Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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heartwashed
Oh Yes it is. But what makes it a contrast with works, is that Faith/believing in the matter of Salvation is Spiritual fruit from the New Birth, so technically its not our own naturally, but if one says their faith/believing came from them prior to the New birth, and they were still natural, unregenerate, then by default it becomes your works!
Wrong, and its saved by grace through Faith, not saved through faith Eph 2:8
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Paul is saying here neither Salvation, Grace, and Faith are of yourselves, but the whole package " Salvation by grace through Faith" is the Gift of God. Not of yourself,
In fact Paul teaches in Acts 18:27 that we believe because of grace
27 And when he was disposed to pass into Achaia, the brethren wrote, exhorting the disciples to receive him: who, when he was come, helped them much which had believed through grace:
But if you insist that you believed by your own freewill prior to new birth, its a work, your work, and you have occasion to boast.
Correct, so keep that in mind of you believe people are saved because of their own faith or believing, thats contrary to grace !
Salvation is His gift to us.With faith being a faith in Christ, and the completion of all needed for salvation by Him: He alone is Saviour in all ways.
and included within the "all ways" is that the elect believe/have faith in Him as Saviour. If we don't believe that He achieved all of that solely through/by Himself with us being only the beneficiaries of it, then we do not believe in Christ.
[2Co 4:4 KJV]
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
[Gal 2:16 KJV]
16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
There is a final judgement coming, and man's salvation is still in the balance, until then.You constantly condition salvation on the works and merit of man.
The only "works" that do not apply to salvation are the "works" of the Mosaic Law.In the scripture that you have quoted, Jesus is conceding salvation by works to those who insist upon it, and then bringing it back around to the fact that a man can only be justified by faith.
We are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9); and therefore if faith is a work, we are not saved through faith.
But we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8); and therefore faith is not a work.
That is correct.I will only say to all of this that if anyone calls on the name of the Lord they shall be saved (Romans 10:13).
It is not, "if anyone is saved they will call on the name of the Lord."
These things indicate to me that we are saved as the result of something that we do (calling on the name of the Lord); which is not a work.
We must decide to do that thing in order to do it. It is not forced upon us.
Works that do not save us are defined as "works of righteousness which we have done" in Titus 3:5.The only "works" that do not apply to salvation are the "works" of the Mosaic Law.
The works Paul wrote against were circumcision, sabbath keeping, tithing, and dietary guide-lines.
He may have also touched on other Mosaic ordinances to a lesser degree.
I was happy to repent of sin and get baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of past sins.
And I will gladly endure faithfully until my end.
To the glory of God.
The anti-works doctrine, perhaps not intentionally, has deprived men of some very necessary things needed to walk as Christ walked.
You didn't understand the post. The works are not our works, they are the works performedWe are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9); and therefore if faith is a work, we are not saved through faith.
But we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8); and therefore faith is not a work.
In the scripture that you have quoted, Jesus is conceding salvation by works to those who insist upon it, and then bringing it back around to the fact that a man can only be justified by faith.
Faith is a work. But it is Christ's faith/work, not ours, and that alone is the work/faith that saves! Christ's faithfulness/obedience to the Father brought us salvation. It is imputed to those whom He has chosen to salvation. It is by/because of that imputation that makes it not work for us- it is a gift to us. Christ's faith is the faith of Ephesians, ours isn't. Look at the following. Do you see the "through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith?We are not saved by works (Ephesians 2:9); and therefore if faith is a work, we are not saved through faith.
But we are saved through faith (Ephesians 2:8); and therefore faith is not a work.
If we need to do something, anything, to get it, it's not a gift. A gift must be a gift in all ways, otherwise, it ain't one.All we need to do to obtain it is submit to Him.
I'll concede that we are saved by Christ's work of salvation within us. However, that is departing from scriptural guidelines to make a statement, although true, that is contrary to the literal rendering of scripture; which says that we are not saved by works. Why do that? We certainly are not saved by our works...and if faith is our work, even a work, we are not saved by it. And yet we are saved through our faith according to scripture. And therefore faith is not a work; that is, it is not a work that we do to save ourselves; while our faith does save us; and therefore faith is not a work.You didn't understand the post. The works are not our works, they are the works performed
and achieved solely by Christ.
I don't understand what you're saying. Jesus is conceding no such thing - it is just the opposite in fact.
Faith is a work. But it is Christ's faith/work, not ours, and that alone is the work/faith that saves! Christ's faithfulness/obedience to the Father brought us salvation. It is imputed to those whom He has chosen to salvation. It is by/because of that imputation that makes it not work for us- it is a gift to us. Christ's faith is the faith of Ephesians, ours isn't. Look at the following. Do you see the "through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith?
[Phl 3:9 KJV] 9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
I suppose you realize that those "given" faith don't commit iniquity?Works that do not save us are defined as "works of righteousness which we have done" in Titus 3:5.
That includes '"prophesying in His name, casting out devils in His name, and doing many wonderful works in His name" (Matthew 7:22). Notice that Jesus said to those who did such works, "I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity." (Matthew 7:23)
Agreed, circumcision and diet won't "save us".Note that the fact that our works do not save us, does not deprive us of a motivation for doing good works.
Agreed.We have been regenerated and renewed in the Holy Ghost; and this produces attitudes and behaviour that are conducive to good works.
That isn't what the scripture says..."And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." (Rom 5:5)The love of God has been shed abroad in our hearts because we are saved (Romans 5:5);
OK !and this love is not impractical (1 John 3:17-18).
We are not saved by our good works; but we are saved unto our good works.
That is inane.If we need to do something, anything, to get it, it's not a gift. A gift must be a gift in all ways, otherwise, it ain't one.
It's just as simple as that.
Neither is repenting of sin and getting baptized, in the context of Mosaic works not being able to save us.I'll concede that we are saved by Christ's work of salvation within us. However, that is departing from scriptural guidelines to make a statement, although true, that is contrary to the literal rendering of scripture; which says that we are not saved by works. Why do that? We certainly are not saved by our works...and if faith is our work, even a work, we are not saved by it. And yet we are saved through our faith according to scripture. And therefore faith is not a work; that is, it is not a work that we do to save ourselves; while our faith does save us; and therefore faith is not a work.
I suppose you realize that those "given" faith don't commit iniquity?
Those who choose to believe also don't commit iniquity.
God won't force one, or allow one to choose, to believe His words and then turn them over to the devil to do the devil's works.
Agreed, circumcision and diet won't "save us".
Agreed.
That isn't what the scripture says..."And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us." (Rom 5:5)
OK !
What do you suppose bad works, sin, will garner?
Not salvation, that is for sure.
Neither is repenting of sin and getting baptized, in the context of Mosaic works not being able to save us.
It is this action of believing (and therefore obeying), that causes faith to be activated; to come alive to produce the intended divine result... whether salvation, healing, provision, justification or righteousness.
You still condition salvation on man.People became vain in their thinking...after they knew God,
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Rom.1:21
Calvanists must ignore this, as it proves mankind knew God and their hearts were not always dark.
All i can say about this is that you condition salvation on the will of man !I will only say to all of this that if anyone calls on the name of the Lord they shall be saved (Romans 10:13).
It is not, "if anyone is saved they will call on the name of the Lord."
These things indicate to me that we are saved as the result of something that we do (calling on the name of the Lord); which is not a work.
We must decide to do that thing in order to do it. It is not forced upon us.
That is also what Paul did according to what I was saying.All i can say about this is that you condition salvation on the will of man !
I have no problem with Paul , its you that conditions salvation on man !That is also what Paul did according to what I was saying.
He wrote to us that "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13).
Not that "whosoever is saved will call upon the name of the Lord."
I believe that you are the one who has the cart before the horse.
Romans 10:13 was written by Paul.I have no problem with Paul , its you that conditions salvation on man !