Is Masonry A Sweet Little Kitty Or Dragon?

[veteran]

When Wieshaupt's order was banned in Europe, it didn't just end all the illuminists that had crept into the membership roles of Masonry, nor all the later added degrees like the Scottish Rite. I've seen a publication by the Rosicrucian order (AMORC) where some of it's higher members were asking about the its Illuminati degrees, if that had any relation to the old Bavarian Illuminati. AMORC said the same thing, that it was not connected because Wieshaupt's order had died out a long time ago. Wieshaupt also said in his papers that if his order were ever discovered, it would go ten times more deeper into secrecy. Just the fact that AMORC has higher degrees named Illuminati degrees should be enough to ring an alarm.

AMORC may be more of a scientific and studious type of occult fraternity, yet it still influences the minds and hearts of the deceived, because it does the same things Masonry does with the one world government goals. Both are actually 'political' type orders in reality, just as the Bavarian Illuminati was too, the lower degrees used simply as a way to hide its real aims of world government.

Subversive against whom? I'll tell you: against theocracy and monarchy. IOW they were doing the Lord's work there.

That statement reveals their political influence upon members to agree with overthrow of Christianity and Christian monarchs. The Church and Christian monarchs stand in the way of subversive movements like world communism and ideas of one world government. Thinking their overthrow is doing The Lord's work shows how deceived and duped a member of one of the fraternities like the Masons can be. How can Christ's Kingdom stand if He be divided against Himself? No, the subversive nature of the Masonic lodges during the French Revolution WERE NOT doing The LORD's work at all; they were doing the devil's work. Not everyone who has studied about the events of the French Revolution have been deceived by Masonic buzzwords like 'brotherhood, fraternity, liberty, equality'.

 

[Tubalcain]

Subversive against whom? I'll tell you: against theocracy and monarchy. IOW they were doing the Lord's work there.

---The Abbe Barruel's work also stands as another source of documented fact on the operations of the Bavarian Illuminati order's influence within French Masonry during the French Revolution era.

T: There were Masons among the French Revolutionaries. The Illuminati were a short lived order disbanded after less than ten years.

I hear tell by those who study such thing, that the Illuminati is alive and well within the higher ups of the Masons. A SS within a SS.

I heard Elvis Presley was seen at Burger King in Kalamazoo, Michigan, too, some time after his "death".

 

[Tubalcain]

I don't have time to sit here and look up historical references and information for you people. I don't have time to read all of the books that have been written on this on this subject over the last two hundred plus years either, and I don't have time to dig up two or three different versions of history for you so that I can study them all to get to the truth. Besides that even if I did have the time it would be a waste of my time.


Why would I do that? It's not like anyone's mind is going to change. It's a big waste of my time. I've got better things to do than to argue with y'all about what is really going on with satan and how he is presenting himself as the truth and the light.

therefore you admit your arguments consist wholly of unsupported assertions. We already knew that.

 

[Tubalcain]

the founding (some) of then were masons, that is no secret. I ask tubalcain what level are you.

Level of what?

I'm not saying that all the things that masons do is evil, most are good, but that isnt what gets you into heaven.

Not the topic but no disagreement from me.

Can a muslim be a mason and have the same chance enter into heaven? Without the repentance and acceptance of Christ?

Mormons do good, and so do aethists, that dont mean they will see heaven.

Or that you will either.

 

[Tubalcain]

When Wieshaupt's order was banned in Europe, it didn't just end all the illuminists that had crept into the membership roles of Masonry, nor all the later added degrees like the Scottish Rite. I've seen a publication by the Rosicrucian order (AMORC) where some of it's higher members were asking about the its Illuminati degrees, if that had any relation to the old Bavarian Illuminati. AMORC said the same thing, that it was not connected because Wieshaupt's order had died out a long time ago. Wieshaupt also said in his papers that if his order were ever discovered, it would go ten times more deeper into secrecy. Just the fact that AMORC has higher degrees named Illuminati degrees should be enough to ring an alarm.

An alarm for what? Like all New Agers they're after your money but that's not the issue here.

QUOTE: AMORC may be more of a scientific and studious type of occult fraternity, yet it still influences the minds and hearts of the deceived, because it does the same things Masonry does with the one world government goals. Both are actually 'political' type orders in reality, just as the Bavarian Illuminati was too, the lower degrees used simply as a way to hide its real aims of world government.

This is about masonry, not AMORC. Mention of AMORC is just a deflection to mask the lack of an argument.

quote "tubelcain" Subversive against whom? I'll tell you: against theocracy and monarchy. IOW they were doing the Lord's work there.

That statement reveals their political influence upon members to agree with overthrow of Christianity and Christian monarchs. The Church and Christian monarchs stand in the way of subversive movements like world communism and ideas of one world government. Thinking their overthrow is doing The Lord's work shows how deceived and duped a member of one of the fraternities like the Masons can be. How can Christ's Kingdom stand if He be divided against Himself? No, the subversive nature of the Masonic lodges during the French Revolution WERE NOT doing The LORD's work at all; they were doing the devil's work. Not everyone who has studied about the events of the French Revolution have been deceived by Masonic buzzwords like 'brotherhood, fraternity, liberty, equality'.

Assertions of divine appointment of Kings is just a mask for the exercise of power and control. If what you said was true all it would show is the evil nature of the false god who would create such an evil system.

 

[ronniechoate34]

I don't have time to sit here and look up historical references and information for you people. I don't have time to read all of the books that have been written on this on this subject over the last two hundred plus years either, and I don't have time to dig up two or three different versions of history for you so that I can study them all to get to the truth. Besides that even if I did have the time it would be a waste of my time.


Why would I do that? It's not like anyone's mind is going to change. It's a big waste of my time. I've got better things to do than to argue with y'all about what is really going on with satan and how he is presenting himself as the truth and the light.

therefore you admit your arguments consist wholly of unsupported assertions. We already knew that.

Who's we? Have you got a mouse in your pocket?


I know the bloody history of the Catholic church and the Jesuits. It's already been written, all that the Catholic church has to stand on their lame excuses and promises that they've changed, they are different now,,, and of course,,,that the bad men have all gone away. It's not true. I see the game.


You are welcome to believe that I am ignorant, or just plain stupid, or that "I've got nothing". You can call me whatever you'd like. I won't concern myself with it. I don't know why I would. Just remember that while you are making all of these unrighteous judgments with NOTHING to go on that you have had ample opportunity to judge what is right.

 

[jasoncran]

tubalcain, i know the lord as personal savior. Do you? What degree mason are you?

 

[veteran]

An alarm for what? Like all New Agers they're after your money but that's not the issue here.

And the Masonic lodge isn't about money and political control? If you think it isn't, then it shows how well they've deceived you.

This is about masonry, not AMORC. Mention of AMORC is just a deflection to mask the lack of an argument.

John Robison outlined the structure of the Illuminati order's influence within Continental Masonry. He wrote his work as a warning to other Masons, of how original Masonry was being taken over by subversives planted by Wieshaupt's order. He included a structure of degrees and their nature, which the Rosicrucian order also follows. And if I recall, it was you that mentioned the Rosicrucian order also have a Scottish Rite degree. Robison showed in his work the Scottish Rite degree was an Illuminati addition within Continental Masonry.

Assertions of divine appointment of Kings is just a mask for the exercise of power and control. If what you said was true all it would show is the evil nature of the false god who would create such an evil system.

King Solomon was a divinely appointed king, even as his father David was. So what I inferred about divinely appointed monarchs IS true, per The Word of God. Based on your previous response on this point about agreement with the overthrow of theocracy and monarchs, it suggests you believe fraternities like the Masons need to exist in order the check the power of the Church and Christian monarchs. That reasoning aligns with the subversive nature of Wieshaupt's Bavarian Illuminati. With that kind of belief, it reveals why you've come here to a Christian forum.

My suggestion to you, simply as a Christian who cares about the condition of your soul, is that you get out of any such fraternities that exercise a political strategy for world control, or that teaches against Christ's Church and His Word, and against Christian monarchs. Now if you really don't believe our Heavenly Father and His Son are Real, then have a good trip.

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Oath of a Jesuit



"I, ____ now, in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed Michael the Archangel, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the holy Apostles St. Peter and St. Paul and all the saints and sacred hosts of heaven, and to you, my ghostly father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola in the Pontificate of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear, that his holiness the Pope is Christ's Vice-regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing, given to his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments, all being illegal without his sacred confirmation and that they may safely be destroyed. Therefore, to the utmost of my power I shall and will defend this doctrine of his Holiness' right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, and the now pretended authority and churches of England and Scotland, and branches of the same now established in Ireland and on the Continent of America and elsewhere; and all adherents in regard that they be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now renounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or state named Protestants or Liberals, or obedience to any of the laws, magistrates or officers.
"I do further declare that the doctrine of the churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huguenots and others of the name Protestants or Liberals to be damnable and they themselves damned who will not forsake the same.
"I do further declare, that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of his Holiness' agents in any place wherever I shall be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, England, Ireland or America, or in any other Kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my uttermost to extirpate the heretical Protestants or Liberals' doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, regal or otherwise.
"I do further promise and declare, that notwithstanding I am dispensed with, to assume my religion heretical, for the propaganda of the Mother Church's interest, to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they may entrust me and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstance whatever; but to execute all that shall be proposed, given in charge or discovered unto me, by you, my ghostly father, or any of this sacred covenant.
"I do further promise and declare, that I will have no opinion or will of my own, or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.
"That I may go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions of the North, the burning sands of the desert of Africa, or the jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America, without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.
"I furthermore promise and declare that I will, when opportunity present, make and wage relentless war, secretly or openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Liberals, as I am directed to do, to extirpate and exterminate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex or condition; and that I will hang, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics, rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infants' heads against the walls, in order to annihilate forever their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisoned cup, the strangulating cord, the steel of the poniard or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the person or persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Faith, of the Society of Jesus.
In confirmation of which, I hereby dedicate my life, my soul and all my corporal powers, and with this dagger which I now receive, I will subscribe my name written in my own blood, in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and my feet, and my throat from ear to ear, my belly opened and sulphur burned therein, with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul be tortured by demons in an eternal hell forever!
"All of which, I, _____, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and blessed Sacraments, which I am now to receive, to perform and on my part to keep inviolable; and do call all the heavenly and glorious host of heaven to witness the blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist, and witness the same further with my name written and with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and sealed in the face of this holy covenant."
(He receives the wafer from the Superior and writes his name with the point of his dagger dipped in his own blood taken from over his heart.)

 

[JudaicChristian]

Did some one say the Jesuits were a sweet little kitty?

 

[JudaicChristian]

The Oath of a Knight of Columbus



"I, ___ ___, now in the presence of Almighty God, the Blessed Virgin Mary, the Blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the Saints, Sacred Hosts of Heaven and to you, my Ghostly Father, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the Pontification of Paul III, and continued to the present, do by the Womb of the Virgin, the Matrix of God, and the Rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that his Holiness, the Pope, is Christ’s Viceregent and is the true and only Head of the Catholic of Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given his Holiness by my Savior, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical kings, princes, states, commonwealths and governments and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and his Holiness’ right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden, and Norway and the now pretended authority of the Churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere, and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome.
"I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince, or state, named Protestant, or Liberals, or obedient to any of their laws, magistrates or officers.
"I do further declare that the doctrines of the Churches of England and Scotland, of the Calvinists, Huegenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same.
"I do further declare that I will help, assist and advise all or any of his Holiness’ agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland, or America or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise.
"I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church’s interests, to keep secret and private all her agent’s counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing, or circumstances whatever, but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of the Sacred Order.
"I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatsoever, even as a corpse or cadaver (Perinde ac Cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my Superiors in the Militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ.
"That I will go to any part of the world withersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions North, jungles of India, to the centers of civilization of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things whatsoever communicated to me.
"I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex, or condition, and that I will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women and crush their infant’s heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrably race. That when the same cannot be done openly, I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honor, rank, dignity, or authority of the persons whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agent of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.
"In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the Militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, by belly opened and sulfur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever.
"That I will in voting always vote for a K. of C. in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party to do so; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of the Mother Church and vote accordingly.
"That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with and employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the heretics.
"That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the Militia of the Pope.
"All of which I, ____ ____, do swear by the Blessed Trinity and Blessed Sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on my part to keep my oath.
"In testimony hereof, I take this Most Holy and Blessed Sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this Holy Sacrament." Oath Taken by a Perspective Member of the Knights of Columbus, as recorded in Congressional Record of the U.S.A., House Bill 1523, Contested election case of Eugene C. Bonniwell, against Thos. S. Butler, Feb. 15, 1913.

 

[JudaicChristian]

Quote: "That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with and employ a Catholic." For a long time Catholics were not to buy, sale, or trade with any Protestants.

 

[ronniechoate34]

You know what? I looked into what it takes to achieve knighthood. It didn't take much looking for me to realize that it's a serious commitment and once you are in you can never get out. It's not for me, and I can't imagine why anyone would swear by such things.


M't:5:33: Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
M't:5:34: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
M't:5:35: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
M't:5:36: Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
M't:5:37: But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

 

[JudaicChristian]

You know what? I looked into what it takes to achieve knighthood. It didn't take much looking for me to realize that it's a serious commitment and once you are in you can never get out. It's not for me, and I can't imagine why anyone would swear by such things.


M't:5:33: Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
M't:5:34: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:
M't:5:35: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
M't:5:36: Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
M't:5:37: But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

They all seem to be keeping secrets and speaking in coded words. Is that the Christian way? Not according to scripture.
Matthew 10:27
What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs.

 

[Tubalcain]

I know the bloody history of the Catholic church and the Jesuits. It's already been written, all that the Catholic church has to stand on their lame excuses and promises that they've changed, they are different now,,, and of course,,,that the bad men have all gone away. It's not true. I see the game.


You are welcome to believe that I am ignorant, or just plain stupid, or that "I've got nothing". You can call me whatever you'd like. I won't concern myself with it. I don't know why I would. Just remember that while you are making all of these unrighteous judgments with NOTHING to go on that you have had ample opportunity to judge what is right.

I am not a Catholic and am not interested in "Catholics are de debbil" arguments. Masonry is to Catholicism like a dog is to a chair.

 

[Tubalcain]

tubalcain, i know the lord as personal savior. Do you? What degree mason are you?

Why do you keep asking me that which I've answered?

 

[Tubalcain]

"veteran": And the Masonic lodge sn't about money and political control? If you think it isn't, then it shows how well they've deceived you.

--I'm a fat guy. I'm primarily there for the Knife and Fork Degrees.

V: King Solomon was a divinely appointed king, even as his father David was. So what I inferred about divinely appointed monarchs IS true, per The Word of God. Based on your previous response on this point about agreement with the overthrow of theocracy and monarchs, it suggests you believe fraternities like the Masons need to exist in order the check the power of the Church and Christian monarchs. That reasoning aligns with the subversive nature of Wieshaupt's Bavarian Illuminati. With that kind of belief, it reveals why you've come here to a Christian forum.

--Fear's a difficult thing. Louis XVII was no Solomon or David. Neither was George III.

My suggestion to you, simply as a Christian who cares about the condition of your soul, is that you get out of any such fraternities that exercise a political strategy for world control, or that teaches against Christ's Church and His Word, and against Christian monarchs. Now if you really don't believe our Heavenly Father and His Son are Real, then have a good trip.

If that's all your religion means to you it isn't helping you. I suggest you leave fraternal groups which oppose tyranny alone and serve in a soup kitchen or something, like Masons do occasionally.

 

[Tubalcain]

The Oath of a Knight of Columbus...

There's one antimasonic clause in there after another, thus providing evidence of the stupidity of the joint Masonic-Catholic conspiracy scare.

KoC was created to provide an equivalent fraternal group for Catholic men after a Pope in the 1860s prohibited Catholics from becoming Masons. While Masons are not intertwined with any particular denomination, KoC is purely Roman Catholic.

There's hardly hostility though in our free society. We march in the same parades and campaign at each other's dinners. And the religious right groups cooperate fully with KoC's involvement in the social issues where they share the same position like abortion.

 

[Tubalcain]

Did some one say the Jesuits were a sweet little kitty?

Jesuit high schools and colleges tend to have quite agressive basketball teams, including the girls' teams.

 

[veteran]

--Fear's a difficult thing. Louis XVII was no Solomon or David. Neither was George III.

My suggestion to you, simply as a Christian who cares about the condition of your soul, is that you get out of any such fraternities that exercise a political strategy for world control, or that teaches against Christ's Church and His Word, and against Christian monarchs. Now if you really don't believe our Heavenly Father and His Son are Real, then have a good trip.

If that's all your religion means to you it isn't helping you. I suggest you leave fraternal groups which oppose tyranny alone and serve in a soup kitchen or something, like Masons do occasionally.

Christianity and Christian monarchs exist because God has ordained it. And He warned Israel long ago what wishing to have a flesh king like the pagan nations around them would cause. He never promised they all would be just and upright like king David, yet He did give each one the chance to be upright. God is Who sets leaders in power over us, not the Masons. He also allows Christ's enemies to creep in among His people to overthrow when they are rebellious, as it is today. In other words, fraternities like the Masons have no real power of their own, they're simply being used to help bring about a condition on this earth called the great tribulation, which will only last a very short time, since that's what will usher in Christ's return to this earth as KING of kings and LORD of lords. All knees will bow to Him as LORD, as written. There won't be bowing to any worshipful master, nor to false gods portrayed upon the walls inside the temples of paganism.