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Is Masonry A Sweet Little Kitty Or Dragon?

Some may not realize it, but apparently Continental Masonry (continent of Europe) branched off from British Masonry which had only 3 degrees (per British Mason John Robison's 1790's work 'Proofs Of A Conspiracy' exposing the Bavarian Illuminati conspiracy in his era).

Robison exposed that it was the Illuminati order in Bavaria and other occultists that had infiltrated the high membership roles of Continental Masonry, and had added many degrees to the original form that originated from Britain. He basically was saying that groups within the Illuminati had taken over the Masonic lodges on the European continent, while British Masonry in the Isles stayed intact.

I think a reading of the U.S. founding father's own writings in some of their disagreements with each other reveals they had a conflict in their social philosophies which depended upon which type of lodge they were being influenced by, some by the lodges in Britain (British Masonry - 3 degrees), and others by lodges in France and Germany (Continental Masonry- many degrees).

Yet the whole matter does not stop with the fraternity of Masons; there are many more related fraternities, which some masons are members of several. In the early 1900's there was an organization headquatered in France abbr. F.U.D.O.S.I, and stood for Universal Federation of Initiatic Orders. It contained something like 12 different initiatic orders like Masonry; like the Rosicrucian order, the Disciples of Pythagoras, Hermes Trismegithus order (? spelling), some orders that involved the practice of Alchemy which I can't recall. I saw a picture of each order's head officer, and another picture of a signed document by each one and the name of the order in a publication put out by the Rosicrucian Order AMORC which is headquarted in San Jose, CA. It was to show its members the authenticity of the Rosicrucian Order in San Jose being officially connected to the original Roscrucian order in old Europe, and with the Universal Federation of initiatic orders, or what they call the "Grand Orient" of France.

I think there's a book called 'Conspiracy Against God and Man' by a Catholic done back in the 1970's who went to France and researched a lot of those connections, and had help from a French librarian. It's a very well documented work, not a fantasy work.

So the matter of initiatic fraternities is not just about Masonry, but many other type orders which specialize in different areas of the ancient mystery school teachings. And with all of them joined to a federation, that reveals their kind of working is on a much grander scale than one might think. Just because we rarely ever hear or read about them in news or history works should also raise a big question.
 
Since the days of Babylon secret societies have played a major role in the making of history, but yet seldom ever read in the history books. Certainly not taught in public schools. We [they] don't want people to be to smart.
 
mdo757 said:
Tubalcain said:
Geo said:
Let's have a closer look at what they really mean by that.

When doing research only the executive branch has info that reveals the actual intention of an institution:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/free11.html

The link does not address what you assert. The bulk of the slurs in the link were debunked when the Leo Taxil hoax was revealed. The rest are just made up.
I have the Freemason book, and the Morals and Dogma of the Masons. Perhaps you should state what parts were a lie.

Which freemason book? There is no "Morals and Dogma of the Masons". Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma is an esoteric work, the assertions within are Pike's alone. Freemasonry, unlike fundamentalism, honors the individual human mind, and accepts the freedom of thought of its members. That is why it is so threatening to those who utilize religion as means of power and control over others.
 
Tubalcain said:
Which freemason book? There is no "Morals and Dogma of the Masons". Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma is an esoteric work, the assertions within are Pike's alone. Freemasonry, unlike fundamentalism, honors the individual human mind, and accepts the freedom of thought of its members. That is why it is so threatening to those who utilize religion as means of power and control over others.
I have those books packed away for now. The one that says Freemason on it is a big thick black book with gold print on the cover. The Morals and Dogma is written by Albert Pike. There are a lot of Masons that would agree with Pike, depending on what order they belong to.
 
tubalcain are you a mason, with that alias i'm assuming yes. is that correct?

what does jeshbaalon bring to mind?
 
mdo757 said:
Tubalcain said:
Which freemason book? There is no "Morals and Dogma of the Masons". Albert Pike's Morals and Dogma is an esoteric work, the assertions within are Pike's alone. Freemasonry, unlike fundamentalism, honors the individual human mind, and accepts the freedom of thought of its members. That is why it is so threatening to those who utilize religion as means of power and control over others.
I have those books packed away for now. The one that says Freemason on it is a big thick black book with gold print on the cover. The Morals and Dogma is written by Albert Pike. There are a lot of Masons that would agree with Pike, depending on what order they belong to.

That may be, but most masons haven't read it. It has no authority in and of itself. It's Pike's opinions and his alone.
 
jasoncran said:
tubalcain are you a mason, with that alias i'm assuming yes. is that correct?

what does jeshbaalon bring to mind?

I am but I don't know of "jeshbaalon".
 
jesh=yahweh, baal= baal the canaanite god, on= the all seing eye. It is said in some cermeonies after on reaches past the blue lodge level. What degree are you? I know that you most likely use the secret handshake
 
Tissue said:
To answer your riddle,

Humanity often needs a person or a group to denigrate and exile so as to create within themselves and others community. Some Christians appear to need conspiracy theories, or paranoia.

I see nothing wrong with Freemasonry.


Correct me if I am wrong but conspiring against Jesus Christ and the Christian people went on an awful lot in the Bible. Why do you believe that things are different today?
 
Tissue said:
mdo757 said:
So what is the history of the Jesuits, Masons, Free Masons, Illuminati, and any other such societies? You say they are harmless little kitties. :chin


The Society of Jesus (Jesuits) is a Catholic religious order, and is certainly not evil.


Then why have they waged so many wars and caused so much bloodshed? That seems pretty evil to me.
 
Tubalcain said:
Masons and Jesuits may be fearsome dragons, but those claiming they are are certainly no different.


So then you know their deeds. They are full of lies and murders. Is that what you are telling me? So you are telling that anyone who points out the evil that has been wrought by the Jesuits is also guilty of those evils. Show me the scriptures that say so.


This is well documented history and not just flights of fancy such as the one that you seem to be taking.
 
The documentation about subversive movements within Continental Masonry (European Masonry) is already out there, even written by a Mason, John Robison in the 1790's (Proofs Of A Conspiracy). So any Mason today claiming all this as some conspiracy theory have little credibility. The Abbe Barruel's work also stands as another source of documented fact on the operations of the Bavarian Illuminati order's influence within French Masonry during the French Revolution era. And I know as a fact that the highest degrees in the Rosicrucian Order AMORC headquartered in San Jose, CA, are Illuminati degrees.

The documentation by both Robison and Barruel reveals a division within the Bavarian Illuminati membership roles, most members never reaching the higher degrees. That means the lower members have little clue as to what the higher level members are about.

The captured documents of the Bavarian Illuminati order in Germany stated clearly its purposes were to overthrow all governments, the Christian Church, and the Christian monarchs. Because that was revealed, the order was banned in 18th century Europe. Problem with that is, with a secret society where the members can remain secret, how can a government completely ban a movement like that when it can't be sure who or where its members are?

In the order's captured papers, letters written between high members were discovered, even some by Weishaupt the founder. In one letter he bragged how his high degree on 'true Christianity' had duped a certain Christian divine so well, that the deceived member who was a Church leader was thanking him for revealing the true secrets of Christianity. Weishaupt jokingly said he never thought he'd be the founder of a new religion.

The modus operandi of the order was to creep into the lodges of Masonry and take over its high levels by showing they had possession of a more ancient and truer set of degrees than what Masonry already had. And thus the later higher degrees of Masonry, including the Scottish Rite degree which was brought in by Weishaupt. Robison outlayed the structure of the degrees as did Barruel in their works.

But that structure was just the order's inner school. It also had a plan for an outward structure working in public, like seeking to gain positions in civil and government authority, within positions of the Church, starting up "reading societies" and control of publishing books. Even pushing pornography was in their structure of overthrowing the morals of the peoples, all to break down society in order to gain control. Their plan also included capturing posts in education so as to influence people away from religious thinking. Christianity was one of Weishaupt's main enemies. When reading their structure for overthrow, it reads much like the tenets of early Communist strategy.
 
ronniechoate34 said:
Tissue said:
To answer your riddle,

Humanity often needs a person or a group to denigrate and exile so as to create within themselves and others community. Some Christians appear to need conspiracy theories, or paranoia.

I see nothing wrong with Freemasonry.

Correct me if I am wrong but conspiring against Jesus Christ and the Christian people went on an awful lot in the Bible. Why do you believe that things are different today?

Show evidence of masons or jesuits conspiring against Christ and Christians. This ought to be good.
 
ronniechoate34 said:
Tubalcain said:
Masons and Jesuits may be fearsome dragons, but those claiming they are are certainly no different.

So then you know their deeds. They are full of lies and murders. Is that what you are telling me?

Who is?

[quote:1nqoh4oy]So you are telling that anyone who points out the evil that has been wrought by the Jesuits is also guilty of those evils. Show me the scriptures that say so.

The scriptures end, time wise, some 1400 years before the Jesuits were a gleam in Ignatius de Loyola's eye.

This is well documented history and not just flights of fancy such as the one that you seem to be taking.
[/quote:1nqoh4oy]

Let's see that documentation on something other than conspiracy nut websites.
 
veteran said:
The documentation about subversive movements within Continental Masonry (European Masonry) is already out there, even written by a Mason, John Robison in the 1790's (Proofs Of A Conspiracy). So any Mason today claiming all this as some conspiracy theory have little credibility.

Subversive against whom? I'll tell you: against theocracy and monarchy. IOW they were doing the Lord's work there.

---The Abbe Barruel's work also stands as another source of documented fact on the operations of the Bavarian Illuminati order's influence within French Masonry during the French Revolution era.

T: There were Masons among the French Revolutionaries. The Illuminati were a short lived order disbanded after less than ten years.

--- And I know as a fact that the highest degrees in the Rosicrucian Order AMORC headquartered in San Jose, CA, are Illuminati degrees.

T: Rosicrurianism =/= masonry. Different animal. There is a Scottish rite degree of the Rose Cross but it's entirely different. Rosicrurianism is a new age order, entirely separate from Freemasonry.

----The documentation by both Robison and Barruel reveals a division within the Bavarian Illuminati membership roles, most members never reaching the higher degrees. That means the lower members have little clue as to what the higher level members are about.

T: so conspiracy-slingers claim, but it's all fairy tales. Of course, Bob Dole and George McGovern, Senate colleagues of different parties, wrote U.S. Agriculture policy, and they were both masons, so it;s a Masonic conspiracy that there's food to eat.

over throw of monarchies was a noble goal.
 
Those antimasons who see the Masonic emblem and slogan on the back of the dollar bill are earnestly solicited to send all of theirs to me.
 
Tubalcain said:
Subversive against whom? I'll tell you: against theocracy and monarchy. IOW they were doing the Lord's work there.

---The Abbe Barruel's work also stands as another source of documented fact on the operations of the Bavarian Illuminati order's influence within French Masonry during the French Revolution era.

T: There were Masons among the French Revolutionaries. The Illuminati were a short lived order disbanded after less than ten years.
I hear tell by those who study such thing, that the Illuminati is alive and well within the higher ups of the Masons. A SS within a SS. :twocents
 
I don't have time to sit here and look up historical references and information for you people. I don't have time to read all of the books that have been written on this on this subject over the last two hundred plus years either, and I don't have time to dig up two or three different versions of history for you so that I can study them all to get to the truth. Besides that even if I did have the time it would be a waste of my time.


Why would I do that? It's not like anyone's mind is going to change. It's a big waste of my time. I've got better things to do than to argue with y'all about what is really going on with satan and how he is presenting himself as the truth and the light.
 
the founding (some) of then were masons, that is no secret. I ask tubalcain what level are you.

I'm not saying that all the things that masons do is evil, most are good, but that isnt what gets you into heaven.

Can a muslim be a mason and have the same chance enter into heaven? Without the repentance and acceptance of Christ?

Mormons do good, and so do aethists, that dont mean they will see heaven.
 
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