Is believing/faith a work ?

[Randy]

Everyone whose name was not written into the book before the foundation of the world
are those who would sin against God

That's not how Jesus nor Paul preached. Wickedness was rebuked and righteousness was promoted. The gospel was sent into the world with great loss of life. Paul and others debated with unbelievers. If no one has a say that seems like a very big waste of time, life and effort. Jesus in heaven is rebuking churches with "warnings". Why if no one has a say? We are not robots. We have our own mind and will. We make choices. As in choose life.

 

[rogerg]

We are not robots. We have our own mind and will. We make choices. As in choose life.

Were that true, there would be no need for a Saviour. A Saviour saves those who
need saving, not those who don't, to include those who start out by refusing and
turning their backs on that Saviour. If He has chosen someone to salvation, then
He gives them a total and complete salvation.
Regarding the works you mentioned above, those who are saved have been called to good works
to share the gospel to others, however, only those so chosen will/can respond to it
and will come to a true faith in Christ. But that is from salvation, not to salvation.

 

[Randy]

What kind of ink you think God used ? I just dont think its a literal book. Jesus telling some that He wont blot their name out of the book of life is perhaps reassuring His True People of their Eternal Security in Him, its like Him saying Jn 10:28

28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

What makes them worthy, dressed in white ? Its Christs imputed righteousness, none else can be worthy in themselves. Christs righteousness is our white robe Rev 19:8

And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

And Christ is our righteousness by the doing of God 1 Cor 1:30

30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption

If Im worthy at all, its because I will by the grace of God be found clothed in His righteousness !

Ezekiel 9:11

I see the gospel message as Dynamic depending on choices made. You see it set in stone with no choices made.

I don't think God needs to write anything to know or remember. The recording of books and names written in heaven could be all figurative or how God chose it to be.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No. If certain names were not written into the book from the foundation of the world, and those are they who worship the beast and go into perdition, then logically speaking, there must also be the names of those who were written into the book from the foundation of the world and who don't go into perdition.

[Rev 17:8 KJV] 8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

The Greek word order is “the book of Life from the foundation of the world” which refers to the book being there, not the names therein.

[Rev 20:15 KJV] 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

No mention of names being there before the foundation of the world.

What is mentioned in a few places is names being blotted out of the book of life. So if you’d take all
of scripture with your position of names there before birth, you must realize that those names can be blotted out and therefore not chosen for salvation from the foundation of the world secure and eternal. Is that your position? Names there can be blotted out and are no longer there?

 

[rogerg]

The Greek word order is “the book of Life from the foundation of the world” which refers to the book being there, not the names therein.

Dorothy, I don't know what you're saying. Here are the Greek words for that phrase. It does not
come even close to what you've said. Think about it, if the Bible informs that certain names were not written in it,
then different names must have been written in it or the verse would be nonsensical

Book:
biblion

1. a small book, a scroll, a written document
2. a sheet on which something has been written

of life:
zōē
life

foundation:
katabolē
a throwing or laying down

world:
kosmos
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

 

[brightfame52]

The book was there from the foundation of the world, not the names to be written therein.

I cant believe you said that.

 

[rogerg]

I cant believe you said that.

Head scratcher, isn't it, brightfame52

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Dorothy, I don't know what you're saying. Here are the Greek words for that phrase. It does not
come even close to what you've said. Think about it, if the Bible informs that certain names were not written in it,
then different names must have been written in it or the verse would be nonsensical

Book:
biblion

1. a small book, a scroll, a written document
2. a sheet on which something has been written

of life:
zōē
life

foundation:
katabolē
a throwing or laying down

world:
kosmos
an apt and harmonious arrangement or constitution, order, government

Look up the verse in Greek. It says the Book of life from the foundation of the world in that order.

Now if we were to say names were written there at that time, you do accept that they, some, are later blotted out, right? They are then no longer there, right?

 

[brightfame52]

Head scratcher, isn't it, brightfame52

The lengths people will go to in their defiance of the truth.

 

[rogerg]

Look up the verse in Greek. It says the Book of life from the foundation of the world in that order.

Huh? I showed you the Greek.

Now if we were to say names were written there at that time, you do accept that they, some, are later blotted out, right? They are then no longer there, right?

those names that were not written from the foundation of the world are all blotted out.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Huh? I showed you the Greek.

No you didn’t. You showed me how a dictionary defines those individual words which I need no Greek for. The ORDER OF THE words I showed you. The preposition “from the foundation of the world” follows “the book of life” not the names written there in. It reads “the book of life from the foundation of the world,” which makes sense.

those names that were not written from the foundation of the world are all blotted out.

If they’re not written in, they can’t be blotted out. And saying later names are blotted out is silly.

 

[rogerg]

Now if we were to say names were written there at that time, you do accept that they, some, are later blotted out, right? They are then no longer there, right?

Allow me to clarify so that you understand. Other names are added (but not from the foundation of the world) to the book throughout time, AFTER the names from foundation of the world were added up until the end of time-- obviously, not all names are added at the foundation of the world. However, only those names FROM the foundation remain in the book forever.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

Allow me to clarify so that you understand. Other names are added (but not from the foundation of the world) to the book, AFTER the names from foundation of the world are added until the end of time-- obviously, not all names are added at the foundation of the world. However, only those names FROM the foundation remain in the book forever.

That is really cruel of God and there’s no statement in the Bible to this effect. They’re aren’t two classes of people, the lucky ones and the temporarily saved but really doomed from the foundation of the world ones. God is not so cruel.

 

[rogerg]

hat is really cruel of God and there’s no statement in the Bible to this effect. They’re aren’t two classes of people, the lucky ones and the temporary but really doom from the foundation of the world ones. God is not so cruel.

No statement to what "this effect"? That statement is the Bible itself.

It is NOT cruel of God given that NO ONE, no not one person, DESERVES SALVATION nor can make themselves deserve it. That He chose to save anyone is solely and completely as an underserved gift to them and demonstrates His mercy and grace.

 

[Dorothy Mae]

No statement to what "this effect"? That statement is the Bible itself.

No it isn’t.

It is NOT cruel of God given that NO ONE, no not one person, DESERVES SALVATION nor can make themselves deserve it.

Yes it is. If a father decided before any offspring were born that the second and third will receive a full education and funds to start an adult life but the first and fourth will be turned out to fend for themselves at 18, we’d say that was cruel. Your argument is NONE. of them deserve help in life so it’s OK. If you were the one whose name WASNT written in the book for no reason, you’d see the cruelty.

That He chose to save anyone is solely and completely an underserved gift to them and demonstrates His mercy and grace.

No it says directly he wants ALL saved.

 

[rogerg]

Yes it is. If a father decided before any offspring were born that the second and third will receive a full education and funds to start an adult life but the first and fourth will be turned out to fend for themselves at 18, we’d say that was cruel. Your argument is NONE. of them deserve help in life so it’s OK. If you were the one whose name WASNT written in the book for no reason, you’d see the cruelty.

God is not the spiritual Father of those whom He did not choose to salvation. You judge God by the values of men.

[Luk 8:20-21 KJV]
20 And it was told him [by certain] which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.

 

[JLB]

Those who do, are only those who were written into the book from the foundation of the world. They alone
keep the commandment of God

Those who do what?

 

[rogerg]

Those who do what?

Keep the commandment of God, which commandment, I included in my post to you.
Didn't you read those verses?

 

[JLB]

Keep the commandment of God, which commandment, I included in my post to you.
Didn't you read those verses?

I'm the one who posted Revelation 14:9-12

Plainly there is a warning for the saints to persevere; to patiently endure the hardship of the tribulation, and not yield to take the mark of the beast.

 

[rogerg]

I'm the one who posted Revelation 14:9-12

Plainly there is a warning for the saints to persevere; to patiently endure the hardship of the tribulation, and not yield to take the mark of the beast.

And? The Bible is full of warnings to the saints regarding how to live which they take to heart. However, their salvation is not dependent upon anything they may or may not do.