Is obeying the Lord and His Commandments required for salvation?

[rogerg]

t's talking about, those who obey and those who do not obey.
So would some be predestined to disobey?

Those who have been blinded by Satan do not/ can not obey.

 

[JLB]

Those who have been blinded by Satan do not/ can not obey.

Your statement does not address the scripture or question he asked.


Everyone in the world is blinded, until the light of the glorius gospel of Jesus Christ shines upon them;


But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine on them. For we do not preach ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord, and ourselves your bondservants for Jesus’ sake.
2 Corinthians 4:3-5

The way unsaved people who are blind receive light and salvation is by the preaching of the Gospel.




JLB

 

[rogerg]

The way unsaved people who are blind receive light and salvation is by the preaching of the Gospel.

So according to you, everyone who is preached to will receive salvation? Everyone? That right?
Yes or No?

 

[JLB]

So according to you, everyone who is preached to will receive salvation? Everyone? That right?
Yes or No?

Absolutely not!


Everyone who hears the gospel most certainly does not automatically receive salvation.

This tells me you don’t bother to read what I write.


Those who believe, and therefore obey the Gospel, are saved.


I have stated this truth, many many times to you.


You seem either unwilling or unable to grasp this basic foundational truth from the scriptures.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

They way, the only way for a person to be saved is by believing the Gospel message of Jesus Christ, in which He becomes your Lord; your master in whom you obey.


Your Lord is the one you obey, whether it’s Jesus Christ, or Satan.


If I say Jesus is Lord but I obey Satan, then I am are what the Bible calls a hypocrite.


Only people who obey Jesus as Lord receive eternal salvation.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9

• He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him

But why do you call Me ‘Lord, Lord,’ and not do the things which I say? Luke 6:46









JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Just to clarify my prior reply to JLB about the repentance made by Judas. IMHO, I believe Judas's repentance was exclusively limited to his betrayal of Jesus - that because of his action, Jesus was condemned (and this is a subtle but significant distinction), I don't believe that repentance was by/from the fruit of the Spirit; that is, a repentance given by the Holy Spirit through becoming born again. That kind of repentance is only manifested in an awareness/realization one receives as a gift from the Spirit that Jesus alone is Savior and God along with faith in Him. Had that kind of repentance been demonstrated by him, which it doesn't appear it was, it would have indicated that his sin had been forgiven him. However, that was not the case so his sin remained.

I'd say that, at the point in time of your post, none of the Apostles really understood who Jesus was. Maybe Peter and John.

 

[rogerg]

You seem either unwilling or unable to grasp this basic foundational truth from the scriptures.

Absolutely not!


Everyone who hears the gospel most certainly does not automatically receive salvation.

Wow, really? The below is YOUR post, not mine:

"The way unsaved people who are blind receive light and salvation is by the preaching of the Gospel."

So have you now changed your belief in that proposition? Whether you realize it or not, what you've actually said above is that everyone who hears the Gospel preached, becomes saved, period. Please, just read your own statement carefully.

 

[Fastfredy0]

It will at once be discovered that saving faith is far more than a hearty assenting unto what God’s Word sets before us, when we perceive that unbelief is much more than an error or judgment or a failure to assent unto the Truth. Scripture depicts unbelief as a virulent and violent principle of opposition to God. Unbelief has both a passive and active, a negative and positive, side, and therefore the Greek noun is rendered both by "unbelief" (Romans 11:20; Hebrews 4:6, 11), and "disobedience"(Ephesians 2:2b; Ephesians 5:6) and the verb by "believed not" (Hebrews 3:18; Hebrews 11:30) and "obey not" (1 Peter 3:1b; 1 Peter 4:17). By one man’s disobedience[unbelief] many were made sinners (Romans 5:12) "They could not enter in [the promised land] because of unbelief" (Hebrews.3:19). Love of sin is the immediate cause of unbelief: "And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil"(John 3:19). Proverbs 28:13 He who conceals his transgressions will not prosper, But whoever confesses and turns away from his sins will find compassion and mercy.

Should an insurrectionist and seditionist come to an earthly king seeking his sovereign favor and pardon, then, obviously, the very law of his coming to him for forgiveness requires that he should come on his knees, laying aside his hostility. So it is with a sinner who really comes savingly to Christ for pardon; it is against the law of faith to do otherwise. Luke 14:27 Whoever does not carry his own cross [expressing a willingness to endure whatever may come] and follow after Me [believing in Me, conforming to My example in living and, if need be, suffering or perhaps dying because of faith in Me] cannot be My disciple.

Coming to Christ is a leaving of all false confidences, a renouncing of all love to sin and a looking to Jesus as the solitary pillar of our confidence and hope. Saving faith consists of the complete surrender of my whole being and life to the claims of God upon me: "But first gave their own selves to the Lord" (2 Corinthians 8:5).

Saving faith is a believing on Christ with the heart: "If thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God raised Him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness" (Romans 10:9-10). There is no such thing as a saving faith in Christ where there is no real love for Him, and by "real love" we mean a love which is evidenced by obedience. Christ acknowledges none to be His friends save those who do whatsoever He commands them (John 15:14). As unbelief is a species of rebellion, so saving faith is a complete subjection to God: Hence we read of "the obedience of faith" (Romans 16:26). Therefore, if there is an absence in your obedience, you are on the way to Hell. A.W. Pink - Studies on Saving Faith

... and if the foundation of your obedience (the bible and/or tradition and/or mysticism and/or the book of mormom and/or the apocrypha and/or ...) is incorrect then you are not being obedient to the degree you follow a source that is in disagreement to the true source.

Sola Scriptura is a theological doctrine held by some Protestant Christian denominations that posits the Christian scriptures as the sole infallible source of authority for Christian faith and practice. (Google)

 

[JLB]

Unwilling because you misinterpret the Bible. You just don't grasp God's salvation and try to turn it into a work dependent upon man.

Why is it that you believe it is misrepresenting the Bible to teach that one must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to be saved?


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Please explain to us how a person is saved if not by believing the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ.





JLB

 

[JLB]

The way unsaved people who are blind receive light and salvation is by the preaching of the Gospel."

So have you now changed your belief in that proposition? Whether you realize it or not, what you've actually said above is that everyone who hears the Gospel preached, becomes saved, period.

No that is not what I said at all, as everyone can see by what I write that salvation comes by hearing and believing the Gospel.


You are trying to twist my words, are misrepresent what I say, because you refuse to believe what is written in the scriptures.


The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for all who believe.


For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek. Romans 1:16

• for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,

JLB

 

[rogerg]

Why is it that you believe it is misrepresenting the Bible to teach that one must believe the Gospel of Jesus Christ, in order to be saved?

Because, in order to be able to truly believe/understand the Gospel one has to first be born again, not the reverse. You have agreed in the past that God is the Savior, that means everything needed for salvation had to be accomplished by Him or the title of Savior couldn't have been bestowed upon Him. To say otherwise is to try to increase man's contribution while diminishing Christ's. We must first receive the Holy Ghost in order to be taught of Him of things spiritual.

Please, consider these verses carefully

[1Co 2:5 KJV]
5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[1Co 2:12-14 KJV]
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes,

But no one can believe unless it is first given to them per 1 Co2:14 above. To know the "things of God", we first must have received "the spirit which is of God" per 1 Co 2:12.

You are trying to twist my words, are misrepresent what I say, because you refuse to believe what is written in the scriptures.

I didn't twist your words, I simply quoted you back to you so you could hear it again. If it
is twisted, it is because your understanding is incorrect. How could I have misrepresented if
I only quoted what you said - what I quoted was stand-alone and complete within itself ? Did I add anything to it or change it ?

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, for all who believe.

You assume that it is within man's power to believe. Col 2:14 is part of that same Gospel
and it tells us differently - that that belief must be spiritually discerned, but it cannot be
discerned without first having received the Holy Spirit who guides our discernment. Without the Holy Spirit we are
natural man. Belief (faith) is the fruit of the Spirit. To have the Holy Spirit, we first have
to have been born again which only God can make happen

 

[Fastfredy0]

Is obeying the Lord required for salvation? The genuine Christian believes what Scripture says concerning the natural heart, namely, that it is "deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9),and the surest proof that he does believe this solemn fact is that he is deeply concerned lest "a deceived heart hath turned him aside" (Isaiah 44:20), and caused him to believe that all is well with his soul, when in reality he is yet "in the gall of bitterness, and the bond of iniquity." He believes what God’s Word says about Satan, the great deluder, and trembles lest, after all, the Devil has beguiled him with a false peace. Such a possibility, such a likelihood, occasions him much exercise of soul. Like David of old (and every other genuine saint), he "communes with his own heart" (Psalm 4:4), and his "spirit (makes) diligent search"(Psalm 77:6). He turns to the light of Holy Writ, anxious to have his character and conduct scrutinized by the same, desiring to have his deeds made manifest, as to whether they proceed from self-love or real love to God. A.W. Pink – Studies on Saving Faith​

The question at hand is is about obedience to God needed for salvation. To answer the question properly one must define the source of the Lord's instructions that are to be obey. Is a man's salvation assured if he follows the instructions of God as found in the Bible alone (Sola Scriptura) or is man's salvation dependent on other instructions from God: tradition, the apocrypha, certain men, other sources. Yes, one must obey God for salvation which is the effect of conversion, but how do you define the contents of obedience. If you believe the Bible you believe that many are deceived, but which source(s) of God instructions are false and do they lead to destruction?
"Study to show thyself approved (obedient)" ... but study who, what. We know whom is the source of truth, but where is His truth to be found? Many are deceived.

 

[JLB]

Is obeying the Lord required for salvation? The genuine Christian believes what Scripture says concerning the natural heart, namely, that it is "deceitful above all things" (Jeremiah 17:9),and the surest proof that he does believe this solemn fact is that he is deeply concerned lest "a deceived heart hath turned him aside" (Isaiah 44:20), and caused him to believe that all is well with his soul, when in reality he is yet "in the gall of bitterness, and the bond of iniquity." He believes what God’s Word says about Satan, the great deluder, and trembles lest, after all, the Devil has beguiled him with a false peace. Such a possibility, such a likelihood, occasions him much exercise of soul. Like David of old (and every other genuine saint), he "communes with his own heart" (Psalm 4:4), and his "spirit (makes) diligent search"(Psalm 77:6). He turns to the light of Holy Writ, anxious to have his character and conduct scrutinized by the same, desiring to have his deeds made manifest, as to whether they proceed from self-love or real love to God. A.W. Pink – Studies on Saving Faith​

The question at hand is is about obedience to God needed for salvation. To answer the question properly one must define the source of the Lord's instructions that are to be obey. Is a man's salvation assured if he follows the instructions of God as found in the Bible alone (Sola Scriptura) or is man's salvation dependent on other instructions from God: tradition, the apocrypha, certain men, other sources. Yes, one must obey God for salvation which is the effect of conversion, but how do you define the contents of obedience. If you believe the Bible you believe that many are deceived, but which source(s) of God instructions are false and do they lead to destruction?
"Study to show thyself approved (obedient)" ... but study who, what. We know whom is the source of truth, but where is His truth to be found? Many are deceived.

One only needs to read what the scripture says.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Salvation begins by obeying the Gospel, which is what the word “believe” actually means in the original.




Example:


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NASB

• he who does not obey the Son will not see life

Let’s encourage each other to love God, by doing what He asks us to do, which is love.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 15:14


Do you believe love is a requirement for salvation?



Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15





JLB

 

[Fastfredy0]

One only needs to read what the scripture says.


And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him, Hebrews 5:9


Salvation begins by obeying the Gospel, which is what the word “believe” actually means in the original.




Example:


He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NKJV


He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”
John 3:36 NASB

• he who does not obey the Son will not see life

Let’s encourage each other to love God, by doing what He asks us to do, which is love.


“If you love Me, keep My commandments. John 15:15





JLB

Not sure why you quoted my post, as your response is, for the most part, IRRELEVANT.

The Lord is the source of instructions for obedience. My post questioned where one finds what the Lord's instructions for obedience. The Bible, tradition, certain people, the apocrypha, something else, a combination of these, what parts are disqualifying.

 

[JLB]

You just don't grasp God's salvation and try to turn it into a work dependent upon man.

Do you believe confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus, is a work?


that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

JLB

 

[JLB]

Not sure why you quoted my post, as your response is, for the most part, IRRELEVANT.

The Lord is the source of instructions for obedience. My post questioned where one finds what the Lord's instructions for obedience. The Bible, tradition, certain people, the apocrypha, something else, a combination of these, what parts are disqualifying.

Obeying the Lord is something we should all agree on, because this is why He has redeemed us from disobedience, from every wicked work; that we would love Him and love our neighbor.


For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:3



JLB

 

[JLB]

This is not a thread about Calvinism.

I posted the scriptures that I believe are relevant to my claim.


Maybe you could share with us, why you believe that obeying the Lord is not required for salvation?




JLB

 

[Serving Zion]

[ACMP=announcement]
This thread has been cleaned up and a few parts removed from Public Record.

Please remember to only address the issue and not the person (ToS 1.3). That means there is no need to point at a person's denomination as being the cause of the problem, instead focus on showing how the person's position is not consistent with scripture.

Furthermore, if you continue to be incooperative in conversation by ignoring reasonable questions and speaking matter-of-factly about matters that the question seeks to clarify, it amounts to goading, and being in violation of ToS 1.5, carries severe penalties including possible instant ban.
[/ACMP]

 

[Serving Zion]

Not sure why you quoted my post, as your response is, for the most part, IRRELEVANT.

It is because he has asked an important question and has read your post in context of being an answer to that question based upon the fact that your post has a heading that more-or-less rephrases the question. He has thus interpreted your post as being an answer to that question and proceeded to treat it as such.

This is the question that, I note, remains unanswered:

Please explain to us how a person is saved if not by believing the Gospel Message of Jesus Christ

When a question such as that arises from discussions on a Christian discussion board, it deserves to be answered.

 

[JLB]

The Lord is the source of instructions for obedience. My post questioned where one finds what the Lord's instructions for obedience. The Bible, tradition, certain people, the apocrypha, something else, a combination of these, what parts are disqualifying.

Amen.


Well said. I agree.

 

[JLB]

Because, in order to be able to truly believe/understand the Gospel one has to first be born again, not the reverse.

that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Romans 10:9


The biblical requirement for salvation is to believe the gospel message of salvation. The element of obedience to the Gospel is to confess with our mouth Jesus as Lord. This is obeying the Gospel.


For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16


This scripture says “whoever believes” will have everlasting life, and is contextually linked to His dialog with the High Priest Nicodemus.


Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
Nicodemus answered and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
Jesus answered and said to him, “Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? Most assuredly, I say to you, We speak what We know and testify what We have seen, and you do not receive Our witness. If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things? No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
“He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. John 3:5-18


Being born again is a direct result of believing the Gospel.

Please read John 3:16 in it’s context with John 3:5-6

• For “whoever calls on the name of the LORD shall be saved.”

The name of the LORD is Jesus. This is the only Name under heaven by which men can be saved.


Confessing Him as Lord is obeying the Gospel.










JLB