Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

[savedbygrace57]

dad

Redemption from sin.

Exactly, God made adam within the purpose of His People being redeemed from sin. So God causes Adam to sin according to His Redemptive Purpose. That is one of the Purposes why God made Adam, to bring sin into the word and death by sin Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This is exactly how God purposed it to occur in pursuance of His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus ! You understand now ?

 

[savedbygrace57]

rain

Because Jesus Christ was predestined then God must have
created man with
an evil disposition.

Yes, Where else did Eve get the evil disposition she had to follow the serpents temptation ? Gen 3:1-6

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

Eve is an example of what James states here James 1:14-15


14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

The temptation of satan stirred up her evil propensities in her flesh, the flesh she was created with by God !

 

[gr8fulbeliever]

Redemption from sin. Where you are mistaken is buying into Calvinism's double predestination. We are definitely predestined by God for heaven, but due to our free will, we can choose the path that leads to hell. I'd you will look at the verses of Scripture that mention predestination closely, you'll find they don't teach negative predestination, only positive. We are redeemed because we choose sin.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives to me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

This is only one of a host of scriptures that clearly tell us that all who are appointed for salvation will be saved.

 

[rainbows]

So savedbygrace57 you are saying God created billions of people.

God created them to suffer under the dominion of evil.

After they had suffered they were judged and sentenced
to hell.

This is pure theology that is why it does not make any
sense.

How could God sentence anyone to hell when He caused
the sinful nature?

 

[childeye]

From a perspective outside of time it could be said that God created everything for His purpose. Sin however, is a usurping of what is, and is therefore vanity. By definition God cannot create vanity. But it seems vanity was inevitable as is clearly seen in hindsight and God does use it unto His Glory. In other words we all are left arguing semantics.

 

[Elijah674]

James 1
[13] Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

We need to watch what we try to add to Gods Word, or attempt to take away from it! Rev. 22:18-19 And to say that God is the cause of 'sin & evil in the world' is doing satans work for him.

 

[savedbygrace57]

God Glorified through Jesus Christ !

1 Pet 4:11

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world, so that He may be Glorified through Jesus Christ. Without sin entering into the World, this Eternal Purpose would not have been accomplished!

No man can worship God or Glorify God aright and acceptability if not through Jesus Christ, this applies even back to Adam, the First Man. All men who worship and extol and Praise the True and Living God, must Worship Him in Spirit and In Truth Jn 4:23-24

23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

And that can only be through Jesus Christ, whom is the Way, the Truth, and the Life, and no man comes to the Father [in Worship] but by Christ, the Mediator between God and Men. God did not reveal Christ to Adam until after the Fall and sin had entered into the World, here in Gen 3:15 !

When Jesus says John 4 :23-24 that they which worship God must worship Him in Spirit and Truth, He is informing us that one must be born again of the Spirit , New Birth to Worship God aright, that goes all the way back to Adam ! Adam and the Elect in him before the fall, could not ,please God in the flesh Rom 8:8 ! The fall proved it !

It is through New Birth through Christ that we become True Worshippers as God desires Jn 4:23

It is through sin, that God ordained that His People would Worship and Glorify Him through Jesus Christ !

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

John 6:37 "All that the Father gives to me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out."

This is only one of a host of scriptures that clearly tell us that all who are appointed for salvation will be saved.

The way God draws is explained in Jn 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me. "


The way the drawing is done is people are TAUGHT, HEAR and LEARN God's word and then people of their own free will COME unto Christ. The drawing therefore is not some random, unconditional, forced appointment God made for each person before the world began.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

So savedbygrace57 you are saying God created billions of people.

God created them to suffer under the dominion of evil.

After they had suffered they were judged and sentenced
to hell.

This is pure theology that is why it does not make any
sense.

How could God sentence anyone to hell when He caused
the sinful nature?

Eze 33:11 "Say unto them, [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? "


God has no pleasure in the wicked being lost but desires the wicked turn from his way and live. Yet savedbygrace57 has God doing the very thing He does not like or desire. Savebygrace57 is creating a conflict/contradiction within God's own nature in that he thinks God creates people to be wicked just so that they will die spiritually, the very thing God does not want.

 

[dadof10]

dad



Exactly, God made adam within the purpose of His People being redeemed from sin. So God causes Adam to sin according to His Redemptive Purpose. That is one of the Purposes why God made Adam, to bring sin into the word and death by sin Rom 5:12

Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

This is exactly how God purposed it to occur in pursuance of His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus ! You understand now ?

God didn't create Adam with a sin nature. He created him with a will that is free to choose sin. Notice the verse you posted says "THROUGH ONE MAN sin entered into the world". If God created Adam's sin nature, sin would have entered through God, not Adam.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

 

[ww9d]

The answer to the question is absolutely Yes ! All things are made or created for God's good pleasure....

The problem is How could the Eternal Holy God create Evil? How Could The Holy Son of God be born of evil flesh? The answer to both Questions is “the premise is wrong.†God did not create evil and all flesh is not evil. There are some ideas that are basic to logic. If there is good the absence of good is evil. There is a level of thought that comes from elemental concepts. God cannot be evil. The very meaning of evil is an elemental opposite of God. To say this another way some ideas are so basic they are the foundation of the discussion. Elemental Ideas are so basic they come from the character and nature of God Himself and were not created by God they ARE the basis of the discussion. Words and ideas have meaning, elemental ideas come from the foundation of reality, they just are. God is Holy, Love, Good. Did God create Holiness, Good, Love, Mercy, Justice? No, they are the attributes that describe who God is. The Opposite exist because opposite is elemental to the Idea, ungodly, unholy, hate, and evil. From the idea God could not create sin came the many other ideas trying to explain how sin came to be. It is simple, To Disobey GOD is SIN. Man made a choice to disobey God.

 

[rainbows]

Hello savedbygrace.

This is what you stated;

"In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world"

Do you see the paradox that this theology is presenting savedbygrace.

God is love and He creates a person with the express intent of
sentencing that person to eternal damnation. With no hope
of redemption, no way to be saved.

That person never knew God or understood love but is consigned
to suffering for eternity.

That person represents the vast majority of people who ever lived.

There are very serious errors in the theology you are presenting.

I am surprised that you do not see the paradox?

I do think you may have misunderstood the will of God.

 

[Elijah674]

Hello savedbygrace.

This is what you stated;

"In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world"

Do you see the paradox that this theology is presenting savedbygrace.

God is love and He creates a person with the express intent of
sentencing that person to eternal damnation. With no hope
of redemption, no way to be saved.

That person never knew God or understood love but is consigned
to suffering for eternity.

That person represents the vast majority of people who ever lived.

There are very serious errors in the theology you are presenting.

I am surprised that you do not see the paradox?

I do think you may have misunderstood the will of God.

'I do think you may have misunderstood the will of God.' Just think?? Kind of weak on that one, huh?

--Elijah

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Is God the Cause of sin and evil in the world ?

Originally Posted by rainbows
Hello savedbygrace.

This is what you stated;

"In the Eternal Purpose of God, He ordained sin, caused sin and death to enter this world"

Do you see the paradox that this theology is presenting savedbygrace.

God is love and He creates a person with the express intent of
sentencing that person to eternal damnation. With no hope
of redemption, no way to be saved.

That person never knew God or understood love but is consigned
to suffering for eternity.

That person represents the vast majority of people who ever lived.

There are very serious errors in the theology you are presenting.

I am surprised that you do not see the paradox?

I do think you may have misunderstood the will of God.

_______




savedbygrace.
You do not understand that this World was created for a Redemptive Purpose !
________

This world? You mean that the Eternal Gospel is not Eternal? Rev. 14:6. And that you cannot change your position, means that you are one done deal one way or the other already, and I see your postings as one of the most stubborn ream after ream posters that 'i' have ever run into! (and you can't change??) :robot

I do agree that it sure looks as if you cannot ever change? But my reason is understood differently than your postings, Heb. 6:6 & 2 Peter 2:20-22 sounds like it might just be ratified already??? As Peter told us also in Acts 3:19

---Elijah
​

 

[John O]

bass




Yes He did, how could He had Purposed Christ to be slain before the foundation if He did not ? He purposed that He be slained by wicked hands Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the Book of Life of the Lamb, slain from the foundation of the world.

Acts 2:23

23 Him, being delivered by the determinate will and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken and by wicked hands have crucified and slain.

It appears you get to attributes of God mixed up and interchange them. God is all knowing therefore as you quite rightly said he foreknew what would happened thus in revelation 13:8 He describes the slaying of His Son. (This was not a surprise to Him)

He is also all powerful and just as He knew that Adam and Eve would sin He prepared a redemption plan. His Son was and is that redemption Plan so God did not create evil but He most certainly allowed the possibility of sin but God is never surprised and never without a plan.

John O

 

[savedbygrace57]

It appears you get to attributes of God mixed up and interchange them. God is all knowing therefore as you quite rightly said he foreknew what would happened thus in revelation 13:8 He describes the slaying of His Son. (This was not a surprise to Him)

He is also all powerful and just as He knew that Adam and Eve would sin He prepared a redemption plan. His Son was and is that redemption Plan so God did not create evil but He most certainly allowed the possibility of sin but God is never surprised and never without a plan.

John O

You do not understand that this world was Created for an Redemptive Purpose, the Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam and Ever were Created in pursuance of the fulfilment of that Redemptive Purpose, adam's role in that Purpose was to bring sin and death into the world !

 

[John O]

You do not understand that this world was Created for an Redemptive Purpose, the Eternal Purpose of Christ Eph 3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

Adam and Ever were Created in pursuance of the fulfilment of that Redemptive Purpose, adam's role in that Purpose was to bring sin and death into the world !

Once again savedbygrace you take a personal interpretation of the word of God. Yes there is most certainly a redemptive purpose and that was for Christ to reconcile mankind including Adam unto the Father.

Joh 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Joh 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus clearly states that the purpose was to bring eternal life and that eternal life comes when man knows the Father and His Son.

I have listed Ephesians 3:11-21 to help you see how you misquoted the purpose you said was in 3:11.

Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:
Eph 3:12 In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.
Eph 3:13 Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.
Eph 3:14 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,
Eph 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,
Eph 3:16 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;
Eph 3:17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
Eph 3:18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
Eph 3:19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,
Eph 3:21 Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.


John O

 

[Hawkins]

There are 2 perspective here. One is His absolute sovereignty by which things came to existence. From this perspective one may consider that He created all existence, or rather He allows their existence. From this perspective, it by no means says that everything existed are all out of His pleasue. He clearly says that He hates sin.

The other perspective is things that He actively creates.

An anology is how a sword is crafted. The blacksmith as the designer and crafter will actively create a sword. And every sword will be with residues. From the perspective of his absolute sovereignty, you might say that he "created" those residues, yet they have nothing to do with the blacksmith's pleasure so to speak. He just allow them to be so as part of his creation process which is deemed necessary or inevitable.

He also hopes that the users to use it for good purpose. It's not his fault but yours if you have to use the sword to do the evil deeds.

 

[savedbygrace57]

dad

God didn't create Adam with a sin nature.

Yes He did. Thats why eve sinned, because of the evil desires i her nature and the devil knew it Gen 3:1-6

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:

3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

She was enticed as James says here James 1:14-15

14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.

15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

Sin was brought forth from eve because it was there in her laying dormant !

 

[former atheist]

In my own understanding, God created mankind in his own image and in his own likeness.

Genesis 1:27 (NIV) So God created mankind in his own image,
</SPAN> in the image of God he created them;

This can mean that mankind has free will. Just as God has free will. We can arrive at that conclusion using a simple expression of logic. If God Created mankind in his own image and likeness, and if Mankind has free will. Therefore, God has free will. (Because mankind received free will from God.)

The issue with our free will is that it can be expressed in ways that do not align with Gods will, and can result in acts and thoughts that are sinful; also considered and described as evil. Now, Sin can simply be understood to be a violation of Gods will, and this sin is what we actually describe as evil.

Therefore, we first should understand that evil, as understood to be sin, was not created by God, because Sin is a violation of Gods will, and God does not violate his own will. Mankind however does violate Gods will, and God created mankind.

Does this mean that God has violated his own will in and through His creation of mankind? I do not think so because Gods will was for us to have a likeness to him, to be created in his own image.

Therefore, Gods will for us as his creation was to be like him. However, again, it presents a problem for mankind to be like God in having our own free will, because our free will empowers and allows for our will to contradict Gods will. Thus, the birth of Sin in mankind and the Birth of what we describe as evil.

In my opinion, God is not the source of Evil or the source of Sin in this world or anywhere for that matter. The sources of evil and the sources of Sin in this world are from our willful neglect, our willful irrelevance and irreverence of and for Gods will.

I believe, that evil is truly something that should be realized as a failure of mankind to be like God himself; through no contradiction of God and His Will, because Gods Will for this failure is in part why God’s forgiveness and mercy is allotted, and offered upon us as grace to fulfill God Will in the arena of His Justice. God knows and knew that our Will would not and shall not always match his own, and that his sense of perfect Justice would destroy us all. Therefore, God in his wisdom and through his provision of mercy, love, grace and fellowship; has sent us Jesus Christ, and has sent us the Holy Spirit, to bring us, to unite us, with his Will, with his Justice and with his love.

Therefore, all parts of Gods Will will ultimately be complete. His Will for us to be in his image is being fulfilled by our union as a body in Christ whereas our faults are purified and brought to Glory by the Glory of Christ. His Will for perfect Justice, will be fulfilled upon his final Judgment of mankind. His intent for mankind to be likened to him is being completed through this process of our union with the Holy Spirit in the Body of Christ, of which God, through His perfect wisdom, has all along been in the making.

To answer the question: “Is God the cause of all of the evil in the world?†I would answer that question with a confident no. God does not control our will and is therefore not the cause of evil. As I discussed above, God does not contradict his own will or nature. I would however say that God is responsible, and I believe that is why mankind will be judged for its use of Free Will to violate Gods Free will. Gods Justice demands that his accountability for his creation, bring his creation to that same idea of Justice. Therefore, we will be judge.