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Is believing/faith a work ?

rogerg said:
And? The Bible is full of warnings to the saints regarding how to live which they take to heart. However, their salvation is not dependent upon anything they may or may not do.
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So you believe if a saint gives in and takes the mark of the beast, so they can eat, and feed themselves, then they somehow won't suffer the fate of the warning given?
 
JLB said:
So you believe if a saint gives in and takes the mark of the beast, so they can eat, and feed themselves, then they somehow won't suffer the fate of the warning given?
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Those saved cannot take/will not have, the mark of the beast
 
rogerg said:
Were that true, there would be no need for a Saviour. A Saviour saves those who
need saving, not those who don't, to include those who start out by refusing and
turning their backs on that Saviour. If He has chosen someone to salvation, then
He gives them a total and complete salvation.
Regarding the works you mentioned above, those who are saved have been called to good works
to share the gospel to others, however, only those so chosen will/can respond to it
and will come to a true faith in Christ. But that is from salvation, not to salvation.
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Again we need a savior. To accept or reject that need is ours to make. Hence the many warnings.
 
rogerg said:
Those saved cannot take/will not have, the mark of the beast
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What about the warning give to ANYONE ...anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
 
Randy said:
To accept or reject that need is ours to make. Hence the many warnings.
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Definitely not! Were it our decision to make, then: 1) He couldn't be the Saviour, because
we would be and, 2) even if "1" were possible (which it isn't), then man couldn't be able to because natural (unsaved) man cannot truly comprehend things spiritual. For him to be able to do so, he would already have to
be saved.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
 
JLB said:
What about the warning give to ANYONE ...anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
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That doesn't say who will or who won't.
 
rogerg said:
That doesn't say who will or who won't.
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Right so anyone means ANYONE!

Thus the warning to the saints.


What about the warning give to ANYONE ...anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
 
JLB said:
What about the warning give to ANYONE ...anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he himself shall also drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out full strength into the cup of His indignation. He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
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Only those whose names were not written into the book of life from the foundation of the world will worship him:

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
 
rogerg said:
God is not the spiritual Father of those whom He did not choose to salvation. You judge God by the values of men.

[Luk 8:20-21 KJV]
20 And it was told him [by certain] which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
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Amen, Jesus called into question that God was the Father of some Jn 8:42,44

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

And then went on to tell them who their father really is

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Notice also He said the lust of your father the devil ye will do ! They have no choice, Jesus said they will do it ! I dont believe He desires to save these people !
 
rogerg said:
Only those whose names were not written into the book of life from the foundation of the world will worship him:

[Rev 13:8 KJV] 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
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I understand those to be the non elect, the goats, tares, vessels of wrath of mankind, who God didnt choose in Christ before the foundation of the world. I believe Christ perhaps is the Lambs book of Life.
 
rogerg said:
God is not the spiritual Father of those whom He did not choose to salvation. You judge God by the values of men.

[Luk 8:20-21 KJV]
20 And it was told him [by certain] which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee.
21 And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.
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I don’t see how that verse addresses the issue you raise. As a side note, I’m rather fond of you, Roger.

I can see how Jesus thinks those who do the will of God are his siblings. My brothers and sisters are those who follow Jesus, not the offspring of my parents. This isn’t different.
 
Dorothy Mae said:
I don’t see how that verse addresses the issue you raise. As a side note, I’m rather fond of you, Roger.
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Because in order for them to be Jesus's spiritual siblings, that means that God must be their spiritual Father. If God is their spiritual Father, then those who don't fit the criteria Jesus described, aren't God's spiritual children and not privy to the affections and rewards, and gifts given to God's spiritual children. So, God is not unfair as you claimed He would be by favoring only certain ones, instead, He is treating all of His spiritual children equally.
 
rogerg said:
Definitely not! Were it our decision to make, then: 1) He couldn't be the Saviour, because
we would be and, 2) even if "1" were possible (which it isn't), then man couldn't be able to because natural (unsaved) man cannot truly comprehend things spiritual. For him to be able to do so, he would already have to
be saved.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
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choices made
Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”

8For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, e just as God did from his. 11Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

12For the word of God is alive and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. 13Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.
 
Randy said:
choices made
Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts.”
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I don't follow your point. Those of the elect will not harden their hearts. They will
read, perceive and follow all biblical admonitions including that one - no one immediately after
becoming born-again wakes up knowing all doctrine, and admonitions until
being exposed to them in the Bible. However, they conform and follow them, realizing
the doing of them is a byproduct (or from) of salvation, not unto salvation, and that is the important part.
 
rogerg said:
Definitely not! Were it our decision to make, then: 1) He couldn't be the Saviour, because
we would be and, 2) even if "1" were possible (which it isn't), then man couldn't be able to because natural (unsaved) man cannot truly comprehend things spiritual. For him to be able to do so, he would already have to
be saved.

[1Co 2:13 KJV] 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

[1Co 2:14 KJV] 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.
Click to expand...
How do reconcile the following?

1 Corinthians 2:14

And

Acts 17:30
... having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now proclaiming to mankind that all people everywhere are to repent,
 
wondering said:
How do reconcile the following?
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wondering,
Throughout the Bible, God commands many things of people, such as that of Acts 17:30 to repent from
the trusting of anything besides Christ for salvation. However, as we are informed in 1 Cor 2:14, the natural man is completely incapable of that spiritual understanding. This is because repentance unto Christ comes from the fruit of the Spirit, given only to those born-again. Nevertheless, that command was given by God to warn and to make visible two mutually exclusive results: to those who don't repent unto Christ, eternal death, to those who do, eternal life.
 
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