IS DEMONIC POSSESSION REAL ?

[Dorothy Mae]

Praising?
No, not praising.

When YOU say YOUR fruit is good, you are praising yourself. Jesus said to judge the fruit of ANOTHER, not you.

Testifying. Witness to the truth.

Of how great you are?

Now please post Scripture to support your statements.

Ok,

Angels have bodies: Some visited Abraham and ate food. They had material bodies unlike your position.
2He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 3and said, “O Lord,b if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. 4Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree,5while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” 6

 

[GodsGrace]

NO

ONE in God's creation has a will that overrides God's Sovereign will.
Unless God gives permission to man or angel to do a thing it does not get done.
Free will in TIME is an illusion.
Note that Satan could do nothing to Job unless God gave the permission. And note the restrictions of that permission after permission had been given:

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Job 1:12.

And again:

6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Job 2:6.

So, yes, Satan is an obedient servant of the Lord of Hosts and God Most High.

MOST High.

If satan is an obedient servant, does this mean that God wants all the evil satan causes to befall man and nature?

 

[GodsGrace]

My fruit is good.
It's my knowledge of Scripture and Christ you don't like.
But truth has that effect on the ignorant.
So much so that certain people used to burn Christians at the stake for their truthful confessions.

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[jeremiah1five]

Revelation16

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

The body like a frog .

Symbolism.
I asked the actual.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You really don’t know of any visitations by angels described in the Bible? You never read the account of Sodom? Really? You’ve never read where an angel visited Daniel? Or John when he wrote Revelation? Or Mary visited by Gabriel? I mean I can post these but it would be helpful to know if I’m dealing with someone who’s never read much. I would need to start very basic. (All those visits were by beings who had bodies. They weren’t disembodied ethereal clouds of a being.)

The account of the source of fallen angels is known. The account of the source of demons is not given. Jesus cast out demons, not fallen angels.

Now do you want me to give you the scriptures for the above as you’ve never read the biblical account of these?

I recognize those accounts.
There is no account in Scripture of demons having bodies.
Demons are not angels. Demons are the attitudes of Lucifer and in man.
Before Christ attended to a person in Scripture there is evidence He had to subdue the attitudes of the mind.

15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid. Mk 5:15.

And notice this:

16 And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine. Mk 5:16.

What did they see? A halo above the man? An ethereal glow about him? Well, there was a glow about him and one look upon his countenance they could see a change in the man's (I think there were two men) face from a possible distorted, angry, maybe fearful look in his eyes to one of peace.

The definition of demons from Strong's:

Greek Word: δαίμων
Transliteration: daimōn
from daio (to distribute fortunes); a dæmon or supernatural spirit (of a bad nature)

There's no mention of a body other than where these supernatural spirits of a bad nature originated from and that is these two seriously troubled men. Before Christ ministered to someone like this He had to subdue their attitudes:

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
2 Cor. 10:4–6.

Disobedience is ALWAYS exercised with a bad attitude. THAT is the evil spirit of the mind and your 'demon.' Imaginations, thoughts, every high thing that exalts itself (NOT HIMSELF) against the knowledge of God Christ is first to deal with. Attitude.

 

[jeremiah1five]

If satan is an obedient servant, does this mean that God wants all the evil satan causes to befall man and nature?

It's an arrogant attitude to think when a Christian is undergoing some spiritual attack that Satan himself is involved. How can that be? He can be in one place at a TIME and I'm sure he's not even involved in such attack especially when man has a fallen, sinful nature that is STILL a part of the Christian. THINK. Satan could do nothing to Job without God's PERMISSION and when it came it was given with RESTRICTION.
BUT WHO was REALLY behind all the tribulation (evil?) Job experienced?
It was GOD.

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

Satan doesn't cause evil that befalls man. Man's sinful nature when expressed does all the damage that is self-afflicted on man and mankind. This is why the Ten Commandments and the other commands of God such as life for life, smite for smite, tooth for tooth were graciously given by God to control that sinful nature. Left alone they would be nephalim (tyrants and bullies) like those offspring through unequally yoked sons of God (Covenant) with the daughters of men (non-Covenant) in Genesis 6.
When man is without restriction (power corrupts absolutely) he does great extensive damage. Ever been the victim of a crime? Was the person operating within the law or outside it?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ok, well something to explore..

I assure you that your posts are chalk full of statements not seen before in Christendom.

You first. I never ever heard your statements in >30 years.

You're the one that first challenged what I said but your statements were only commentary without the Scripture to support your statements.
So, if you're going to speak on something of God come with Scripture.
It's either chapter and verse or it's chatter and worse.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Ok, well something to explore..

I assure you that your posts are chalk full of statements not seen before in Christendom.

You first. I never ever heard your statements in >30 years.

Do you actually believe that what we know of the Doctrines of Christ today were reasoned out in the first century? Not all.
God controls how much light each person and generation receives to understand His Word to His people. He controls the eye and the ear and the mind and the understanding. Paul makes that clear.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, 26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:
Rom. 16:25–26.

God reveals His Word to those that can handle it and at the appointed TIME. His TIME.
When He's good and ready.
But He doesn't reveal His Word to the disobedient, ignorant, arrogant, prideful people saved or unsaved. One must be a child of truth being taught the Word of Truth by the Spirit of Truth about the God is Truth.
Never heard THAT in thirty years?

 

[Scripture Says]

NO

ONE in God's creation has a will that overrides God's Sovereign will.
Unless God gives permission to man or angel to do a thing it does not get done.
Free will in TIME is an illusion.
Note that Satan could do nothing to Job unless God gave the permission. And note the restrictions of that permission after permission had been given:

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Job 1:12.

And again:

6 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, he is in thine hand; but save his life. Job 2:6.

So, yes, Satan is an obedient servant of the Lord of Hosts and God Most High.

MOST High.

being obedient and working within some framework God sets forth TO DO EVIL IS NOT BEING OBEDIENT. If satan was OBEDIENT he would be serving God....

 

[hawkman]

Symbolism.
I asked the actual.

Do you have any practical experiences with the demonic realm in this world ? How do I know without a doubt demons are more that "attitudes" ? I will tell you how .

One night after an encounter on a forum online with a person that left me wondering if they were a person or a demon . I was sitting in my usual spot outside in the darkness to start my prayer time . I had been there a minute of two when I heard this awful wet snarl over my shoulder . The snarl did not sound like any animal I have ever heard or human . But there was no fear on my part because in the middle of the snarl the Holy Spirit said " That is demonic ." The demon could not touch me but they were NOT happy . Remember this verse .
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

 

[Scripture Says]

Jeremiah said: Before Christ attended to a person in Scripture there is evidence He had to subdue the attitudes of the mind.

15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind

Scripture Says: Really.... he wasnt in his right mind because he was possessed, had nothing to do with his attitudes.

 

[GodsGrace]

It's an arrogant attitude to think when a Christian is undergoing some spiritual attack that Satan himself is involved. How can that be? He can be in one place at a TIME and I'm sure he's not even involved in such attack especially when man has a fallen, sinful nature that is STILL a part of the Christian. THINK. Satan could do nothing to Job without God's PERMISSION and when it came it was given with RESTRICTION.
BUT WHO was REALLY behind all the tribulation (evil?) Job experienced?
It was GOD.

You didn't really answer my question to you.
I asked if you believe that because satan is under the control of God,
does this mean that God desires all the evil in the world.

3 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause. Job 2:3.

Satan doesn't cause evil that befalls man. Man's sinful nature when expressed does all the damage that is self-afflicted on man and mankind. This is why the Ten Commandments and the other commands of God such as life for life, smite for smite, tooth for tooth were graciously given by God to control that sinful nature. Left alone they would be nephalim (tyrants and bullies) like those offspring through unequally yoked sons of God (Covenant) with the daughters of men (non-Covenant) in Genesis 6.
When man is without restriction (power corrupts absolutely) he does great extensive damage. Ever been the victim of a crime? Was the person operating within the law or outside it?

You bring up some good points, but I'd like an answer first so I know where you stand in your belief system.
Thanks.

 

[jeremiah1five]

When YOU say YOUR fruit is good, you are praising yourself. Jesus said to judge the fruit of ANOTHER, not you.

Of how great you are?

Ok,

Angels have bodies: Some visited Abraham and ate food. They had material bodies unlike your position.
2He lifted up his eyes and looked, and behold, three men were standing in front of him. When he saw them, he ran from the tent door to meet them and bowed himself to the earth 3and said, “O Lord,b if I have found favor in your sight, do not pass by your servant. 4Let a little water be brought, and wash your feet, and rest yourselves under the tree,5while I bring a morsel of bread, that you may refresh yourselves, and after that you may pass on—since you have come to your servant.” So they said, “Do as you have said.” 6

I AM a child of the KING!

And self-reflection is necessary to honest growth and understanding:

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. 3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. Rom. 12:2–3.

If sharing my place and ministry in the body of Christ is error or sin, then Paul was in error and sin to describe his place and ministry in the body of Christ by saying "I am apostle and magnify mine office," and to tell of shipwrecks, being in jail (that jail-bird), suffering beatings, and whippings, and 'in the deep,' and other such experiences in his epistles.

Even God Himself boasts by continually telling the children of Israel how with a mighty arm He delivered His people out of Egypt.
AND He IS a God of love, but notice Paul said love doesn't brag/boast and God boasts.
Figure that one out!

Angels of God manifested human shape and form (bodies), but there is nowhere in Scripture where a fallen angel takes the shape and form (body) of a human anywhere in Scripture.
You said 'demons' do.
What is a 'demon,' Dororthy Mae?

 

[Scripture Says]

Paul said love doesn't brag/boast and God boasts.
Figure that one out!

Your equating God telling the Israelites what He did to Remind them of His being God to a man who would brag and boast in a fleshly manner?... oh wait thats not what your doing, your saying love doesnt boast and God boast so he isnt love...

You say figure it out..... nothing to figure out... God isnt boasting since He and He alone created Love and only through Him can anyone Love....

 

[jeremiah1five]

being obedient and working within some framework God sets forth TO DO EVIL IS NOT BEING OBEDIENT. If satan was OBEDIENT he would be serving God....

He did and does serve God.

12 And the LORD said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. Job 1:12.

Obedience. Restriction.
Obedience.
And restriction. Go this far and no further.
And he obeyed.
This is indicative of a Sovereign God over ALL His creation.
Over angels, over attitudes, over mind, over emotions, over knowledge, over light, over darkness, over ALL.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Your equating God telling the Israelites what He did to Remind them of His being God to a man who would brag and boast in a fleshly manner?... oh wait thats not what your doing, your saying love doesnt boast and God boast so he isnt love...

You say figure it out..... nothing to figure out... God isnt boasting since He and He alone created Love and only through Him can anyone Love....

It wasn't in a fleshly manner.

God didn't create love.
God IS love. And it wasn't a creation of His.

Well, about God boasting to the children of Israel how He delivered them from Egypt is exactly that.
And He does this countless times in Scripture.
Countless.
The Law says this. The Psalms record this. The prophets speak it overshadowed by the Holy Spirit


Deut 6:12 Then beware lest thou forget the Lord, which brought thee forth out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage
Exod 20:2 I am the Lord thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Deut 5:6 I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deut 4:37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
Lev 22:33 That brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the Lord.
Deut 16:1 Observe the month of Abib, and keep the passover unto the Lord thy God: for in the month of Abib the Lord thy God brought thee forth out of Egypt by night.
Num 15:41 I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the Lord your God.
Lev 25:38 I am the Lord your God, which brought you forth out of the land of Egypt, to give you the land of Canaan, and to be your God.
Lev 19:36 Just balances, just weights, a just ephah, and a just hin, shall ye have: I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt.
Exod 13:9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that the Lord’s law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath the Lord brought thee out of Egypt.

That's a lot of deliverance.
And this is not an exhaustive list.
Let the Lord blow His own horn. There are still many more trumpets He will blow.
I'm sure the two witnesses of Revelation when they prophesy during the time of their prophecy to Israel will most likely say it many more times as well.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You didn't really answer my question to you.
I asked if you believe that because satan is under the control of God,
does this mean that God desires all the evil in the world.



You bring up some good points, but I'd like an answer first so I know where you stand in your belief system.
Thanks.

By creating a sinful man (Adam) God set in motion all the evil in the world past, present, and future. There is nothing in the universe that God did not ordain. But the universe is not eternal. Neither was Adam. Nor the angels. ONLY God is eternal. So, any creation of His could not be eternal. It was created to die and diminish into chaos. This is called the law of entropy.
Rightly dividing the Word of God will lead the true believer to the ultimate conclusion that God is Sovereign over ALL creation, whether a planet, comet, exploding star, black holes, angels, or man.

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west,
That there is none beside me.
I am the LORD, and there is none else.
7 I form the light, and create darkness:
I make peace, and create evil:
I the LORD do all these things.
Is 45:6–7.

Everything in creation is the result of God. Everything. And believing God is Sovereign over ALL things in creation fills me with such assurance as believer that all is well, that all will be alright in the end. And nobody wants all this to end more than God.

 

[jeremiah1five]

What comes out of you

Jeremiah said: Before Christ attended to a person in Scripture there is evidence He had to subdue the attitudes of the mind.

15 And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind

Scripture Says: Really.... he wasnt in his right mind because he was possessed, had nothing to do with his attitudes.

r mouth doesn't originate in your heart. It originates in your mind. This is the essence of 'repentance.' The Greek word means "to change one's mind."
Judas changed his mind. Repentance.
Peter changed his mind.
Paul changed his mind.
Even you have changed your mind countless times in your life. That is called repentance.
So, for anyone who opens their mouth it will either be grace or curse. And these demoniacs had such a foul attitude of mind that unless Christ said "SHUT UP!" they would talk over him. And they did. They understood He was the Christ, the Son of God. In time everyone knew who this Jesus was because news travels fast. The things He did and the things He said ("Never a man spoke like this.") was noised abroad. These demoniacs did not have some supernatural scoop of Jesus. They have ears. They heard. And hearing is the first mark of faith. Reading, too.
They in human fashion recognized Jesus as Israel's Messiah. And to call Him "Son of God" they may have understood Genesis 3:15 where the prophecy that the Redeemer would be both God and MAN.
These two demoniacs were from [one/two] of the twelve tribes of the House of Israel. There was a time they were common or even upstanding citizens and knew the Old Testament Scriptures concerning Israel's Messiah. Same with the Samaritan woman at the well, the Roman centurion, and every other Israelite in and outside of Israel.
It is said that the tongue is a world of fire. It is. But the tongue does not think. It's a tongue, not a brain.
Well, connected to the mind it is more easily understood for every thought of man was on evil continually.

4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) 5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; 6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
2 Cor. 10:3–6.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Do you have any practical experiences with the demonic realm in this world ? How do I know without a doubt demons are more that "attitudes" ? I will tell you how .

One night after an encounter on a forum online with a person that left me wondering if they were a person or a demon . I was sitting in my usual spot outside in the darkness to start my prayer time . I had been there a minute of two when I heard this awful wet snarl over my shoulder . The snarl did not sound like any animal I have ever heard or human . But there was no fear on my part because in the middle of the snarl the Holy Spirit said " That is demonic ." The demon could not touch me but they were NOT happy . Remember this verse .
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.

You have preconceived ideas about demons and evil spirits.
If Scripture says Jesus knew what was in man, why couldn't you.
He addressed the person not a fallen angel or some other creation on the planet Scripture doesn't mention. Everything having to do with man comes from man.

 

[hawkman]

You have preconceived ideas about demons and evil spirits.
If Scripture says Jesus knew what was in man, why couldn't you.
He addressed the person not a fallen angel or some other creation on the planet Scripture doesn't mention. Everything having to do with man comes from man.

As I thought you have no practical experience with the demonic realm . There are many of us in this thread that do have practical experience with the demonic realm . Hidden In Him and Dorothy Mae are two of them .
Come back when you have practical experience and we will talk .