Is God omniscient?

[jmt356]

I think the question that God poses to Satan can be viewed as rhetorical or as prompting Satan to give an account, but I am still searching for a satisfactory answer as to why an all-knowing God would send two angels to ascertain the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

To go back to Sodom and Gomorrah, I disagree with the explanation that the man who visited Abraham was not God. Genesis 18 very clearly states that He was God in multiple places (Gen 18:1, 3, 13, 14, 17, 19, 20, 22, 26, 27, 30, 31, 32, 33). We should therefore conclude that God visited Sodom and Gomorrah and that He sent his two angels to ascertain the extent of the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Assuming that it was in fact God that visited Abraham, what explanation can we put forward to explain why God would state:

Gen 18:20 "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous
Gen 18:21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Assuming God is omniscient, wouldn't He have already known?

 

[for_his_glory]

I think the question that God poses to Satan can be viewed as rhetorical or as prompting Satan to give an account, but I am still searching for a satisfactory answer as to why an all-knowing God would send two angels to ascertain the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah.

I agree that it was probably rhetorical as asking Satan to give an account.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

We know from reading scripture that God is omni-present and nothing is hidden from Him. If we look at this scripture literally we would be limiting God's knowledge of everything that happens here on earth. The language is figurative like that of the tower of Babel where it says God came down and confused the language. The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah means their sin was so great that God needed to destroy these two cities. The two angels were sent by God to warn Lot and his family to flee before God destroyed these two cities. Lot was stubborn and wouldn't leave, but the angels laid hands on Lot, his wife and daughters and brought them forth out of the city.

 

[Fastfredy0]

God knows by his own essence; that is, he sees the nature of things in the ideas of his own mind, and the events of things in the decrees of his own will; he knows them not by viewing the things, but by viewing himself; his own essence is the mirror and book, wherein he beholds all things that he doth ordain, dispose and execute; and so he knows all things in their first and original cause; which is no other than his own essence willing, and his own essence executing what he wills; he knows them in his power, as the physical principle; in his will, as the moral principle of things, as some speak. He borrows not the knowledge of creatures from the creatures, nor depends upon them for means of understanding, as we poor men do, who are beholden to the objects abroad to assist us with images of things, and to our senses to convey them into our minds; God would then acquire a perfection from those things which are below himself, and an excellency from those things which are vile; his knowledge would not precede the being of the creatures, but the creatures would be before the act of his knowledge. If he understood by images drawn from the creatures, as we do, there would be something in God which is not God, viz. The images of things drawn from outward objects: God would then depend upon creatures for that which is more noble than a bare being; for to be understanding, is more excellent than barely to be. Besides, if God's knowledge of his creatures were derived from the creatures by the impression of anything upon him, as there is upon us, he could not know from eternity, because from eternity there was no actual existence of anything but himself; and therefore there could not be any images shot out from anything, because there was not anything in being but God; as there is no principle of being to anything but by his essence, so there is no principle of the knowledge of anything by himself but his essence. Stephen Charnock

Arminian Viewpoint
Arminians who are Freewill Theists, are not willing to concede that God knows all things, at least not in the traditional sense. In some respects the future is knowable, in others it is not. God knows a great deal about what will happen. He knows everything that will ever happen as the direct result of factors that already exist. He knows infallibly the content of his own future actions, to the extent that they are not related to human choices. All that God does not know is the content of future free decisions, and this is because decisions are not there to know until they occur."

This would quite naturally lead to the notion of "divine learning." Namely, God must learn as the future unfolds.

John Sanders's argues that the nature of the relationship necessitates risks and therefore God's providence is a risk of a sort. He states that God is "amazingly creative" and enters into a risk relationship with human beings. "In the God-human relationship God sometimes decides alone what will happen; at other times God modifies his plans in order to accommodate the choices, actions and desires of his creatures." God, in effect, reacts to our decisions and actions. God sovereignly decides not to control each and every event, and some things go contrary to what God intends and may not turn out completely as God desires. Hence, God takes risks in creating this sort of world."

For the Arminians, the fundamental belief in man's freedom must be retained. Omniscience is denied. Most Arminians cannot accept the balance maintained in Scripture, namely, God knows all things and is in control of everything while man is justly responsible for all his actions. They maintain that it must be 'reasonable' and rational. Sanders argues that it must be reasonable at all costs. Mark Hezner

 

[jmt356]

I agree that it was probably rhetorical as asking Satan to give an account.

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.

We know from reading scripture that God is omni-present and nothing is hidden from Him. If we look at this scripture literally we would be limiting God's knowledge of everything that happens here on earth. The language is figurative like that of the tower of Babel where it says God came down and confused the language. The cry of Sodom and Gomorrah means their sin was so great that God needed to destroy these two cities. The two angels were sent by God to warn Lot and his family to flee before God destroyed these two cities. Lot was stubborn and wouldn't leave, but the angels laid hands on Lot, his wife and daughters and brought them forth out of the city.

1 John 3:20 states God “knows everything.” Proverbs 15:3 states, “the eyes of the Lord are in every place.” Colossians 2:3 states, “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” are hidden in Christ. Hebrews 4:13 states, “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”

Then we come to Genesis 18:21, where God states that He will go down and “see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.”

I am not satisfied to state that when there is an apparent contradiction between two verses in the Bible, that one of them is not meant to be taken literally. It will not sit well with seekers, skeptics, agnostics, atheists and followers of other faiths. They will state that it is a cop-out and a way for Christians to avoid admitting that their holy book contradicts itself.

There should be a better explanation. The best explanation I can come up with is that God’s portentous words (“Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?”) seem to signify that He had in mind the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah before his angels turned away and headed toward Sodom. If He had not already willed the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and only intended to send His angels down for an investigation, He would not have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what God was planning to do. If, on the other hand, God already made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, He may have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what was about to happen, particularly because Abraham’s nephew Lot lived in Sodom, one of the cities God was going to destroy

 

[for_his_glory]

1 John 3:20 states God “knows everything.” Proverbs 15:3 states, “the eyes of the Lord are in every place.” Colossians 2:3 states, “all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” are hidden in Christ. Hebrews 4:13 states, “Nothing in all creation is hidden from God's sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.”

Then we come to Genesis 18:21, where God states that He will go down and “see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.”

I am not satisfied to state that when there is an apparent contradiction between two verses in the Bible, that one of them is not meant to be taken literally. It will not sit well with seekers, skeptics, agnostics, atheists and followers of other faiths. They will state that it is a cop-out and a way for Christians to avoid admitting that their holy book contradicts itself.

There should be a better explanation. The best explanation I can come up with is that God’s portentous words (“Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?”) seem to signify that He had in mind the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah before his angels turned away and headed toward Sodom. If He had not already willed the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and only intended to send His angels down for an investigation, He would not have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what God was planning to do. If, on the other hand, God already made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, He may have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what was about to happen, particularly because Abraham’s nephew Lot lived in Sodom, one of the cities God was going to destroy

Of course God already knew how bad the sin was there and already planned to destroy those two cities. God sent the two angels to warn Lot to leave the city for God was about to destroy all of it. God did not hide this from Abraham since we read how he pleaded with that angel of God.

Genesis 18 is about God testing Abrahams faith as God was about to establish His covenant with Abraham making him a great nation, vs. 1-19. Now look at vs.20 as God already knew Sodom and Gomorrah's sin was very grievous and that he already planned to destroy these two cities.

Vs. 21 seems to contradict the other scriptures that state God knows all as nothing is hidden from Him, but is not contradicting, but a figure of speech just like the metaphor used in Genesis 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

In either case God had no need to literally come down to see the city and the tower or how very grievous Sodom ad Gomorrah had become as He already knew and had Hisit all planned out what He was going to do. The two angels that went to Sodom came to warn Lot as the other angel of God stayed with Abraham as he pleaded for Sodom and Gomorrah, but yet other than Lot there was no one there that were righteous. Abraham could have pleaded until the cows came home, but God had already planned what He was going to do as again, nothing is hidden from Him that He does not know about.

 

[jmt356]

Of course God already knew how bad the sin was there and already planned to destroy those two cities. God sent the two angels to warn Lot to leave the city for God was about to destroy all of it. God did not hide this from Abraham since we read how he pleaded with that angel of God.

Genesis 18 is about God testing Abrahams faith as God was about to establish His covenant with Abraham making him a great nation, vs. 1-19. Now look at vs.20 as God already knew Sodom and Gomorrah's sin was very grievous and that he already planned to destroy these two cities.

Vs. 21 seems to contradict the other scriptures that state God knows all as nothing is hidden from Him, but is not contradicting, but a figure of speech just like the metaphor used in Genesis 11:5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

In either case God had no need to literally come down to see the city and the tower or how very grievous Sodom ad Gomorrah had become as He already knew and had Hisit all planned out what He was going to do. The two angels that went to Sodom came to warn Lot as the other angel of God stayed with Abraham as he pleaded for Sodom and Gomorrah, but yet other than Lot there was no one there that were righteous. Abraham could have pleaded until the cows came home, but God had already planned what He was going to do as again, nothing is hidden from Him that He does not know about.

It seems your view is compatible with my interpretation / explanation, which I posted above and am copying again here:

... God’s portentous words (“Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?”) seem to signify that He had in mind the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah before his angels turned away and headed toward Sodom. If He had not already willed the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and only intended to send His angels down for an investigation, He would not have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what God was planning to do. If, on the other hand, God already made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, He may have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what was about to happen, particularly because Abraham’s nephew Lot lived in Sodom, one of the cities God was going to destroy

 

[humble soul]

That's a big word. I used to know what that word meant but I can't remember. Something about "present everywhere" ?
I sometimes feel God is absent in myself or another person. An encounter can feel like Satan is winning. That in fact Satan can be omniscient.
Are both omniscient?

 

[jmt356]

"Omniscient" means all-knowing. I do not believe Satan is omniscient. Nothing I am aware of in the Bible suggests he is omniscient. If Satan were omniscient, he would have known that the crucifixion of Christ would have been the path for all to be saved. He would have tried to stop it. Instead, Satan was used by God to facilitate the crucifixion. We read in Luke 22:3-6 that "Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot, one of the Twelve. 4 And Judas went to the chief priests and the officers of the temple guard and discussed with them how he might betray Jesus. 5 They were delighted and agreed to give him money. 6 He consented, and watched for an opportunity to hand Jesus over to them when no crowd was present."

 

[humble soul]

Omniscient" means all-knowing. I do not believe Satan is omniscient.

Oh ok. All knowing. That's a tough question.
You mean he knows how bad I am? How narcissistic I can be? No need for me to confess to Him then. Or he wants ME to know exactly how evil I am? In gruesome detail?
I think Satan reads me well though. He sets the perfect trap for me quite often.

 

[for_his_glory]

It seems your view is compatible with my interpretation / explanation, which I posted above and am copying again here:

... God’s portentous words (“Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about to do?”) seem to signify that He had in mind the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah before his angels turned away and headed toward Sodom. If He had not already willed the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah and only intended to send His angels down for an investigation, He would not have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what God was planning to do. If, on the other hand, God already made up his mind to destroy Sodom and Gomorrah, He may have felt it necessary to spare Abraham of the knowledge of what was about to happen, particularly because Abraham’s nephew Lot lived in Sodom, one of the cities God was going to destroy

Gen 18:17 And the LORD said, Shall I hide from Abraham that thing which I do; Here we see God pondering if He should. In Genesis 18:22-33 we see that God did tell Abraham as he started pleading with God.

 

[GodsGrace]

jmt356

What does God's omniscience have to do with
God appearing or not appearing here on earth?