Is hellfire real?

[YosefHayim]

I also have a somewhat scientific interpretation of hellfire, believe it or not. Think about what we are on an energetic level. We take in fuel from consumption (carbohydrates), mix them with oxygen from the atmosphere, and burn the mixture in little furnaces called mitochondria inside most of our cells. This gives us the energy for life, but what does it make us? Literal combustion engines, producing constant heat until we die. Stop or even slow the thermal production for even a few minutes, and we suffer terminal shutdown (death).

So we are like little funaces running around, why don't we feel the heat? Yes, we have natural heat dissipation systems, but why don't we feel the heat? Because God insulates us from the sensation of heat. Without his grace, we would burn alive from our own metabolic processes.

Maybe that's what happens in Hell. These people have rejected God. So He withdraws his protection, and they burn up from the inside out. They're not just thrown into a lake of fire; they ARE the lake of fire. NDEs (my favorite subject) have made several references to the fire burning from within the damned soul's essence.

Do you have any sources or books you could provide concerning this topic which have come to a similar conclusion?

 

[jasonc]

What do you think happens to a person when they die?Do you believe a person has a soul?Do you believe in hell?Do you believe in a literal tribualtion?What is going to happen there?Who will be in that tribulation?How long do you think that tribulation will last?What do you think will happen after that tribulation?

1) I don't believe in any seven year trib that is to come.
2) I am amil and a partial preterist
3) on isreal. since I am of isreal and born in florida and as most of jews in America and my family whom are in America for the most part. we there fore are cut off from that concept. how can I be cut off from my bloodlisne by geography? you do realize in Judaism isreal isn't just land but the people whom follow the torah and wherever they go the Heshem outside of isreal sends his glory to be with them.
4) if you are correct in that there is an immediate location after death with jesus or God in heaven. then you must see the conundrum you are in. as that means in heaven you have a body, a jew or gentile in the trib is in heaven talks to jesus and doesn't have a body to do that with!
5) I don't believe in soul sleep.
6) the death of my jewish grandparents and uncle has forced me to look at this. the mourner's kaddish and what it entails is very old and its frankly a good thing to know about. it was done at the time of jesus for rabbi's.

 

[Kathi]

1) I don't believe in any seven year trib that is to come.
2) I am amil and a partial preterist
3) on isreal. since I am of isreal and born in florida and as most of jews in America and my family whom are in America for the most part. we there fore are cut off from that concept. how can I be cut off from my bloodlisne by geography? you do realize in Judaism isreal isn't just land but the people whom follow the torah and wherever they go the Heshem outside of isreal sends his glory to be with them.
4) if you are correct in that there is an immediate location after death with jesus or God in heaven. then you must see the conundrum you are in. as that means in heaven you have a body, a jew or gentile in the trib is in heaven talks to jesus and doesn't have a body to do that with!
5) I don't believe in soul sleep.
6) the death of my jewish grandparents and uncle has forced me to look at this. the mourner's kaddish and what it entails is very old and its frankly a good thing to know about. it was done at the time of jesus for rabbi's.

Unanswered:
1) What do you think happens to a person when they die?
2) Do you believe a person has a soul?
3)Do you believe in hell?
4) Do you believe in heaven and who will be in heaven if you do?

 

[jasonc]

Unanswered:
1) What do you think happens to a person when they die?
2) Do you believe a person has a soul?
3)Do you believe in hell?
4) Do you believe in heaven and who will be in heaven if you do?

if I say I don't believe in soul sleep what does that mean. if I say study up on sheol and what that is and gehenna and hades and such like what does that mean to you, have you read what the greek myth say about hades? I know, its a place of two levels or more. the closer to the earth you are the better off you are, just as it is with sheol.

partial preterist all believe in a resurrected state. they look to it. I also said that we have a soul, we are a soul. see one of my earlier posts you quoted. I mention greek myths and the jewish concept of sheol for good reasons. I have studied them. like I said the death of my grandma made think and look into what the idea of sheol was . jews believe that its a type of purgatory.if you look at luke 16 it hints at that Idea. that is what jews today say about torah and what happens to those that fail to do it and if bad enough they don't rise from it. hmmm torment for the worst. avadon!

gehinnom is a type of place in jewish thought. its exactly what we call hell. a place of smoke and fire and sulfur. most modern jews call that a purgatory too. I don't I see that as the final place for the wicked.

add one should understand what paradise is in jewish thought. jesus didn't say heaven to the theif, he instead today thou shall be with me in paradise. that is really close to what we call heaven. hmm often jesus spoke in their language so they could get it. he had too. they were the ones he told. they then told others and so on to us.jew intermix heaven and paradise a lot. both to them are the same.

did I say I didn't say there wasn't a judgement. please read and know what I take a position on. I state my views often in the end times. in short
1) I believe in a resurrection of the just and unjust, the just to eternal life and the unjust to eternal damnation
2) eternal life is as such. a bodily resurrection on the earth
3) in the interim I believe that the saint is with jesus,
4) does this mean there isn't grey? NO I have stumped a man on when was sheol emptied and cast into the lake of fire whom is a pre tribber amil type and he believes that sheol has no saints. I can see that as it mentioned of saints being raised after the cross and also pauls verse to be absent with the body is to be present with the lord.
5) I don't believe in any chialism as that means more then one resurrection. all saints will be with the lord when they die.

 

[Kathi]

if I say I don't believe in soul sleep what does that mean. if I say study up on sheol and what that is and gehenna and hades and such like what does that mean to you, have you read what the greek myth say about hades? I know, its a place of two levels or more. the closer to the earth you are the better off you are, just as it is with sheol.

partial preterist all believe in a resurrected state. they look to it. I also said that we have a soul, we are a soul. see one of my earlier posts you quoted. I mention greek myths and the jewish concept of sheol for good reasons. I have studied them. like I said the death of my grandma made think and look into what the idea of sheol was . jews believe that its a type of purgatory.if you look at luke 16 it hints at that Idea. that is what jews today say about torah and what happens to those that fail to do it and if bad enough they don't rise from it. hmmm torment for the worst. avadon!

gehinnom is a type of place in jewish thought. its exactly what we call hell. a place of smoke and fire and sulfur. most modern jews call that a purgatory too. I don't I see that as the final place for the wicked.

add one should understand what paradise is in jewish thought. jesus didn't say heaven to the theif, he instead today thou shall be with me in paradise. that is really close to what we call heaven. hmm often jesus spoke in their language so they could get it. he had too. they were the ones he told. they then told others and so on to us.jew intermix heaven and paradise a lot. both to them are the same.

did I say I didn't say there wasn't a judgement. please read and know what I take a position on. I state my views often in the end times. in short
1) I believe in a resurrection of the just and unjust, the just to eternal life and the unjust to eternal damnation
2) eternal life is as such. a bodily resurrection on the earth
3) in the interim I believe that the saint is with jesus,
4) does this mean there isn't grey? NO I have stumped a man on when was sheol emptied and cast into the lake of fire whom is a pre tribber amil type and he believes that sheol has no saints. I can see that as it mentioned of saints being raised after the cross and also pauls verse to be absent with the body is to be present with the lord.
5) I don't believe in any chialism as that means more then one resurrection. all saints will be with the lord when they die.

if I say I don't believe in soul sleep what does that mean.You tell me.
The rest of it does not make alot of sense to me but apparently it does to you.Just as what I believe apparently does not make alot of sense to you.

 

[jasonc]

if I say I don't believe in soul sleep what does that mean.You tell me.
The rest of it does not make alot of sense to me but apparently it does to you.Just as what I believe apparently does not make alot of sense to you.

I know a lot about you doctrine. so I shouldn't study the word and see if the pastor says is true. I shouldn't read in context of what the people says. I shouldn't have look to the bible when I was challenged on this and not have read a book that all the more made see that the bible doesn't support the concepts of all of futurism.

oh I know where you come from. I should I debated it! and was a die hard pre tribber. I asked god what was does the bible say, and I wanted the bible not a book on what the bible says according to that writer. if its that clear it should be found in the church past. the pre trib doctrine isn't taught in any commentary prior to 1830, nor is mid trib, post trib.

I do believe in hell,(gehenna) I have debated with those that don't for some time so I made it a point to know the other positions as I was well that way too.if one is going to call sheol, hell then how can one debate that hell is real when one doesn't know what hell is?

 

[Kathi]

I know a lot about you doctrine. so I shouldn't study the word and see if the pastor says is true. I shouldn't read in context of what the people says. I shouldn't have look to the bible when I was challenged on this and not have read a book that all the more made see that the bible doesn't support the concepts of all of futurism.

oh I know where you come from. I should I debated it! and was a die hard pre tribber. I asked god what was does the bible say, and I wanted the bible not a book on what the bible says according to that writer. if its that clear it should be found in the church past. the pre trib doctrine isn't taught in any commentary prior to 1830, nor is mid trib, post trib.

I do believe in hell,(gehenna) I have debated with those that don't for some time so I made it a point to know the other positions as I was well that way too.if one is going to call sheol, hell then how can one debate that hell is real when one doesn't know what hell is?

All well and done.

 

[KevinK]

Do you have any sources or books you could provide concerning this topic which have come to a similar conclusion?

No, it is my own theory.

 

[YosefHayim]

[QUOTE="KevinK, post: 955546, member: 688conclusion? it is my own theory.[/QUOTE]
Good reads that led you to this conclus

 

[YosefHayim]

No, it is my own theory.

Any good reads that led you to this conclusion?

 

[KevinK]

Any good reads that led you to this conclusion?

Well, must thank you for being so interested in my crazy ideas (seriously). No, I majored in Biology at a Jesuit university, so this idea really just came from my own head. Unless you want to start on your bio degree yourself.

 

[YosefHayim]

Well, must thank you for being so interested in my crazy ideas (seriously). No, I majored in Biology at a Jesuit university, so this idea really just came from my own head. Unless you want to start on your bio degree yourself.

Dag yo! It does sound interesting. When you spoke of NDEs, I thought perhaps there were some testimonies you could share.

 

[KevinK]

Dag yo! It does sound interesting. When you spoke of NDEs, I thought perhaps there were some testimonies you could share.

Oh, OK, now I see where you're coming from. Well, I have studied a few NDEs that mention the fire of hell coming up from within a person, but only in that general sense (I can't remember which exactly). I came up with a more detailed explanation that may or may not have validity, but was interesting to me.

 

[jasonc]

ok so if does see that hell has literal flame. so satan and his angels are combustable? they die from simple oxidation? I believe that theres a place for torment of the lost and demons but its described in metaphors so that the early jewish Christian church would understand it.

 

[KevinK]

ok so if does see that hell has literal flame. so satan and his angels are combustable? they die from simple oxidation? I believe that theres a place for torment of the lost and demons but its described in metaphors so that the early jewish Christian church would understand it.

Well, I don't want to go too far out on a limb speculating, but.... All the demons, including Satan, burn and feel pain. Hell was, after all, created as a place of punishment for treasonous angels. Like human souls, they have "spiritual" bodies that burn, in both a transitive and intransitive sense. They burn, but don't burn up. Which sucks. We don't know exactly what will happen after Judgment, when the whole shebang goes into Gehenna (if I'm there I would just want to be consumed and soul-dead).

 

[Kathi]

Well, I don't want to go too far out on a limb speculating, but.... All the demons, including Satan, burn and feel pain. Hell was, after all, created as a place of punishment for treasonous angels. Like human souls, they have "spiritual" bodies that burn, in both a transitive and intransitive sense. They burn, but don't burn up. Which sucks. We don't know exactly what will happen after Judgment, when the whole shebang goes into Gehenna (if I'm there I would just want to be consumed and soul-dead).

Right those bodies and souls do not burn up in hell.They have an eternity of conscious torment.

 

[KevinK]

Right those bodies and souls do not burn up in hell.They have an eternity of conscious torment.

What do you think will happen in Gehenna?

 

[Kathi]

What do you think will happen in Gehenna?

Never mind what I think will happen in hell.Lets look at Scripture which is the truth.
Matthew 3:12
Matthew 25:41
Mathew 25:46
2 Thessalonians 1:9
Revelations 14:10

 

[jasonc]

Well, I don't want to go too far out on a limb speculating, but.... All the demons, including Satan, burn and feel pain. Hell was, after all, created as a place of punishment for treasonous angels. Like human souls, they have "spiritual" bodies that burn, in both a transitive and intransitive sense. They burn, but don't burn up. Which sucks. We don't know exactly what will happen after Judgment, when the whole shebang goes into Gehenna (if I'm there I would just want to be consumed and soul-dead).

its not then a literal fire, is there brimstone and planets and such like in this world? I know that the jews say but how does "death", the place called sheol which has the same thing of fire that torments be burned?

 

[jasonc]

again they have fire right? it burns right and there smoke right? and brimstone? think sulfur and the smell of rotten eggs and so strong that breathing isn't possible.