Is it dangerous to teach non-OSAS?

[Jethro Bodine]

I think both OSAS and non-OSAS will say B

Correct me if I missed it, but Karl, who is OSAS, did not say B is the answer for the fearful 'believer'. His answer is to think 'OSAS'. Which is incredibly dangerous if you don't even stop to FIRST consider if you are even born again to begin with. His counsel for any church who shudders in fear of the coming Judgment is by far a very dangerous and misguided solution.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I know you might not care for my observation of fact but the NON-OSAS position demands perpetual doubt to be attached to faith.

Good grief, smaller, I'm non-OSAS and I have ZERO doubt attached to my faith. Why? BECAUSE I HAVE FAITH. Think about it.

 

[smaller]

OSAS is a doctrine that has resulted from the church's 'do nothing' grace thinking. The fear being that if you have to 'do' anything to be saved, including continuing in your faith, you are guilty of trying to earn your own salvation. How ridiculous.

And by the same token believers can do everything and will still remain sinners.

 

[Jesse]

I know you might not care for my observation of fact but the NON-OSAS position demands perpetual doubt to be attached to faith.

This is just not true. I imagine I have much more faith than the average mainstream Christian, for my age, in fact I know this to be true.

I just have a healthy does of reverance (fear) towards God -the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom!

I see it as an insecurity for those who idolize salvation and not the Lord.

 

[smaller]

Good grief, smaller, I'm non-OSAS and I have ZERO doubt attached to my faith. Why? BECAUSE I HAVE FAITH. Think about it.

Pretty funny. The only faith you have is then secure in the here and now and maybe not at any given point in time.

So we may more accurately term your position as OSAS for now?

 

[Jesse]

And by the same token believers can do everything and will still remain sinners.

We are not sinners, we are Saints. :wink

We WERE sinners, and are being saved by grace.

 

[smaller]

This is just not true. I imagine I have much more faith than the average mainstream Christian, for my age, in fact I know this to be true.

The best any of you in the non-OSAS have is a maybe, maybe not. It's the same position that much of the freewill camps including most of catholic orthodoxy has.

You don't really know or if you do know you only know for sure at any given moment.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

And by the same token believers can do everything and will still remain sinners.

Don't take false comfort in that as so many do and continue on in their unchanged 'saved' condition.

If you are not making progress in your faith and growing away from your sin--which you will surely have to the very end--you have no basis for confidence that you will pass safely through the coming Judgment. NONE. THis is what shuddering fearful 'believers' need to hear, not 'OSAS'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

We are not sinners, we are Saints. :wink

We WERE sinners, and are being saved by grace.

So true, but I think he's referring to the fact that we will continue to sin until the day of our death.

 

[smaller]

We are not sinners,

Yeah, well I prefer to be a little more truthful before my Maker.

THIS is what we all factually carry before God in this present life IF we come before Him TRUTHFULLY:

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

 

[smaller]

Don't take false comfort in that as so many do and continue on in their unchanged 'saved' condition.

No believers saved condition or any pile of works make them sinless.

And many more like to lie about this particular fact or be really good ACTORS to cover up this fact as well.

God is neither fooled nor mocked by any sinner, particularly of the good acting believers who think their pile of sin is better than the other guys.

 

[Doulos Iesou]

Correct me if I missed it, but Karl, who is OSAS, did not say B is the answer for the fearful 'believer'. His answer is to think 'OSAS'. Which is incredibly dangerous if you don't even stop to FIRST consider if you are even born again to begin with. His counsel for any church who shudders in fear of the coming Judgment is by far a very dangerous and misguided solution.

Hence I noted that it was someone who knew their theology.

 

[Christ_empowered]

I've seen how OSAS helps comfort complacent believers who are no different from the rest of the world in terms of outlook and lifestyle. I don't buy it..."work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

 

[Jesse]

The best any of you in the non-OSAS have is a maybe, maybe not. It's the same position that much of the freewill camps including most of catholic orthodoxy has.

You don't really know or if you do know you only know for sure at any given moment.

LOL

You really do not comprehend this I can tell.

When we enter Christ, we are beginning our eternal life, after all we are eternal beings. We now do not focus on "US" and "our salvation" because it's NOT ABOUT YOU, it's all about Him.

The gospel is not even about salvation - it's about how God entered our time and space to set up His Kingdom (do you see how this has nothing to do with you or me?), and because of what He did, there is the offer of salvation.

Christians get too caught up with "their salvation" - they make it all about THEM. Do you see that God is doing all He is doing to glorify Himself? For His great pleasure?

This is not a moment by moment eternal life - this is a way of life, a lifestyle.

When we start talking about this issue, the osas crowd becomes very agitated, extremely insecure, because what they hold onto is their salvation and not the Lord. It says to "cling to the Lord" NOT your salvation.

It's a silly debate really because we should be asking ourselves what can we do for the Lord, what has God prepared for me to do? Why am I not doing it? Is my life completely about the Lord? Etc.

 

[smaller]

LOL

You really do not comprehend this I can tell.

I just appreciate the IRONY of all of you non-OSAS claiming yourself solidly saved.

 

[reba]

Now there're three of you. Where's that coffee?

 

[Kathi]

Karl said this to me in another thread:

...so what I see you both saying, please don't get angry, is you are eternally secure, but maybe not others, so you personally believe in OSAS for yourselves, but not for others.

The reason I asked the question is because I was saved in a denomination that believed that after a person was born again they could lose their salvation, ...again, I don't want to debate doctrine, ...I want to talk about the results of that doctrine, as a young dumb and stupid baby child of God I made all of the common newbie mistakes, pastor worship, denomination worship, we were the only ones that had the truth, all during my two and a half years there, ...I never had any assurance of my salvation, I also was in charge of the youth and most of them were scared and without assurance of their salvation, ...why, because we knew and understood the undescribable horror and terror and finality of the Lake of Fire, we never had peace, we had occasional moments when we were distracted and didn't think about it, but no real peace like the Word promises,

...now I hope you understand the reason I asked my question and I also hope you understand my saying you don'tpersonally believe you can lose your salvation, so may I humbly and in the love of Christ ask you to please reconsider talking about a person losing their salvation if you don't believe it personally for yourselves, it can do great damage and destroy someone's faith.

Instead of salving people's conscience about the assurance of a salvation they may or may not really have, shouldn't we instead be teaching them what the Bible says on how to 'make your calling and election sure' to know if you are really saved or not?

Do you think teaching OSAS is how you comfort someone in a salvation they may or may not have? Or do you think we should teach people how to know they are really saved and have them find the comfort and assurance of their salvation that way?

OSAS is not a salvation issue.What would be dangerous is not teaching that Jesus Christ is the risen Son of God.

 

[Kathi]

My daughter used to be a barista and a guy worked with them who could do this kind of stuff.Almost too cute to drink.

 

[Malachi]

Do you think teaching OSAS is how you comfort someone in a salvation they may or may not have? Or do you think we should teach people how to know they are really saved and have them find the comfort and assurance of their salvation that way?

All this discusssion about OSAS and No-OSAS indicates a focus on the sinner rather than the Savior. That is a very serious deficiency. God wants every sinner to repent and be converted, to repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. Therefore if the Gospel has been clearly presented, and a sinner has received Christ as his/her Lord and Savior, that is the end of the matter. That also means that this person has been born again, born of God, born from above. That New Birth is irreversible.

And all this must be seen in Scripture and simply believed, because "The just shall live by faith". When people are genuinely saved, and immediately baptized according to the NT, they will themselves experience the power of the Holy Spirit, but they will be "babes in Christ" and will need discipling. They will have the internal witness of the Holy Spirit. They will have a love for Christian brothers and sisters. This is all God's work.

All Christians need to be crystal clear in their minds that salvation is purely and entirely a work of God and the gift of God, and entirely because of His infinite love, grace and mercy (Tit 3:4-7).

Indeed salvation is JESUS Himself since His name Yeshua means GOD OUR SALVATION. That is where the focus should be, and that will give every sinner the absolute assurance that they have been saved eternally, and are kept by the power of God.

What we see happening is that the focus has been placed on the poor sinner and whether he can keep himself saved. That is because the Gospel is not being preached in all its fullness and Scripture is not being sufficiently presented. Let's not forget that humanism has entered into the churches.

 

[Jesse]

I just appreciate the IRONY of all of you non-OSAS claiming yourself solidly saved.

A person is BEING saved, NO ONE is solidly saved right now.