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Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

grumix8

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We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d's people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Romans 7:19 For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

Psalm 110:2 "Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew."



From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.

Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don't talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d's plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.

People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.

James 2:12 "So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty."

2 Corinthians 3:17 "Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty."


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d's people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
God's specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Proverbs 3:5-6"Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight."
 

Fastfredy0

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God's general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn't control everything
Premise 1: God creates all things
Premise 2: God controls all circumstances (either actively or passively)
Premise 2: God knows all things and therefore knows what all created things will do in any circumstance.
Conclusion: God is in complete control.

God gets everything he wants because:
  1. He can't create something He doesn't know what it will do (all knowing) and
  2. God wouldn't create something contrary to his will as that would contradict His being all-wise.
Aside: The thread doesn't define "free will", so people will be answering based on their varying, internal concepts of what "free will" means to them.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Premise 1: God creates all things
Premise 2: God controls all circumstances (either actively or passively)
Premise 2: God knows all things and therefore knows what all created things will do in any circumstance.
Conclusion: God is in complete control.

God gets everything he wants because:
  1. He can't create something He doesn't know what it will do (all knowing) and
  2. God wouldn't create something contrary to his will as that would contradict His being all-wise.
Aside: The thread doesn't define "free will", so people will be answering based on their varying, internal concepts of what "free will" means to them.
My free will means I can do everything that God wants me to do.
 

wondering

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My free will means I can do everything that God wants me to do.
Your free will also makes you do things God does not want you to do.

And if you don't believe you have free will and God has predestined every move you make...then you could stop thinking about this because God will be pulling your Puppet strings and making you do what He wants you to do
 

grumix8

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1 Corinthians 10:12-14


So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.
1. Christians are threatened and even overtaken by sins brought about through temptations.

2. God never allows us to be tempted beyond what we can bear, but rather provides an escape so that we don’t give in and fall into the sin action that the temptation prompts in us.

3. Yet Christians sin, not only are they “overtaken” in the above quote, but also in 1 John 1:8 there’s the clear report that Christians sin. Most people agree Christians are sinners too.

Conclusion: Every time a Christian sins, the Bible says God provided a way to “escape” falling into that sin. Christians have the freewill to either use that escape route or to reject the God given means to avoid yielding to temptation.

Christians have proper freewill, meaning the ability to do otherwise in any given situation. Freewill isn’t simply “a belief” but an experience, something we can confirm with our own facilities as easily as we confirm light, heat, sound and sights.

Posters who use their counter causal freedom to deny counter causal freedom are deeply confused.
 

wondering

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1 Corinthians 10:12-14


So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall! No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it. Therefore, my dear friends, flee from idolatry.
1. Christians are threatened and even overtaken by sins brought about through temptations.

2. God never allows us to be tempted beyond what we can bear, but rather provides an escape so that we don’t give in and fall into the sin action that the temptation prompts in us.

3. Yet Christians sin, not only are they “overtaken” in the above quote, but also in 1 John 1:8 there’s the clear report that Christians sin. Most people agree Christians are sinners too.

Conclusion: Every time a Christian sins, the Bible says God provided a way to “escape” falling into that sin. Christians have the freewill to either use that escape route or to reject the God given means to avoid yielding to temptation.

Christians have proper freewill, meaning the ability to do otherwise in any given situation. Freewill isn’t simply “a belief” but an experience, something we can confirm with our own facilities as easily as we confirm light, heat, sound and sights.

Posters who use their counter causal freedom to deny counter causal freedom are deeply confused.
:clap

Great point!
Why would God give us a way of escape IF it was HE that made us sin to begin with???

I have a thread going on that states that if determinism is true, then God is the biggest sinner of all since He causes all sin.
 

wondering

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Premise 1: God creates all things
Premise 2: God controls all circumstances (either actively or passively)
Premise 2: God knows all things and therefore knows what all created things will do in any circumstance.
Conclusion: God is in complete control.

God gets everything he wants because:
  1. He can't create something He doesn't know what it will do (all knowing) and
  2. God wouldn't create something contrary to his will as that would contradict His being all-wise.
Aside: The thread doesn't define "free will", so people will be answering based on their varying, internal concepts of what "free will" means to them.
Again Fred....
Everyone here knows what free will means.
As you know by now,,,calvinism has changed the meaning of free will,
so calvinists are very confused about what it means.

The N.T. must be very confusing to calvinists since determinism is NOT found there.

grumix8 makes an excellent point about God giving us a way out....
why would he do that if it is HE that brought about the situation anyway?

I've asked you and others this question with no answer to date.
You probably have me on ignore and I can't blame you...
the N.T. must be very confusing to a calvinist at some point or other in their life.
 

grumix8

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Certainly it is true that we live in flawed sinful world. Satan tells Jesus in Luke 4:6 "the world is mine and I give it to whomever I wish". So then our sinful nature and the flawed world are certainly a "problem". But God has influence both on the heart of man and in the world holding back the tide of evil. So despotism is of the evil one but a "checks and balances" system where government is designed under the assumption that "people even in government , are prone to having bad ideas and need checks and balances" - is better then just ruling via a handful of despots. Its like placing some band aids and patches on a failing system rather than just letting it all fall apart.
 

Fastfredy0

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Posters who use their counter causal freedom to deny counter causal freedom are deeply confused.
An ad hominem, not worthy of a reply.

freewill, meaning the ability to do otherwise in any given situation.
Free Will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. It determines its own volitions; so as not to be dependent, in its determinations, on any cause without itself, nor determined by anything prior to its own acts. Indifference and therefore amorality belongs to Liberty in their notion of it, or that the mind, previous to the act of volition.

Well, at least your definition fits empirical outcomes (effects). But you give no cause of the effect. One could do "A" or "B" in the same circumstance. The cause of INDIFFERENCE. This violated the Law of Causality - for every effect there is a cause.
 

wondering

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An ad hominem, not worthy of a reply.


Free Will is the ability to make choices without any prior prejudice, inclination, or disposition. For the will to be free it must act from a posture of neutrality, with absolutely no bias. It determines its own volitions; so as not to be dependent, in its determinations, on any cause without itself, nor determined by anything prior to its own acts. Indifference and therefore amorality belongs to Liberty in their notion of it, or that the mind, previous to the act of volition.

Well, at least your definition fits empirical outcomes (effects). But you give no cause of the effect. One could do "A" or "B" in the same circumstance. The cause of INDIFFERENCE. This violated the Law of Causality - for every effect there is a cause.
Why don't you just stop with that dumb explanation of free will?

There is no indifference or amorality in making a moral choice.
If the person is considering the pros and cons of a choice, it means he is NOT indifferent or amoral.

Who gave this explanation of free will?
Was it, by any chance, a calvinst?
Or maybe GotQuestions? A calvinist site.

Why not ask anyone on this forum what free will is?
You might just find out....maybe not.
I tried for pages to no avail.
This is because calvinists have redefined a simple idea to suit their theology.

We don't bring our theology to the New Testament...
The New Testament GIVES to US the theology.
Determinism is NOT in the N.T.
 

Fastfredy0

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So then our sinful nature and the flawed world are certainly a "problem".
freewill, meaning the ability to do otherwise in any given situation.
On one had we have a sinful nature, on the other we have the contradictory definition of FREE WILL, where we can do "A" or "B" in the same situation. This is a contradiction. You are FREE or NOT FREE, you can't be both. To be free means to be uninfluenced by your definition.


But God has influence both on the heart of man and in the world holding back the tide of evil.

freewill, meaning the ability to do otherwise in any given situation.
On one had we have a God's influence, on the other we have the contradictory definition of FREE WILL, where we can do "A" or "B" in the same situation. This is a contradiction. You are FREE or NOT FREE, you can't be both. To be free means to be uninfluenced by your definition.

Law of Causality ... every EFFECT has a CAUSE
 

wondering

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On one had we have a sinful nature, on the other we have the contradictory definition of FREE WILL, where we can do "A" or "B" in the same situation. This is a contradiction. You are FREE or NOT FREE, you can't be both. To be free means to be uninfluenced by your definition.





On one had we have a God's influence, on the other we have the contradictory definition of FREE WILL, where we can do "A" or "B" in the same situation. This is a contradiction. You are FREE or NOT FREE, you can't be both. To be free means to be uninfluenced by your definition.

Law of Causality ... every EFFECT has a CAUSE
Every effect has a cause.....
The decision you make of your own free will has a cause.
 

Fastfredy0

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I meant something else wait until i'm finish.
By your definition of FREE WILL you may not finish. You may do "A" or "B" in the same situation.

I wonder if you will finish? You may not finish today as you chose "B", but you may chose "A" tomorrow and finish. There is no cause to your effect in your definition of FREE WILL; FREE WILL is governed by INDIFFERENCE and therefore is AMORAL.

I will wait for your rely... or maybe I won't. How do I decide?.... oh, I guess I can't as you could just as easily decide "A" or "B". AH, to be FREE, it wonderful.
 

grumix8

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No it’s not that I call it unjust it’s that God’s judgement without free will would contradict the very definition of the word just. If man is incapable of meeting God’s expectations then His judgement is not impartial or fair. God would be showing partiality towards some but not towards others which would by definition make His judgement unjust. It’s not a matter of opinion of what is just and what isn’t, it’s a matter of is God showing partiality towards some and not towards others? If there is no free will then God is showing partiality, that would not be an opinion but a fact. Therefore if God is showing partiality then His judgement defies the definition of the word just.
 

grumix8

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[Genesis 50:20 NKJV] 20 "But as for you, you meant evil against me; [but] God meant it for good, in order to bring it about as [it is] this day, to save many people alive.

[Isaiah 45:7 KJV] 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these [things].
 

Fastfredy0

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No it’s not that I call it unjust it’s that God’s judgement without free will would contradict the very definition of the word just.
God determines what is just and unjust, not you. Everyone get justice, not everyone gets mercy.


If man is incapable of meeting God’s expectations then His judgement is not impartial or fair.
God is interested in His glory and pleasure. God ensures that God meets His own expectations as their is no higher being to be glorified .... man's function is to glorify God.


God would be showing partiality towards some but not towards others which would by definition make His judgement unjust.
You see impartially incorrectly. You see it from man's point of view. There is NOTHING in man that makes him worthy of God's favor. There is none the is good, no not one.
Two billion people have never heard of Christ and are doomed to hell. By your definition of God and partially, God is partial and therefore unjust per the empirical evidence.


Therefore if God is showing partiality then His judgement defies the definition of the word just.
The way you define partiality, this is true. Since 2 billion are not given a chance to be saved God is partial and unjust by your definitions.
 
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