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Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

Osgiliath said:
OK.


  • Question: Do I believe Jesus when He says: John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a MURDERER FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."?


    Answer: Yes, I do.



  • Question: Do I believe John when He says: 1 John 3:8 "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil SINNETH FROM THE BEGINNING."?


    Answer: Yes, I do.



  • Question: Do I NOT believe Jesus when He says the Devil 'was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING'................... but do I instead believe MAN who says: the Devil was NOT a 'murderer from the beginning' and the Devil did NOT 'sinneth from the beginning', but instead he was a sinless, holy angel in the beginning?


    Answer: No, I do not.
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Give you a credit for the attempt - as I said, herein lie dragons.

Quoting John as historical fact is fraught with danger. The long discourses covering several pages in John of Jesus have no parellels in the synoptic Gospels. So it would seem John is putting his theology into the mouth of Jesus - particular when we know John was writing towards the end of the first century, some 70 years after Jesus.

So to demand of anyone that we must 'believe' what John has written as historical truth is questionable.

John writes in the tradition of mystics and does not adopt the narrative genre of the synoptics writers.

The point is that trying to defend the image of a 'good' God almost demands that you adopt an ideology that reflects your beliefs rather than what the biblical texts actually allude to. Quite simple, we don't know why sin, along with death and suffering are part of God's plan other that we have to deal with these issues. Perhaps how we do that is part of God's economy.

Personally, I think humanity gives far too much credit to satan. What is of greater concern is my own weakness and failings - not some superstitious being supposedly roaming around looking for someone to devour. Fantasy is not my thing.
 
God did cause sin to enter this world and His Creation, because before the World began, He purposed that by it, He would magnify His Law, and the Riches of His Wisdom and Grace through Jesus Christ !

Isa 42:21

The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

Eph 2:7

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.


Eph 3:8,10

Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
 
Is God the cause of evil in this His World ? Yes He is, God is the First and Primary cause of all Evil, Sin and Death in His World Isa 45:7

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

For God ordered the evil of sin and death for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Christ Jesus.

Satan, that serpent, and Adam and eve all did perform their role in bringing about what God had Eternally Purposed, for all they did to bring sin and death into the world was only what God Himself, before they were ever created, deliberated what they should do, as it is explained in another place Acts 4:27-28

27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Peter said that these in Vs 27 were gathered together, that is they were passive, they were brought together by the active predetermination of God, to do [carry out or execute] whatever God had purposed or determined to be done, and so it was with the serpent, Adam and Eve on that day eve by the behesting of the devil through the serpent did eat of the forbidden fruit and gave to her husband with her so that he could eat, for all that which then transpired was the Eternal purpose of God coming into fruition or realization !
 
Prov 8:22 and Col 1:16

Prov 8:22

22 The Lord possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

The LXX :22 The Lord made me the beginning of his ways for his works.

Col 1:16

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

This World, this earth was brought into existence or being, and all therein for a redemptive purpose centered in Christ Jesus, the Lamb setup and slain before the foundation of the world or before it began Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

In all things, Creation included Christ has the preeminence Col 1:16-18

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

Now it is the understanding of a great many in organized religion, false religion, that Christ had not this preeminence but that His creature man did, adam, giving Christ a subservient purpose to him, whom was only needed after adam failed God's original and primary purpose for man, and so Christ in their estimation was not the preeminence in God's First original and Eternal Purpose Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

However, our texts Prov 8:22 [lxx] and Col 1:16 oppose that wisdom of men, and does have us to understand that Christ was first setup for God's other works !
 
Prov 8:22 and Col 1:16 cont


This Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:11 is Redemptive, it entailed man bringing in sin into the World, and Death by Sin, in order that Christ in the fulness of Time, and according to God's Eternal Purpose in Him, would come into the World, to be made of a woman under the Law Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time[and purpose Ecc 3:1-2] was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

The Law, not the mosaic law, but the same Law that Adam was under, The Law of Creation, which is the condensed form of the Ten Commandments, and to redeem them that was under that Law, so that they might receive the Adoption of Sons, through Jesus Christ Gal 4:4-5

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

That which they had been predestinated unto Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

For this purpose to come into fruition, Christ was given a work to perform, a Work that Necessitated His Death upon the Cross, which was alluded to here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

This Work the Father gave Him to do would Glorify Him First and Foremost above all things, It would Magnify God's Law and make it honorable to a supreme degree above any creature could do, including adam Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

It was these things in the Mind of God that God Created the World for Christ's Eternal Redemptive Purpose.

This is how God chose to make known His Love for His World that He Created Jn 3:16; 1 Jn 4:9-10 !

These says it all, that God purposed to show and prove His Love, by sending Christ into the World to be the propitiation for our sins. So it is undermining the Love of God to deny that He purposed sin and death into the World for and Redemptive Purpose in Christ !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
Prov 8:22 and Col 1:16 cont


This Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:11 is Redemptive, it entailed man bringing in sin into the World, and Death by Sin, in order that Christ in the fulness of Time, and according to God's Eternal Purpose in Him, would come into the World, to be made of a woman under the Law Gal 4:4

4 But when the fulness of the time[and purpose Ecc 3:1-2] was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

The Law, not the mosaic law, but the same Law that Adam was under, The Law of Creation, which is the condensed form of the Ten Commandments, and to redeem them that was under that Law, so that they might receive the Adoption of Sons, through Jesus Christ Gal 4:4-5

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

That which they had been predestinated unto Eph 1:5

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

For this purpose to come into fruition, Christ was given a work to perform, a Work that Necessitated His Death upon the Cross, which was alluded to here Jn 17:4

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

This Work the Father gave Him to do would Glorify Him First and Foremost above all things, It would Magnify God's Law and make it honorable to a supreme degree above any creature could do, including adam Isa 42:21

21 The Lord is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will magnify the law, and make it honourable.

It was these things in the Mind of God that God Created the World for Christ's Eternal Redemptive Purpose.

This is how God chose to make known His Love for His World that He Created Jn 3:16; 1 Jn 4:9-10 !

These says it all, that God purposed to show and prove His Love, by sending Christ into the World to be the propitiation for our sins. So it is undermining the Love of God to deny that He purposed sin and death into the World for and Redemptive Purpose in Christ !
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So many false statements and I have so little time! Let no man say when he is tempted that he was tempted by God! For in Him there is no darkness at all! Darkness came in because man believed a lie! Darkness yet abides in men, because the Light has come and men love darkness! If one does not have His Spirit? He is not of the Light!
 
That Grace may abound !

Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ? Yes, in order that Grace may abound ! Rom 5:20-21

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Thats why Adam received the Law from God's Mouth Gen 2:17

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

God Created this world for an Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus, in order that from the backdrop of sin and death, His Grace may abound and reign unto Eternal Life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Contrary to popular opinion, Eternal Life was never to be found in Adam, but always through Jesus Christ by way of Grace, in fact it was promised Him, Jesus Christ, as a Mediator and Surety before the World Began Titus 1:1-2

Paul, a servant of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect, and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

That this promise was first made to Christ is alluded to here by Paul Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And since to Him, His seed in Him also Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The Promise of Eternal Life to Christ was typed out in King David in scriptures like Ps 89:1-4;28-36

I will sing of the mercies of the Lord for ever: with my mouth will I make known thy faithfulness to all generations.

2 For I have said, Mercy shall be built up for ever: thy faithfulness shalt thou establish in the very heavens.

3 I have made a covenant with my chosen, I have sworn unto David my servant,

4 Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations. Selah.

28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.

29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.

30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;

31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;

32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.

33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail.

34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.

35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.

Other NT scripture that indicates Eternal Life as a Promise through Christ 1 Jn 2:25;5:10-12

25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.


10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

Before the World began God purposed salvation by Grace, and for the Praise of His Grace Eph 1:3-6

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Eph 2:1-7

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Vs 7 being our focus. This Purpose of Grace from the backdrop of sin and death, was God's Eternal Purpose in Christ, that as sin reigned in death, even so Grace might also reign through Righteousness, culminating into Eternal Life [Promised before the ages began Titus 1:2] through Jesus Christ our Lord !
 
False doctrine! Rom 5:12 Through one MAN sin entered into the world! Adam! not God brought sin into this world!
 
Osgiliath said:
You are right S. The idea that Satan was once a "holy angel" who fell is yet another of man's false traditions that makes void the Word of God.


Who does Christ tell us is the original murderer?

John 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father you will do. He was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."


So let's just ask the question: "How long has Satan been a murderer?" Did he start out as a good angel who went bad? Well, what did Christ just tell us? What Christ has just told those with eyes to see, is: He ["Your father, the devil"] was a murderer FROM THE BEGINNING, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
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you are not a murderer until you commit murder. You are not evil, until you do that which is evil, you are not a devil until iniquity is found in you. You interpret {From the beginning} to mean the beginning of the creation of Lucifer. The Bible does not say that is what beginning He is referring to, that is what man interprets. He was a murderer from the beginning, that is NOT the beginning of his creation as false teachers teach. but the beginning of his murderering. If i say that guy was a thief from the beginning, How is that interpreted to mean from the time he was born? It doesn't. When i say he was a thief from the beginning, i am not saying the beginning of his life, as a baby, but from the beginning when the thieving started. The Word of God says He was a murderer from the beginning, beginning of what? his creation? NO not his creation, but from the beginning of his murdering. If i say "That man was a liar from the beginning" Am i saying that he was created that way, born that way? NO! i am most assuredly referring to when that man started to lie, when that man was able to lie. satan was a murderer from the beginning, this is True. Not the beginning of his creation, but when sin was found in him.

Ezekiel28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. Eze

How simple is this verse to understand, that even children can read it and understand the simplicity in it. Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways, UNTIL sin was found in him. This is what i teach as well, because it is what the Word of God PLAINLY teaches. Man teaches contrary to the Word of God, they will tell you that the above verse needs to be interpreted to mean something other then what it plainly says. They have to interpret that verse to fit what they personally believe to be the Truth, instead of changing their own belief to fit with what Scriptures plainly teach.
i teach that Lucifer was perfect in all his ways until sin was found in him. Do i teach that or does the Word of God plainly teach that. i will continue to believe the Word of God and what He has told me, and not listen to the teachings of men, who teach things contrary to sound doctrine, things like, lucifer was not perfect in all his ways, he was created to be evil and wicked. Which this teaching can be found NOWHERE in all of Scriptures, this is a teaching of men who teach false doctrines so that people will believe as they do.

God creates evil and darkness this is True, This does not mean he created sin as false teacher teach. Lucifer created sin, God will use what lucifer does to farther God's own plan. For it is written All things happen for the good to them that beleive. God allows satan to do what he does, this is True, But God is not the author of sin. Lucifer created sin, he is the father of it.

there was a reason Lucifer was kicked out of Heaven. Guess what, prior to being kicked out of Heaven, where was he? IN HEAVEN, why was he in Heaven? Because he, like all the other inhabitants of Heaven, worshiped God. Then something happened that caused him to be kicked out of Heaven. Sin was in Heaven. Believe the Word of God which plainly teaches that Lucifer was created perfect in all his ways UNTIL sin was found in him. Believe the Word of God and not what false teachers teach. Anyone who teaches anything that is contrary to Scriptures is indeed a false teacher and will not escape His wrath in the hour of temptation that will come upon the inhabitants of the World.

^i^
 
smaller said:
Iniquity hid is iniquity regardless.

There is not a single text that presents Satan as once Holy or the 'once supposedly' perfect brother of Jesus.

s
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Iniquity is to transgress, one must first transgress before iniquity is found in that one. Iniquity is not in a person UNTIL they transgress. So then iniquity hid his iniquity makes no sense to me.

You say there is not a single text that presents satan as once Holy, yet there is a verse that plainly teaches that he was, you just don't believe it.

Ezekiel 28:15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Ezekiel28:15 Lucifer was perfect in all his ways until sin was found in him.

Is it God's fault that you do not believe His Word? You say there is not one verse, yet there it is plainly written. Woe to this generation who will take a verse that needs no interpretation and ADD their own interpretation to that verse so that it fits their own beliefs. And not, as a child merely believe what it says.

^i^
 
The Purpose of Creation !

The Purpose of Creation ! How is it do we know that God is the direct cause of sin and death entering His World ? For it is because He is the direct cause of making this Earth that He may show forth His Wisdom in the purpose of redemption of His Saints Eph 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Rom 11:33-36

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Now here Paul in concluding His discourse on Israel and the Mystery of the Gentiles in Rom 11, ends it with the doxology of the Wisdom of God, the same Wisdom of God displayed in the Mystery of the Church here Eph 3:6-10

6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

7 Whereof I was made a minister, according to the gift of the grace of God given unto me by the effectual working of his power.

8 Unto me, who am less than the least of all saints, is this grace given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ;

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

And Vs 9 states He Created all things by Jesus Christ and in His Colossian Letter, all things were also created for Jesus Christ, in order of the Eternal Redemptive Purpose Col 1:14-16

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

The Redemption in Vs 14 was purposed in the Creation in Vs 16 !
 
For Christ, who is the Wisdom of God, in Him the Father manifests His Wisdom, He [Christ] was ordained before the foundation of the World 1 Pet 1:20

Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

1 Cor 2:7

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:

Eph 3:10-11

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

In Him all Wisdom dwells Col 2:3

In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

This again proves to those who have eyes to see, that this Earth was Created for an Redemptive Purpose to show case God's Wisdom in Christ, this Redemptive Purpose caused God to ordain and bring sin and death into His World !

And to say that God's show case of Wisdom was a response to something outside of of Himself, is Blasphemous and denies it being of His Own Purpose !

2 Tim 1:9

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
Gace given before the World Began !

We know that God created this World for a Redemptive from sin purpose through Christ Jesus because of His Purpose and Grace given us in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us/salvation, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This Grace was given us [If an elect] in that God purposed the Fall of the Elect in Adam Gen 2:17, in order that His amazing saving Grace would be in display through out the timeless ages Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

This was God's Goal and Purpose for decreeing sin into the World, a Purpose of Grace !

Yes God purposed[before the World Began] to enjoy the praises of the saved by Grace throughout Eternity ! Rev 7:10-12

10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

You see God had this very end in Mind and Heart before He Created the World !

God purposed that when sin abounded, His Grace would super abound, reigning through Righteousness by Jesus Christ unto Eternal Life. Rom 5:

20 Moreover the law entered Gen 2:17, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

You see God never purposed for Eternal Life to come through Adam in a unfallen state, that should be clear by the very fact that Grace [for Salvation] was Given in Christ BEFORE THE WORLD BEGAN !!! See 2 Tim 1:9 ! Before Adam was Created in Time, for Adam was Created in time in pursuit of God's Eternal Purpose of Grace that was Given us before time began or the world began, the same thing !
 
Creation for Grace Manifested !


We know that this World was Created with a Purpose for sin and death, as it was concerning the Election of Grace, in Christ Jesus Eph 1:4. So the sin of Adam was of Divine Purpose in that God hath before the World Began purposed to make manifest the Glory of His Grace Eph 1:6

To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

And that His full Godhead of Father, Son / Word, and Holy Ghost would Glorify their Attributes of Mercy, Justice, Power, Faithfulness and Immutability, so that in the coming ages, He might shew the Riches of His Grace in His Kindness toward us [ The Election of Grace Eph 1:4] through Jesus Christ !

Eph 2:7

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us[The Chosen Eph 1:4] through Christ Jesus.

This Grace in Purpose was given us in Christ Jesus before the World Began 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
The Elect or the Children of God sinned in Adam!

When the Election of Grace, Those Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1:4

4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

God was not surprised, disappointed, or none of that, for He did not have to begin another Purpose for man, because Adam's sin with the Elect in Him only answered the end for which He had arranged and Purposed !

It was an Purpose of Election of Grace Rom 9:11

11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth )

This Purpose preceded Creation, it was one of Predestination of an Elect People unto Salvation, to obedience and sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus Christ. Rom 8:28-30

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose [of election Rom 9:11].

29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

That word firstborn in Vs 29 s the same word used in Col 1:18

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.

It has to do with Christ's Resurrection from the Dead See Rev 1:5 also, so this indicates that Christ's Death, burial, and Resurrection was according to an Eternal Purpose arranged before the World Began, and Creation of the Earth served that Purpose !

1 Pet 1:2

2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Their Calling, their Sanctification of the Spirit, and Belief of the Truth were predestinated from the beginning 2 Thess 2:13-14

13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

God Created the World with this Calling of the Gospel in Mind and Purposed !

He purposed their Justification freely by Grace through the Redemption that is in Christ Jesus Rom 3:24


24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Which Grace was given them In Christ Jesus Before the World Began !

2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
 
The Elect or the Children of God sinned in Adam! 2

So before the world began, God's Purpose of Election of Grace for His Elect which were in Adam when he sinned, was their Redemption through His Blood and Manifested Justification y Grace through that Redemption, also their Resurrection from the dead, and their bodies being changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye 1 Cor 15:52

51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

This Mystery was also predicated on Christ Resurrection from the Dead before the World Began.

This change here Phil 3:20-21

20 For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

All this was in the Eternal Purpose of God Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

All this was decreed for His Chosen, He did choose in Christ before the foundation of the World. Jesus will say to them in the Last Day Matt 25:34

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Prepared by His Eternal Purpose In Christ Eph 3:11 !
 
God's Eternal Purpose caused sin !

We know that God ordained sin and death into His World because before the World was Created [for His Purpose] Christ in the Eternal Purpose of God, had been slain Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Which does correspond with 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Also corresponds with His going forth in the Purpose of God to be made in due time under the law to die Gal 4:4,5

But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

This Eternal Redemptive Purpose was set from everlasting as in Micah 5:2

2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

And what was He to be slain for in the fulness of time according to God's Eternal Purpose but sin ! The Transgression of His People.God's Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ was Immutable,and it was not modified or altered one bit because of Adam' sin and bringing in sin and Death into the World Rom 5:12,at all transpired in the garden with Adam in accordance to God's Purpose and Counsel and own will Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

This Purpose was set from Everlasting !
 
Isa 46:10


We know that sin and death were of God's ordination and Eternal Decree when we consider such verses as this which reveal the Character of the True God Isa 46:10

10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

All in this world since Creation, between the end and beginning,all that has occurred and will occur, is His declared counsel, whereby He worketh all things according to His own will. Eph 1:11

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Dan 4:35

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

Now, did Lucifer rebel in heaven ?, Did Adam sin from the beginning and bring death into the world ? Yes, and then it was according to the counsel of God's own will, and to deny this is theological atheism ! We deny the True God !
 
This world was created for a redemptive purpose !

Romans 8:18-23

18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly [of ones own freewill], but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

22 For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.

23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

That this world or creation was created for a redemptive purpose,by which God did cause sin to come into His World, is seen in the afore passage.

Who was it that subjected the Creation to Vanity, meaning who caused the fall of man [Adam], for it was God, because it was done IN HOPE,meaning in conjunction with His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11.

What Hope is Paul referring to ? We will look at several scriptures for clarification Titus 1:2

2 In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

This promise and Hope was in full effect from the Eternal Counsels of God, when Adam was created AFTER the World Began !!

For the Promised Hope of Eternal Life was never contingent upon Adam after he was created, but in God's Son, the Lord Jesus Christ before the World Began. This the Apostles preached 1 Jn 5:11-12

11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

So in Adam's creation, He was created by God , in his physical creation headship to be subjected unto vanity along with natural creation with him IN HOPE, the Hope of Eternal Life that God promised before Adam was ever created or even before the earth of which he was created out of was created !
 
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