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Is freewill biblical or something the modern world invented ?

Fastfredy0

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the ability to act at one's own discretion
What/who determines ONES OWN DISCRETION ?

Free Will is the power of acting freely and without the constraint of necessity or fate
"Acting freely" of WHAT!
"Without constraint or necessity" of WHAT? Of anything and everything? Of your education? Of your mom's influence; free from logic,rationality, astrology? WHAT!

Free Will means your choice is determined by WHAT and/or free of WHAT.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT!

example of what ...libertarian free will defines WHAT as "determination free from everything and anything"...given the same circumstances you could just as easily choose A or B. Is this wat you mean?

maybe you can Google it to find something
 

Edward

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What/who determines ONES OWN DISCRETION ?


"Acting freely" of WHAT!
"Without constraint or necessity" of WHAT? Of anything and everything? Of your education? Of your mom's influence; free from logic,rationality, astrology? WHAT!

Free Will means your choice is determined by WHAT and/or free of WHAT.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT!

example of what ...libertarian free will defines WHAT as "determination free from everything and anything"...given the same circumstances you could just as easily choose A or B. Is this wat you mean?

maybe you can Google it to find something

I'll do both. First I'll answer you and then google it to see what I missed if anything.

Free will. Free of constraints. Meaning don't you tell me what to do, I'll do what I decide to do. So to us Christians I'd think that we excercise our free will and make our own decisions...but this is in itself against God and without God. We just don't involve God and make up our minds ourselves. And God wants to be involved. He wants us to, by our own free will, turn to Him and follow His guidance and obey because He knows that we get ourselves into trouble when we try to go alone.

Ok, Google.

Free Will
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded. Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.../

Makes sense to me.
 

Fastfredy0

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Free will. Free of constraints. Meaning don't you tell me what to do, I'll do what I decide to do. So to us Christians I'd think that we excercise our free will and make our own decisions...but this is in itself against God and without God. We just don't involve God and make up our minds ourselves. And God wants to be involved. He wants us to, by our own free will, turn to Him and follow His guidance and obey because He knows that we get ourselves into trouble when we try to go alone.

Ok, Google.

Free Will
Free will is the ability to choose between different possible courses of action unimpeded. Free will is closely linked to the concepts of moral responsibility, praise, guilt, sin, and other judgements which apply only to actions that are freely chosen.../
Thanks for your answer. :biggrin2
 

grumix8

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See G-d is working talking about freewill is A very complex issue but we have some groundbreaking material and it's good. I was writting this piece of literature for 4 or 5 days.
 

Fastfredy0

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I have a few questions to test your definition of FREE WILL. I do give you a 'high five' for actually giving a definition of FREE WILL. Others I have asked have either declined and gave definitions with no substance.
Free of constraints.
Given:
  1. Given there are 2 billion people who have never heard of Christ per google
  2. Given faith cometh by hearing (Romans 10:17)
Question: How it this circumstance not a CONSTRAINT?

Meaning don't you tell me what to do, I'll do what I decide to do. So to us Christians I'd think that we excercise our free will and make our own decisions...but this is in itself against God and without God.
So, Christian decisions are made "without God" using our free will.
Question: So the indwelling of the Spirit does not affect us?
Question: Re: Romans 5:5b for God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us. So Christians decisions are unaffected due to our FREE WILL?
Question: Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;
So our decisions as Christians are unaffected by the fruits the Spirit has given us?

You mention that our will are not constrained due to FREE WILL...
Question: Does anything influence our decisions from outside ourselves (God, parents, Satan, ..)?
Question: What is the source of our FREE WILL? Did it come from our parent? Is everyone's soul/free will eternal as the Mormon's believe and God clothes it with a temporary body?

Thanks
 

wondering

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I have a few questions to test your definition of FREE WILL. I do give you a 'high five' for actually giving a definition of FREE WILL. Others I have asked have either declined and gave definitions with no substance.

Given:
  1. Given there are 2 billion people who have never heard of Christ per google
  2. Given faith cometh by hearing (Romans 10:17)
Question: How it this circumstance not a CONSTRAINT?


So, Christian decisions are made "without God" using our free will.
Question: So the indwelling of the Spirit does not affect us?
Question: Re: Romans 5:5b for God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us. So Christians decisions are unaffected due to our FREE WILL?
Question: Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;
So our decisions as Christians are unaffected by the fruits the Spirit has given us?

You mention that our will are not constrained due to FREE WILL...
Question: Does anything influence our decisions from outside ourselves (God, parents, Satan, ..)?
Question: What is the source of our FREE WILL? Did it come from our parent? Is everyone's soul/free will eternal as the Mormon's believe and God clothes it with a temporary body?

Thanks
Since your post is not truthful, I hope Edward stops posting to you until you admit that YOUR definition of free will is calvinistic and that you understand calvinist beliefs cannot be taught on this forum.
 

wondering

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I have a few questions to test your definition of FREE WILL. I do give you a 'high five' for actually giving a definition of FREE WILL. Others I have asked have either declined and gave definitions with no substance.

Given:
  1. Given there are 2 billion people who have never heard of Christ per google
  2. Given faith cometh by hearing (Romans 10:17)
Question: How it this circumstance not a CONSTRAINT?


So, Christian decisions are made "without God" using our free will.
Question: So the indwelling of the Spirit does not affect us?
Question: Re: Romans 5:5b for God’s love has been poured out in our hearts through the Holy Spirit Who has been given to us. So Christians decisions are unaffected due to our FREE WILL?
Question: Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control;
So our decisions as Christians are unaffected by the fruits the Spirit has given us?

You mention that our will are not constrained due to FREE WILL...
Question: Does anything influence our decisions from outside ourselves (God, parents, Satan, ..)?
Question: What is the source of our FREE WILL? Did it come from our parent? Is everyone's soul/free will eternal as the Mormon's believe and God clothes it with a temporary body?

Thanks
PS
The above have been answered by me more than once.

If you still don't understand the Traditional Christian meaning of free will, what's the use to keep trying?

Also, you should not tell Traditional Christians what they believe. You should, instead, pay heed to their replies.
 

wondering

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What/who determines ONES OWN DISCRETION ?


"Acting freely" of WHAT!
"Without constraint or necessity" of WHAT? Of anything and everything? Of your education? Of your mom's influence; free from logic,rationality, astrology? WHAT!

Free Will means your choice is determined by WHAT and/or free of WHAT.
WHAT, WHAT, WHAT!

example of what ...libertarian free will defines WHAT as "determination free from everything and anything"...given the same circumstances you could just as easily choose A or B. Is this wat you mean?

maybe you can Google it to find something
Free from God's pre-determing what HE wants you to choose.

Thus,,,it is called free will.
Free from force and coercion.

Still don't understand?
 

jasonc

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im sure the way I was ,I would have freely chosen not to even know of God had He not interrupted the plans of Satan .
 

Edward

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Since your post is not truthful, I hope Edward stops posting to you until you admit that YOUR definition of free will is calvinistic and that you understand calvinist beliefs cannot be taught on this forum.

He talks like a lawyer so it's a bit hard to converse with him because he goes off on tangents which deny the truth.
 

wondering

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He talks like a lawyer so it's a bit hard to converse with him because he goes off on tangents which deny the truth.
Truthfulness is important in having a conversation.

Thing is, it would be nice if at least the member conversing with would say that he understands our definition of free will but does not agree with it, that would be ok. But to go on and on about how no one here explains it is dishonest and makes conversation a waste of time. I tried to no avail,,,and, was told I never explained it. So what's the use of continuing?

Everyone knows what free will is except calvinists. Having distorted the entire concept of the NT, they must also invent their own definitions of words.

At least you got thanked for your answer...
A step in the right direction!
 

Fastfredy0

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Given:
  1. Given: there are 2 billion people who have never heard of Christ per google
  2. Given: "So faith comes from hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the [preaching of the] message concerning Christ." (Romans 10:17) AMP
Conclusion: The ability of man is to choose Christ for 2 billion people has been rendered impossible. God, being all powerful and not willing that any should perish has not afforded these people any possibility of salvation. Agape love is a volition to favor. Two billion people are not favored (loved by God) to the degree that they may become sons of God.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Given:
  1. Given: there are 2 billion people who have never heard of Christ per google
  2. Given: "So faith comes from hearing [what is told], and what is heard comes by the [preaching of the] message concerning Christ." (Romans 10:17) AMP
Conclusion: The ability of man is to choose Christ for 2 billion people has been rendered impossible. God, being all powerful and not willing that any should perish has not afforded these people any possibility of salvation. Agape love is a volition to favor. Two billion people are not favored (loved by God) to the degree that they may become sons of God.
That's an assumption based on how you interpret the Bible.
I'm not saying that my assumptions are better than yours, but I don't read what you say in Scripture.
You assume your understanding is correct.
 

wondering

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That's an assumption based on how you interpret the Bible.
I'm not saying that my assumptions are better than yours, but I don't read what you say in Scripture.
You assume your understanding is correct.
Your assumptions are correct.
Both views cannot be correct because there is too much distance between them.

So how do we know the truth?
Correct hermeneutics OR if that is not agreeable,,,go back to find what the early church fathers believed. IOW, those that came immediately after the Apostles.
 

Fastfredy0

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You assume your understanding is correct.
Don't we all?
(at least to the extent of the confidence we have in the foundation of our understandings and means to come to said understanding)

That's an assumption based on how you interpret the Bible.
What is the assumption? Be specific
  1. That 2 billion people have not heard of Christ? .... or
  2. ... that faith leads to salvation? or
  3. ... that salvific faith includes believing Christ died and rose again? ... or
  4. ... God does not love (favor) those He gives no opportunity to believe salvificly? ... or
  5. ...God not willing that any should perish ??
I grant #5 is true, but needing of further explanation in lieu of 2 billion people not being given a choice, said choice being essential to arminian / pelagian definition of 'free will'
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Your assumptions are correct.
Both views cannot be correct because there is too much distance between them.

So how do we know the truth?
Correct hermeneutics OR if that is not agreeable,,,go back to find what the early church fathers believed. IOW, those that came immediately after the Apostles.
That's an opinion that you assume to be true.
 

Rollo Tamasi

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Don't we all?
(at least to the extent of the confidence we have in the foundation of our understandings and means to come to said understanding)


What is the assumption? Be specific
  1. That 2 billion people have not heard of Christ? .... or
  2. ... that faith leads to salvation? or
  3. ... that salvific faith includes believing Christ died and rose again? ... or
  4. ... God does not love (favor) those He gives no opportunity to believe salvificly? ... or
  5. ...God not willing that any should perish ??
I grant #5 is true, but needing of further explanation in lieu of 2 billion people not being given a choice, said choice being essential to arminian / pelagian definition of 'free will'
1. assumption
2. what kind of faith?
3. SaLVIFIC? nOT IN MY VOLCABULARY.
4. Salvifically speaking, that is neither here nor there.....
5. Absolute truth. But how do you use that to make sense to everyone?
6. Armenian/pelagian; to be or not to be.....
 

Blade

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Freewill...hmm we should always keep this simple. So should we not take into account the fall and where we are? Well Christ told them one time you being evil know how to give good gifts or you are of your father the devil. Its like looking at a person in prison saying "hey you have free will! Awesome huh!" haha.

Freewill..even with Christ we are stuck in this fallen world where Satan is the god of. There are rules/laws that can not be broken. You do notice how you get older and pain sickness on and on. You notice fear worry doubt hate.. so many things that came because of the fall that are not from God. Its like dude your classes are so muddy and dirty how can you even see through them? <---that's what were trying to do here if you ask me.

Freewill.. Christ came died rose we also with Him and we don't fully understand what that entails. "I know its a sin we are born in. I don't want to be here forever cause it feels like a chain wrapped around my neck" A song that was playing as I was typing this.. perfect timing..

Freewill? I look around I see all this darkness then the other way I see all this light. I'm going to the light and stay there.

In truth? I fight every day NOT to do what I want but to be at His feet and only say "your will be done". And He is always asking "what do you want for all this was made for you" HAHA if I learned one thing here its.. He knows best.
 
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