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Is It Possible to be Free of Sin?

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Heb 4:10 for anyone who enters God's rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his.
This means ceasing from striving to be perfect, IMO. It's a faith that Christ's work is enough to save me completely, both justified and sanctified. It means I believe God is doing the work necessary to complete my journey to glorification. If I actually see it happening (albeit sometimes slower than I would like), why should I shun such an experience? Why should I not praise the Lord I worship to say that He is doing all the work necessary to save me and ready me for glorification?
Hello friend.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Are you reformed in your theology? I get the idea you are monergist, who believes God is the one that does justification AND sanctification.

2. I would contend that Hebrews 4:10 is written to Hebrew believers and is encouraging them to enter rest from their works, and in the context of Jewish believers I believe these to be works of the law, the mosaic law. NOT striving to be perfect. Jesus says to be perfect like your heavenly Father is perfect, that leads me to believe striving is perfect. Peter says be ye Holy like your heavenly Father is Holy! That also confirms we should strive!

Jesus says STRIVE to enter the narrow gate. Jesus says put your hand to the plow and dont look back. Many things like this in the Bible, these are just a few that came to my mind :)
 
In another thread Not_Now.Soon asked:

Can anyone really be free of sin? And if so how?

It seems to me that Jesus raised the bar on sinning...
He didn't make it easier, He made it more difficult.
He said that not only our actions could be sin...but our very desire to sin, was sinful.
Mathew 5:21 and on....

Is it possible to keep from sinning?
If so, how.
If not, why not.

What if we have difficulty with a particular sin?
Are we lost forever?
Talking to people who reject our goal in Christ it struck me what we are saying.
Evil is destructive of others and ourselves. It is those actions you know that cause
problems, where if you could you would withdraw and undo. It is always serious,
and it is something that in Christ grieves us, deeply.

Yes we have struggles and feel the pulls one way or another.
Often I am caught between different reactions. And after a tussel I learn the
will of God and love in the situation.

I then think of Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. He was discussing with Moses
and Elijah what is happenning. I think this is the nature of who we are, it is always
a balance a discussion, a sharing and a desire to reach a goal.

We think of sin as a series of actions, rather than righteousness are the actions
that spring for love and the taking of possibilities within the options of the possible.
So we will always have sin possible there, but if we learn how to dwell, share, and
abide in Him and with our brothers and sisters, we can continue on the way.

What you call it is irrelevant, it is His way. And in this I rejoice the more I find it, Amen.
 
Talking to people who reject our goal in Christ it struck me what we are saying.
Evil is destructive of others and ourselves. It is those actions you know that cause
problems, where if you could you would withdraw and undo. It is always serious,
and it is something that in Christ grieves us, deeply.

Yes we have struggles and feel the pulls one way or another.
Often I am caught between different reactions. And after a tussel I learn the
will of God and love in the situation.

I then think of Jesus on the mount of transfiguration. He was discussing with Moses
and Elijah what is happenning. I think this is the nature of who we are, it is always
a balance a discussion, a sharing and a desire to reach a goal.

We think of sin as a series of actions, rather than righteousness are the actions
that spring for love and the taking of possibilities within the options of the possible.

So we will always have sin possible there, but if we learn how to dwell, share, and
abide in Him and with our brothers and sisters, we can continue on the way.

What you call it is irrelevant, it is His way. And in this I rejoice the more I find it, Amen.
What would you say IS the goal in Christ?
Is it to be transformed an become more like Him as we walk with Him or is it more?

Maybe that's enough?
Maybe we're supposed to be sharing with others...
sharing what? Our personal experience? What God has done for us? Why we're happy to have Him in our lives?

Could you speak more to what I've highlighted above in blue?

Righteousness just means being right with God...
Is this more important than thinking about individual sins...
Or is sinning less exactly what makes us be righteous?
 
What would you say IS the goal in Christ?
Is it to be transformed an become more like Him as we walk with Him or is it more?

Maybe that's enough?
Maybe we're supposed to be sharing with others...
sharing what? Our personal experience? What God has done for us? Why we're happy to have Him in our lives?

Could you speak more to what I've highlighted above in blue?

Righteousness just means being right with God...
Is this more important than thinking about individual sins...
Or is sinning less exactly what makes us be righteous?
Well we know that: 1 john 5:7 says "....he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. "
 
What would you say IS the goal in Christ?
Is it to be transformed an become more like Him as we walk with Him or is it more?

Maybe that's enough?
Maybe we're supposed to be sharing with others...
sharing what? Our personal experience? What God has done for us? Why we're happy to have Him in our lives?

Could you speak more to what I've highlighted above in blue?

Righteousness just means being right with God...
Is this more important than thinking about individual sins...
Or is sinning less exactly what makes us be righteous?
We are called to do good works.
A work is an action that is good.
Good works are expressions of love.
So sharing here is one, empathy, helping others see things,
spreading Gods word, encouraging, praising the Lord, sharing
His heart etc. It goes on infinitely.

When you talk about a relationship between a parent and a child
do you define it by rules set by the parent towards the child, or
an interplay at all levels between the two. The parent puts boundaries,
but they are just to keep things safe. No one describes the experience
by the boundaries but by the interplay, joy, challenge etc.

How is it Gods people are so unimaginative yet will know how to
do this with Kids. lol :lol

My kids keep on telling me not everything is funny. Now this is true,
but loving and sharing is the best thing life gives us, Praise the Lord.
How do we imagine heaven, a boring long car ride lol
 
Sanctification I believe is synergistic.
sanctifying is being set apart made holy 3. stages 1. positional-saved placed in the body 2. progressive ..W IP GROWTH he is still working on us. 3 ultimate we made it to heaven we have our glorified body---------no sin ..it is finished :amen we are fellow workers -wip
 
sanctifying is being set apart made holy 3. stages 1. positional-saved placed in the body 2. progressive ..W IP GROWTH he is still working on us. 3 ultimate we made it to heaven we have our glorified body---------no sin ..it is finished :amen we are fellow workers -wip
What's wip??
 
We are called to do good works.
A work is an action that is good.
Good works are expressions of love.
So sharing here is one, empathy, helping others see things,
spreading Gods word, encouraging, praising the Lord, sharing
His heart etc. It goes on infinitely.

When you talk about a relationship between a parent and a child
do you define it by rules set by the parent towards the child, or
an interplay at all levels between the two. The parent puts boundaries,
but they are just to keep things safe. No one describes the experience
by the boundaries but by the interplay, joy, challenge etc.

How is it Gods people are so unimaginative yet will know how to
do this with Kids. lol :lol

My kids keep on telling me not everything is funny. Now this is true,
but loving and sharing is the best thing life gives us, Praise the Lord.
How do we imagine heaven, a boring long car ride lol
Great point.
About the parents and children, I mean.
Good analogy.

The only time I see persons using the analogy of parents/children is to say that we cannot become "unsons"...which is not true anyway because children are disinherited all the time.

I like to say that it takes two to tango...
One can dance alone but it seems unfinished and not complete. With two it's more fun and more complete and more steps can be achieved.

Beautiful avatar, BTW.
Worship of God....
The Son/sun......
Our light.
 
Well we know that: 1 john 5:7 says "....he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous. "
Agreed.
And doing what is righteous just means doing what is right.

On our own we cannot be righteous....
doing what is right without God is meaningless.
We cannot work our way to salvation.

After we know God we are deemed righteous by the belief in His Son
Romans 3:22

Jesus' righteousness is imputed to us since we will fail at times.....but we are still considered righteous as long as we do not all into the sin of death,,,,,unbelief in the Holy Spirit, which is blasphemous.

After we know God,,,the works we do FOR HIM, are righteous works....they are considered right by God who gives us the desire and the will to do them...or, IOW, the Holy Spirit dwelling in us HELPS US to do what is right.

1 John 5, which you posted, does speak to the above:

1 John 5:1-4
1Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.
2By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments.
3For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome.
4For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.
 
Great point.
About the parents and children, I mean.
Good analogy.

The only time I see persons using the analogy of parents/children is to say that we cannot become "unsons"...which is not true anyway because children are disinherited all the time.

I like to say that it takes two to tango...
One can dance alone but it seems unfinished and not complete. With two it's more fun and more complete and more steps can be achieved.

Beautiful avatar, BTW.
Worship of God....
The Son/sun......
Our light.
Thanks. On knees we bend because He is worthy, victorious and
all we have flows from Him, humble servants of the King who in
turn serves us as His ministry and example again.

I was speaking to a christian brother today who talked about the
quote, Wives obey your husbands, followed by husbands love your
wives as Christ loved the church, which means serve and support the
needs of your wife. There is no winner, there is just cooperation and
a loving exchange.
 
I'm familiar with the verses you cite, so I won't repeat them. There are several presumptions you can take:
  1. Assume that "all" in the verses means every person who ever lived or will live. Since it doesn't actually say that, we have to take the meaning from the context of scripture, both the immediate context and wider context, keeping in mind that scripture is not contradictory, and Paul does not contradict himself, if we believe that his writings are inspired of God.
  2. Assume that "all" has a cultural context, that since the primary receiver of the communication are Jews, the writer is indicating that all nations are included in God's plan of salvation. So then, the term "all" must have a scope to it that should be obtained from the usage of the word.
I agree with number one.
All means every person that ever lived or will live in the future.


Since the scope of "all" is not clear in the immediate context, the definition is to be deemed obscure. So then we must turn to clear statements of scripture that indicate the scope of those who are actually saved, which is a subset of all people everywhere. Such statements as in Rev., that Christ purchased "men from every tribe, tongue, and nation" and other such clear statements indicating that God does not intend to save every person. Ref. Rom. 9:14-18.

Since you don't post any scripture, I don't really know what I'm responding to......However, there are many ways to describe who or what God meant....the words are available in every language....If the translator used ALL, it must surely mean ALL,,,unless you could show otherwise, with scripture.

God intends to save every person.....
But not every person WANTS to be saved....
and since we have free will God will not force us to be saved.

Mathew 10:14-15 Receiving the Apostles was an act of free will....

14“Whoever does not receive you, nor heed your words, as you go out of that house or that city, shake the dust off your feet.
15“Truly I say to you, it will be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah in the day of judgment than for that city.


Romans 9:14-18, as I've explained already twice, is NOT speaking of individual salvation but of God's corporate salvation of the Jews....saving the nation of ISRAEL.
God will have mercy upon whom He has mercy according to THEIR acceptance of HIS conditions..
The potter and the clay is referring to Jeremiah 18...The Potter and the clay. If you read that, to which Romans is referring, you'll find that it's the CLAY that does not want to be molded...the story is not about the POTTER but about the CLAY.

You really should study this.

There are many links regarding this...
here's one:


3. A third option is to assume that God's desire to save people is not necessarily the same as a plan on who He chooses to save. Obviously, if we are to regard scripture as meeting the law of non-contradiction, there must be a resolution between Rom. 9:18 and 1 Tim. 2:4, since these statements cannot be contradictory.

And the same with John 12:32. But we know that some people are drawn to the cross, and others are repelled by it. If God loved everyone the same, then everyone would be His child, and we know that simply isn't true.

The resolutiona is what I've told you and I posted a link to it.
Romans 9-11 should have been a separate book. And who knows that at one time it wasn't....

The bible does not contradict itself...




It's not a matter of what I prefer to believe, or anyone else prefers to believe. It's a matter of what the Bible clearly states. I answered this question previously.

Some things the bible does NOT state clearly and takes some studying. You DO have to decide if God wishes to save all men or if He wishes to save just some men, at His own choosing. The bible teaches that God wishes to save everyone....but it does have to be accepted.


This is a false conclusion. Since the Bible says clearly that God chooses to save some, and the rest are condemned, and clearly states that God is love, then God is a God of love. Condemning those who don't obey the gospel is God's prerogative, as an expression of His ultimate justice. Everything God does is righteous, as was the primary lesson of Job.

IF God sends people to hell, He is NOT:
A loving God
A merciful God
A just God


You can believe He is all you want to and still call Him love and just,,,,but anyone who sends people to hell through no fault of their own DOES NOT KNOW LOVE.

click to expand
1 of 2
 
2 of 2

What people fail to understand is that since everyone comes into the world steeped in sin, God chooses to save some of them according to His grace through the preaching of the gospel. It means that unless God actually decides to save some people, and does it without their prior knowledge, that no one would be saved, because no one would choose to submit to God. Everyone comes into the world in a natural state, in which they are "by nature children of wrath." As spiritual rebels against God, and deep inner haters of His law, and loathers of His will, there is not one person who would correctly assess the gospel and submit. "There is no one who does good, there is not even one."

Why would a loving God save just some?
He would save everyone.
And since it's HIM that saves....why not just save who He wants.....why did Jesus have to go to the cross then?

What good did it accomplish if God chooses who will be saved?

I'm not denying that God may, and probably does, choose to save some at a very young age, and such people perhaps do not experience the corruption that most of us experience before we are redeemed. Perhaps the apostle Paul would concur. But in that passage in Rom. 3:10-18 he is teaching the doctrine of total depravity, that every person if left to themselves would not choose to do anything pleasing to God with their fleshly "free will."

Total depravity is not shown in the bible.
The sin nature is shown in the bible.
God has always revealed Himself to man and man has always had the free will to reply to God's revelation.

Romans 1:19-20

Total depravity does not mean that a person is actually as bad as he could possibly be. It is not speaking of natural and relative goodness that we normally compare ourselves with others. It is speaking of spiritual depravity. It speaks of a separation between God and people on a deep spiritual level. God is not merely displeased with mankind. People are under His wrath. Nowhere in scripture does it say that God hates the sin but loves the sinner. It clearly states "whoever does not believe, the wrath of God remains on him." It clearly states that God hates the person who plans evil.

Yes. I know what it means...
I don't agree with it.
God DOES NOT do everything for us.

I am NOT a puppet in His hands....

So then, the idea of total depravity means spiritual inability to please God by believing in Him. It's an inability to believe. According to Heb. 11 and other places, faith is what pleases God, and is foundational to relationship with Him. And since people in their natural state are unable to believe, God must give them that ability, and He does it by supernatural regeneration of spirit. Total depravity means that when left in their natural condition (as sinners, not born again), people don't want to believe. They suppress the truth (of the gospel) in the unrighteousness of their soul. They reason that the gospel is a fool's errand or nothing but a religious myth.

You keep repeating the same ideas and do no post scripture.
Where does it say that first we are changed and THEN we are saved? You're saying regeneration comes before faith.
Post a scripture that claims this.

I've posted John 3:16 and Acts 16:30-31 but you never answer to them.



Like I said, we are responders to God, and responders to His grace. God initiates it, we respond. The puppet idea is a straw man, because it doesn't take into consideration the fact of regeneration and the changing of the heart's disposition. Therefore, the term is an unjust comparison in this context.

It's not a straw man...it's the truth.
First we are born again, and then the heart changes.
How does it change first? Do we have the Holy Spirit while we're still lost? Jesus told those to wait for the Holy Spirit that were ALREADY saved....Acts 1:8

Of course we should love God back, since He loved us first. "We love because He first loved us." And this "us" in this context of 1 John is the church, not every person who ever lived. And "free" doesn't mean that we generate love in our heart out of nothing. Our love for God is based on God's special love for us, and the gift of knowledge, illumination, understanding, faith, wisdom, hope, vision, and all that is associated with spiritual regeneration. All included in the free gift of God's grace.

The above is true.

Rev. 3:20 is speaking to the church, not the world. It is speaking to Christians whose passion for loving God has died away, and they are needing a revival of love for Christ and each other. That verse spoken to an unbeliever will do nothing but condemn. I'm not saying that the verse cannot be used in an evangelistic message, because it does speak of hope in being reconciled to Christ and being in intimate relationship with Him. I'm simply saying that if God is not already working in a person's heart to understand and believe the spiritual nature of the call, the verse will do nothing for them.

That's it for now.
TD:)

So it's not true that Jesus stands at the door of our heart and knocks? So we should't be witness since Jesus told only The Apostles to do thin in the Great Commission.
[/QUOTE]
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As with many things within the faith, this has a paradox.

We are not sinless on this side of heaven. 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth ins not in us.

But, we now have the Holy Spirit in us.....guiding us unto holiness and not the other direction. 2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with every-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
 
As with many things within the faith, this has a paradox.

We are not sinless on this side of heaven. 1 John 1:8 If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth ins not in us.

But, we now have the Holy Spirit in us.....guiding us unto holiness and not the other direction. 2 Corinthians 3:18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with every-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Are we sinless or not? Only God knows as Paul says. He did not even judge himself
because reaching the goal is less important than aiming for it. Why? Because each second, each minute, each hour, each day, each week, each month, each year is another
opportunity to express Gods love through our lives or fails, and until we have reached
the end we do not know the outcome except we walk in faith today.
 
Hello friend.

I have a couple of questions:

1. Are you reformed in your theology? I get the idea you are monergist, who believes God is the one that does justification AND sanctification.

2. I would contend that Hebrews 4:10 is written to Hebrew believers and is encouraging them to enter rest from their works, and in the context of Jewish believers I believe these to be works of the law, the mosaic law. NOT striving to be perfect. Jesus says to be perfect like your heavenly Father is perfect, that leads me to believe striving is perfect. Peter says be ye Holy like your heavenly Father is Holy! That also confirms we should strive!

Jesus says STRIVE to enter the narrow gate. Jesus says put your hand to the plow and dont look back. Many things like this in the Bible, these are just a few that came to my mind :)
Some people strive with a lot of mental and physical effort to attain to some ideal state. I suppose most of us do that to some extent at one time or another. But Hebrews says to strive to enter rest. Ok, so it was written to Jewish believers, but you don't think it applies to all of us? You don't think that Sabbath rest is an experience for every believer?

The writer of Heb. is not trying to get Jewish believers to stop performing ceremonial rites. That is not what it's about. So what is the essence and foundation of the Mosaic law? Is it not the "ten commandments"? Is it not what Moses called "the ten statements of the covenant"? Is it not the essence of morality and the Judeo-Christian ethic?

If one is to cease from their labor, then doesn't it beg the questions: 1. what is the labor that is to be ceased? and 2. what is the labor for?

I contend that the experience of Sabbath rest that Heb. is talking about involves several things that work together as a whole:
  1. assurance of salvation
  2. faith that God is working by the Spirit
  3. trust that God's promise to cleanse the heart is a done deal
  4. Jesus is not only forgiver of sin, but deliverer
  5. assurance that the work of Christ is sufficient to save completely

When these things are realized, there is no more work to be done, and no more striving to obtain salvation or to keep it or maintain it. There remains only the faith that God is doing the work of salvation, indeed has done the work of salvation, and my working toward it has ceased. The only striving I do, then, is striving to believe the truth of it.

Faith is foundational to relationship with God. This is my point. When I decided to trust God's promise to do that work necessary to make me Christlike, I entered that rest, which is also the rest Jesus promised to those who drink of Him. As an analogy, it is very much like relaxing from the stress of trying to reach an unreachable goal, and letting God handle it.

Of course, it requires knowledge of Christ and His work. That's what Bible study is for.
TD:)
 
I agree with number one.
All means every person that ever lived or will live in the future.
On what basis do you interpret the scope of "all" in that way?

Since you don't post any scripture, I don't really know what I'm responding to......However, there are many ways to describe who or what God meant....the words are available in every language....If the translator used ALL, it must surely mean ALL,,,unless you could show otherwise, with scripture.
I said I was using the scriptures you quoted.
A pastor once said "all means all, and that's all all means." It was a statement he learned from seminary. Essentially, that statement means that you cannot assume "all" means what you think it means. There are plenty of places in the Bible where "all" doesn't mean every person in the world. If you assume it does, without consideration of the context of scripture, then your interpretation is in error.

God intends to save every person.....
But not every person WANTS to be saved....
and since we have free will God will not force us to be saved.
Mathew 10:14-15 Receiving the Apostles was an act of free will....

In order to avoid semantical problems I think I need you to define what you mean by "free will" here. Since the scripture clearly states that the will of man is in bondage to the devil, I need to get an idea of what you think is free about it. Can you please give me the definition of your usage?

You claim that God intends to save every person, but I read in the Bible that He doesn't.
Rom. 9:22-24 says "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?"

Can't you see that Paul is acknowledging that God intends to have mercy on some people and harden others? If God intends to save everyone, then everyone will be saved, because He is able to do it. If that's the case, let's all concede to universalism.

You claim that God will not force us to be saved. Yet, the way I read the NT, the grace of God is a force to be reckoned with. The power of the Holy Spirit to convict and regenerate is a force to be reckoned with. God's ability to turn the heart of kings and make them do what He wants is the same ability to turn our individual hearts and change our attitude toward Him.

The fact is, that God doesn't have to force His children to be saved by obeying the gospel. The children of God want to be saved, and have the wisdom to obey the gospel, because they are already regenerated. They already have the spiritual understanding to do so, and they want to be saved. Therefore God doesn't have to "force" them to be saved, since they are already born again. Their faith and obedience proves it so.

Romans 9:14-18, as I've explained already twice, is NOT speaking of individual salvation but of God's corporate salvation of the Jews....saving the nation of ISRAEL.
God will have mercy upon whom He has mercy according to THEIR acceptance of HIS conditions..
The potter and the clay is referring to Jeremiah 18...The Potter and the clay. If you read that, to which Romans is referring, you'll find that it's the CLAY that does not want to be molded...the story is not about the POTTER but about the CLAY.

Rom. 9:24 "Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles."
Therefore your idea that :14-18 only refers to Jews is in error.

Rom. 9:16 "So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. "
Therefore your idea that "it" (salvation) depends on the individual's acceptance of God's conditions is also in error, in this context.

Obviously from the natural point of view (call it "common sense"), it seems like the gospel calls us to meet God's conditions in order to be saved. Yet no conditions are met until one has the faith to believe in God's working, as Jesus told Nicodemus: "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

IF God sends people to hell, He is NOT:
A loving God
A merciful God
A just God

You can believe He is all you want to and still call Him love and just,,,,but anyone who sends people to hell through no fault of their own DOES NOT KNOW LOVE.
Through no fault of their own?? The scripture declares that God will judge everyone according to their deeds, and whoever is not found in the book of life is cast in the lake of fire. So then:

1. God blames people for the sin they commit, because they commit sin according to their own free will (which is not free, by the way, since it is in bondage to Satan). But it is their free will from their own point of view, since they freely choose to sin against God because they want to use it for pleasure. Therefore God is just.

2. God is merciful despite the fact that He doesn't have mercy on everyone the same. In fact, mercy is a special case that supercedes justice. If God is unjust about anything at all, it is about mercy bestowed on some. About substituting Christ's suffering for our own just punishment. Therefore "God is just, and the justifier of the one who has faith in Christ." If you impose a law on God that He has to have the same mercy toward everyone, then you turn mercy into justice, and mercy is not mercy anymore.

3. The Bible declares in many places that God loves those who love Him. It also says (we might call it a worst-case scenario) that God HATES a person who thinks up evil on his bed. Therefore, the Bible saying that "God is love" does not negate the fact that God is going to justly condemn many people for their sins. Yet He is certainly love toward those He has chosen to have mercy toward, since because of Christ's intercession He will not hold us culpable for the sins we committed.

Incidentally, the Bible doesn't say that God condemns people for not believing in Christ. What it actually says is that "anyone who does not believe is condemned already..." which is an identification of those who are condemned. But they will be judged justly for the sins they commit in this life.

So, God will hold the sinner culpable for the sins he commits. Everyone is given the opportunity to obey God, but because man is totally depraved spiritually (i.e. not connected to God and not hearing His voice, and not being guided by His Spirit), no one chooses ON HIS OWN to obey the gospel. It takes a divine act to get someone to obey the gospel.
TD:)
 
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