that is present in the preaching of the Gospel, and is the power of God unto salvation, to everyone who believes.


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.
1 Peter 1:22-23


you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit…
having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

• through the word of God; the Gospel message

JLB

 

[journeymanisnothing]

The idea that nobody can believe the things Jesus did, makes everything he did unnecessary.

 

[rogerg]

It’s by grace we believe. For the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation… for those who believe.

You didn't say this? See the "it's by grace we believe".

 

[rogerg]

said it is grace that enables us to believe; to obey

Even using the above (again, which I totally disagree with), if it doesn't result in belief, how can it be grace: it achieves nothing. If it enables belief, then we must believe, otherwise, it is a force with no purpose. Can man override or overpower that which is from God?

 

[Randy]

No. No exceptions to God's salvation plan - everyone is saved in the same way: Everyone who is saved is saved by Jesus.
Everyone saved by God was chosen by God. God used Saul but He used a lot of people during that period too,
that doesn't mean they were exceptions or saved on a different basis than anyone else was.
Where is it stated that he was a salvation plan exception? Jesus saved him on the road to Dimarcus, period

Everyone is saved through faith in Jesus. Paul came to believe because of his encounter with Jesus. Did Jesus speak to you as He did Paul from heaven? If no then its not all the same is it? Paul was baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit after that encounter when Jesus sent Ananias to him and Jesus noted at that time Paul was praying.

 

[brightfame52]

Yes, we believe through grace; the Spirit of grace.

This is the principal I am discussing. By grace, the enabling power of God to believe, and therefore obey the Gospel; the Gospel truth!


Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,
1 Peter 1:22-23




Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he desired to cross to Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him; and when he arrived, he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ. Acts 18:24-28


They way a person believes is through grace!

• he greatly helped those who had believed through grace; for he vigorously refuted the Jews publicly, showing from the Scriptures that Jesus is the Christ.

Thanks for making my point.


Only those who believe are saved.




JLB

I dont think we have the same point, because my point is believing through Grace is the equivalent to believing because one was born again.

 

[brightfame52]

Everyone is saved through faith in Jesus. Paul came to believe because of his encounter with Jesus. Did Jesus speak to you as He did Paul from heaven? If no then its not all the same is it? Paul was baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit after that encounter when Jesus sent Ananias to him and Jesus noted at that time Paul was praying.

People are saved by the Faith of Jesus Christ, or the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, not by putting our own faith in Jesus Christ, then the saved one is given Faith to believe in Jesus Christ their Saviour. If you say you are saved by your own act of Faith, then it becomes Salvation by your merit, your work, that God reciprocated your act of Faith with Salvation.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

People are saved by the Faith of Jesus Christ, or the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, not by putting our own faith in Jesus Christ, then the saved one is given Faith to believe in Jesus Christ their Saviour.

In other words, people are saved without faith in Jesus.
If salvation is by an arbitrary choice God makes, everything our Savior did to give mankind faith in him is pointless.

 

[rogerg]

Everyone is saved through faith in Jesus. Paul came to believe because of his encounter with Jesus. Did Jesus speak to you as He did Paul from heaven? If no then its not all the same is it? Paul was baptized and filled with the Holy Spirit after that encounter when Jesus sent Ananias to him and Jesus noted at that time Paul was praying.

No, everyone who becomes saved, becomes saved because OF the faith of Christ, from which, they receive faith IN Christ. Faith comes as a gift of the Father as a fruit of the Holy Spirit. To have the Holy Spirit, one must be saved.
If what you claim above is true, then what you are actually saying is that salvation is of ourselves, making us our own saviour, not Christ. Do you believe that Christ is the Saviour? Based upon what you're posting it doesn't seem that you do. If you don't believe He is, then just say so. If you do believe He is, then what does that mean?

I've already answered the points you're raising here before and I'm not going to
go through them all again now. If you're interested, go back and reread my prior posts.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Jn.18:37

We all understand the importance of testimony. A witness who couldn't be understood would be useless.
In all seriousness, think about why our Lord said and did everything he did. John says,

these are written that you may believe Jn.20:31

Gods' cause was everything his Son said and did. The reason was so people would believe.

 

[brightfame52]

In other words, people are saved without faith in Jesus.
If salvation is by an arbitrary choice God makes, everything our Savior did to give mankind faith in him is pointless.

Read what I just posted.

 

[JLB]

Even using the above (again, which I totally disagree with), if it doesn't result in belief, how can it be grace: it achieves nothing. If it enables belief, then we must believe, otherwise, it is a force with no purpose. Can man override or overpower that which is from God?

Your post is no more than human reasoning.

Please address the actual scriptures I presented.


JLB

 

[JLB]

I dont think we have the same point, because my point is believing through Grace is the equivalent to believing because one was born again.

Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved. Acts 4:10


The only way a person can be saved is by hearing and believing in Jesus Christ; the Gospel message of salvation.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16

• whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

Only by believing is a person saved.


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

 

[brightfame52]

rogerg

everyone who becomes saved, becomes saved because OF the faith of Christ, from which, they receive faith IN Christ

Exactly !

Faith comes as a gift of the Father as a fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Yes, From the Father, through the Son and by the Spirit

To have the Holy Spirit, one must be saved.

Everyone The Father Chose from the beginning, the Son redeemed and Justified, the same the Spirit gives Spiritual Life because that sinners sins have been put away, after the Spirit gives life, we have the fruit of the Spirit, Faith

If what you claim above is true, then what you are actually saying is that salvation is of ourselves, making us our own saviour, not Christ.

Unfortunately most of professing christianity believes salvation is of themselves or a cooperative venture with God which at least makes them co saviours

 

[brightfame52]

In fact, the reason I was born and came into the world is to testify to the truth. Jn.18:37

We all understand the importance of testimony. A witness who couldn't be understood would be useless.
In all seriousness, think about why our Lord said and did everything he did. John says,

these are written that you may believe Jn.20:31

Gods' cause was everything his Son said and did. The reason was so people would believe.

Both of those scriptures are concerning the born again Sheep and they shall believe because they Sheep.

 

[Randy]

People are saved by the Faith of Jesus Christ, or the faithfulness of Jesus Christ, not by putting our own faith in Jesus Christ, then the saved one is given Faith to believe in Jesus Christ their Saviour. If you say you are saved by your own act of Faith, then it becomes Salvation by your merit, your work, that God reciprocated your act of Faith with Salvation.

Its sanctified by faith in Christ. Its those who listen and learn from the Father that go to Christ Jesus by Faith. I think we all believe Gods faithfulness endures forever.

 

[rogerg]

Your post is no more than human reasoning.

Please address the actual scriptures I presented.

These verses?

Since you have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit in sincere love of the brethren, love one another fervently with a pure heart, having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever.

BTW - It is strange for you to say that is "no more than human reasoning". Of course, what other kind of reasoning would you expect me to use? That's what we all use- but that doesn't mean its conclusion is wrong.

Anyway, I'm not sure what your point is with the above-- the verse says, "through the Spirit", doesn't it?
Through the Spirit means, well, through the Spirit, which means it not being of ourselves, but of obeying the truth by the power of the Spirit: through the Spirit we obey by having been given the fruit of the Spirit as a gift. So then, only through and by the Spirit, can one become born-again, and becoming born again, exhibiting those spiritual fruits. It also says, " through the word of God which lives and abides forever.". By saying, "lives and abides forever", means that it is alive, thereby making it far, far greater than just words on a page - instead, that it is God Himself who alone makes someone born-again- it is not ourselves!