Is believing/faith a work ?

[brightfame52]

rogerg

Because they were written into the book from the foundation of the world, is WHY they are faithful. It is only by Christ, not of ourselves.

Amen, believers are first faithful by imputation, Christs faithfulness is imputed to them, and He also causes us to be faithful.

Eph 1:1

Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus

1 Cor 7:25
Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

 

[Randy]

Because they were written into the book from the foundation of the world, is WHY they are faithful. It is only by Christ, not of ourselves.


[1Pe 1:2 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

[Rom 1:4-5 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

The book would start with Adam which is from the foundation of the world. The being conformed to Christ is according to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus was in Gods plan of salvation before the world began.

The gospel message is preached with many warnings. If people are in and apparently according to you have no say so in that matter such warnings are useless and Jesus was wasting His time.

 

[rogerg]

The book would start with Adam which is from the foundation of the world. The being conformed to Christ is according to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus was in Gods plan of salvation before the world began.

The world began before Adam was created, although Adam's name was probably one of those written into it from its foundation (creation).

 

[brightfame52]

The book would start with Adam which is from the foundation of the world. The being conformed to Christ is according to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus was in Gods plan of salvation before the world began.

The gospel message is preached with many warnings. If people are in and apparently according to you have no say so in that matter such warnings are useless and Jesus was wasting His time.

The Book of Life isn't a literal book, I dont believe. Its all in Gods Mind, and I believe its the Book of Election, all the men and women God chose for Himself in Christ the Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world. I believe Adam was in it, but not cain who belong to that wicked one !

 

[Randy]

The world began before Adam was created, although Adam's name was probably one of those written into it from its foundation (creation).

In the six days God "created" before He rested.

 

[Randy]

The Book of Life isn't a literal book, I dont believe. Its all in Gods Mind, and I believe its the Book of Election, all the men and women God chose for Himself in Christ the Lamb Slain from the foundation of the world. I believe Adam was in it, but not cain who belong to that wicked one !

It wouldn't be a "book" of election if it's not a book. It is spoken of as a book with the names of the wicked being removed. And Christs assurance of never blotting out the names of that book of life for those who overcome.

This message went to the "church"
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches

But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

 

[rogerg]

In the six days God "created" before He rested.

And? The names were written BEFORE Adam was created, just as the light was created before the firmament.
Not a question of when God rested.

 

[rogerg]

But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

Everyone whose name was not written into the book before the foundation of the world
are those who would sin against God

 

[rogerg]

Everyone whose name was not written into the book before the foundation of the world
are those who would sin against God

Typo: I just noticed that I wrote, "before the foundation of the world". I should have instead written, "from the foundation of the world" Sorry for any misunderstanding this may have caused.

 

[brightfame52]

It wouldn't be a "book" of election if it's not a book. It is spoken of as a book with the names of the wicked being removed. And Christs assurance of never blotting out the names of that book of life for those who overcome.

This message went to the "church"
Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who is victorious will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches

But the Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against me, I will blot out of my book.

What kind of ink you think God used ? I just dont think its a literal book. Jesus telling some that He wont blot their name out of the book of life is perhaps reassuring His True People of their Eternal Security in Him, its like Him saying Jn 10:28

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What makes them worthy, dressed in white ? Its Christs imputed righteousness, none else can be worthy in themselves. Christs righteousness is our white robe Rev 19:8

And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

And Christ is our righteousness by the doing of God 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

If Im worthy at all, its because I will by the grace of God be found clothed in His righteousness !

 

[brightfame52]

Typo: I just noticed that I wrote, "before the foundation of the world". I should have instead written, "from the foundation of the world" Sorry for any misunderstanding this may have caused.

Yet I believe they are synonymous !

 

[brightfame52]

randy

The book would start with Adam which is from the foundation of the world. The being conformed to Christ is according to the foreknowledge of God. Jesus was in Gods plan of salvation before the world began.

Not only was Jesus in Gods purpose of Salvation before the world began, but so was those God had Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

In fact they received purpose and grace in Christ Jesus their Head, before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Thats the book of life !

 

[journeymanisnothing]

So then if you say no, why did you unjustly criticize and misrepresent me as believing that it doesnt, when in fact you dont believe that yourself. Please explain that now sir

Because I don't mean the cross is "irrisistable." You think when God offers grace, it cannot be resisted, but the truth is, most people don't want anything to do with the grace of our Lord. Some do, but most don't and the reason they don't is because the cross of our dear Savior is too humbling for them, the exact opposite of how Calvanists dismiss free will.
Understanding how vile I was and being heartfelt sorry for it is easy, when I see my sin as the abuse from sinners Christ suffered.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

It is you who said that a person's faith in Christ comes from, and by, themselves and their intellect, remember?

No, I said it comes from the life Christ lived and can be understood by our intellect. That's of course for people who have heard of Christ.

I said if that's true, then how can they get that faith if they've never heard of Him and being that their faith is from themselves?

I told you and cited how Creation testifies to all mankind that God exists, so faith comes from what God made.

I say just the opposite of your position - that salvation is a gift solely of God given to some, from which is faith given to them, and it cannot be self-generated at all by anyone.

I've told you numerous times, a Christians' faith is because of Jesus' life, his words and deeds, "generated" by himself, so that people would have faith in him.

If you're now saying that it is through some ability given by God, then it is not of themselves, is it?

Jesus rising from death is not of myself or yourself.

And you're tending to agree with my position and moving away from yours. You can't have it both ways.

I don't agree with your interpretation of scripture.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Because they were written into the book from the foundation of the world, is WHY they are faithful. It is only by Christ, not of ourselves.


[1Pe 1:2 KJV]
2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

[Rom 1:4-5 KJV]
4 And declared [to be] the Son of God with power, according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead:
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

The book was there from the foundation of the world, not the names to be written therein.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

If anyone has a true and abiding faith in Christ as Saviour, they have been made alive spiritually.
God did not give spiritual gifts equally or of the same type, to everyone.

Actually I have been looking at verse about spiritually dead and it does not refer to salvation but to those who sin. Even the verse you quote connects spiritually dead with those who live in sin, not those who are unsaved.

[Rom 12:5-6 KJV]
5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, [let us prophesy] according to the proportion of faith;

This is to the church, right? There are no spiritual gifts to unbelievers including a so-called gift of faith to believe in salvation. That is not the sense one gets from reading the sermons the men in the New Testament preached. Men believe because they hear the word. There is asking God to give men faith to be saved as you suggest. No one did that, not even Jesus.

Don't follow your point. They could not comprehend the light. That light is Christ.
To have no spiritual comprehension means being dead - the dead have no comprehension :
they are oblivious.

They were also blind and deaf, although the deaf see and the blind hear. Your theology has taken the metaphor "dead" and decided all the attributes of the dead apply. That is not the sense in which the unsaved are viewed as. The centurion was praised for his faith and that faith was not a gift but came from him realizing with his comprehension who Jesus was and what authority he had. It was to the centurion logical.

We are likely to go round and round on this. But you can be assured that I understand perfectly your position. I do not agree with it. I have looked at a few "spiritually dead" scriptures such as "She who is truly a widow, left all alone, has set her hope on God and continues in supplications and prayers night and day, 6but she who is self-indulgent is dead even while she lives" as we see that this "dead" has nothing to do with salvation but with living in sin. Or "even when we were dead in transgressions" refers to dead because of sins, not because of unbelievers or being unsaved. I think you apply the metaphor wrongly but I know you are not alone.

 

[rogerg]

The book was there from the foundation of the world, not the names to be written therein.

No. If certain names were not written into the book from the foundation of the world, and those are they who worship the beast and go into perdition, then logically speaking, there must also be the names of those who were written into the book from the foundation of the world and who don't go into perdition.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

 

[JLB]

No. If certain names were not written into the book from the foundation of the world, and those are they who worship the beast and go into perdition, then logically speaking, there must also be the names of those who were written into the book from the foundation of the world and who don't go into perdition.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Then a third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”
Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.
Revelation 14:9-12

 

[rogerg]

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

Those who do, are only those who were written into the book from the foundation of the world. They alone
keep the commandment of God

[Rom 1:5 KJV]
5 By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:
[Rom 16:26 KJV]
26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

 

[rogerg]

No, I said it comes from the life Christ lived and can be understood by our intellect. That's of course for people who have heard of Christ.

Well, that was my question to begin with. What happens to those who throughout time do not/can not
hear of/about Christ due to circumstances outside of their control?
Never mind, don't bother to reply, at this point we're in a loop, and I don't feel like
going through it all again. That is exactly what I was trying to avoid in my post, the one
you replied to saying something about me being boxed in.
So, at this point, I'm done.