Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

[glorydaz]

No, that's not right. God is Spirit. He became flesh and dwelt among us...for a time and for a purpose.

"In the days of His flesh"....while on earth Jesus was fully man and fully God. That is the only physical body God ever had. Remember when Paul saw Jesus on the Damascus Road? He was a bright light that blinded Paul for three days.

As he saith also in another place, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared; Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Jesus has returned to glory...as He was in the beginning.
[quote="John 17:5":3sdzo24r] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

glorydaz,

None of the scriptures above shows that Jesus is only a spirit. But Jesus Himself was clear to prove to His disciple that He was not a spirit after He had lived upon this earth and resurrected. See below:

"Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have." Luke 24:39

Resurrection means the re-uniting of the physical body with the spirit again.

Thus, if Jesus is just like the Father, then the Father, of necessity, must have a body of flesh and bones just Jesus has.

Furthermore, from the very beginning in the scriptures the Father makes the point to emphasize that we are after His image and likeness:
When God created Adam He said "...Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:" Gen. 1: 26. God created man just like He is. Adam had a perfect body just like the Father. Image and likeness means we are like God and we look like Him. In other words, if I am like God and I am made in His likeness, then God cannot be different than me physically. The only difference would be that His is has glorious physical body and mine is a mortal one.

Notice also in the above scripture that God says "Let us." There are two people talking to each other. God the Father who has a body is talking to Jesus who was still a spirit that had not being born on the earth yet. So, you're write Jesus had glory before the world was, He was with God.

Have a great day,
mamre[/quote:3sdzo24r]

The man, Jesus, had a resurrected body, but it appeared as He wanted it to. If you look in Rev. 1, you will see He isn't the same in appearance as when He rose to the throne to sit at the right hand of God. God cannot have a body, as you assume, for He fills the whole heaven. Being made in the image of God does not mean God has a body. As we see from Scripture...God cannot be contained. He is everywhere...omnipresent. God is spirit. I realize it's hard to understand someone who is so great that the human mind cannot grasp His being, but we should never place human limitations on the Almighty God.

But who is able to build him an house, seeing the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain him? who am I then, that I should build him an house, save only to burn sacrifice before him?

 

[SonByAdoption]

god is a spirit for they that believe in must worship him in spirit and in truth. if he as a physical body how can he be omnipresent?

I hear this argument over and over again but it never gets any brighter. Listen to yourself my friend. You believe that omnipresent means everywhere present. Now if a being was able to be everywhere present and that includes the earth wouldn't that also include a throneroom in heaven. And if God the Father could be omnipresent and be in all of our bodies than why couldn't he be everywhere present and be in His own body as well one of the many bodies that He is omnipresent in. Nothing could stop God the Father from being omnipresent not even a body. His body is apart of that everywhere It's included. No matter how much you guys might try to limit God and put rules on Him. He's not powerful enough to have a body and be omnipresent. Apparently God is not following your rules because He definitely has a body.

 

[SonByAdoption]

SonByAdoption

[quote:3esikswt]The Fact that the Bible calls God a spirit does not mean that He doesn't have a body.So are angels called spirits but many people have seen them. And the Bible says that Jesus was raised a life giving spirit but we know that He was resurrected with His body.and besides Adam was created in the image of God like a little clay model of the original Divine proof that God has a body.

"Created in the image of God" does not mean that we look like God (physically), but having his attitude and attributes. Tiger wood's image was destroyed by his behavior and the media. This does not mean that his body was destroyed.

Ps - Adam and Eve did not see God. The voice of God is what was walking with them.[/quote:3esikswt]

A person who belongs to a religious cult reads the bible like this. They take one bible verse "firstborn of creation of God" they misinterpret this bible verse "Christ must be a created being" than they use this misinterpretation of this one bible verse to interpret the rest of the bible. "Don't show me any verses that show me Christ is not created because I'm just going to refer you back to Col 1:15 I'm a cultist and this is how cults read the bible."

The same thing that the majority of Christianity is accusing the J.W. of doing abusing Col 1:15 is the same way that these major Christian groups are abusing John 4:24"God is a spirit. If you show me anywhere that says God has a body. I'm going to refer you to John 4:24 because I'm a cultist and I make a whole entire doctrine out of my misintepretation of one single bible verse just like the J.W.

Change my friend please don't do this thing please don't read the Bible like a cult. Don't interpret the genesis account with your misunderstanding of John 4:24. Jesus did not even say that God is a spirit there is no "a" in the greek. He said God is spirit. And John said God is light. So everytime we turn on a lightsweitch should we start worshipping the light or as soon as the sun starts shining in the morning should we start worshiping the sunlight calling it God for God is light.

When John says God is light he meant that God is the source of light and wisdom and when John said that God is love he meant that God is the source of love and maybe when Jesus said God is spirit he meant that He is the source of all spiritual things. Like when He said the words of God are spirit and they are life. All I know for sure is that Jesus Christ believes that God the Father has a Divine Form. He knew it. He's been to heaven. He saw it and He told the Pharasees that they hadn't see it in the very next chapter after John 4:24 "And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor SEEN HIS FORM."John 5:37 New American Standard Bible So He told the Pharasees than they had never seen the Father's form but He told us Christians that one day we will and this is the hope of us Christians "Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will SEE God."Matthew 5:8 You said that Adam and Eve had never seen God before they sinned but Jesus seems to make it clear that they did. After all we'rent Adam and Eve pure in heart? Of course they were. Of course they saw God the Father but then sin happened and God the Father could not be in their presence or they would die and that's when we see Christ our only Mediator walking in the garden in the cool of the day. And I know you said it was a voice walking. I'm sorry but that is a mistranslation of the hebrew word qowl6964 in this verse. That's why most current translations traslate this verse like this. "They heard the sound of Yahweh walking in the garden" Please check it out for yourself. Parallell bible is at biblecc.com The Niv translates it right and the young's literal traslation just to name a couple. Also look it up in the strong's online. See that the same hebrew word for voice means sound sometimes and noise in other times it's all about context. Especially since voices don't walk.

You said because Adam was created in the image of God doesn't mean that Adam looked like God.
Well both man and woman both have God's "attitude and attributes" as you put it but man is the only one who looked like God.
"A man should not wear anything on his head when worshiping, for man is made in God's image and reflects God's glory. And woman reflects man's glory."1st Corinthians 11:7 New Living Translation. But Just like Adam looked like God Adam's 3rd son looked like him for this is the only one who Adam begot in his image after his likeness genesis 5:3. The hebrew word for image is tsem and it is never used in the way you used it for tiger wood's talking about reputation. In english image and reputation mean the same thing at least in our modern english but back then in the K.J.V. I've never seen the word image used this way in the whole bible even more importantly the hebrew word tsem is not used like this it always refers to looking like something physical.

If you wanted to talk about destroying tiger woods image according to the way image is used in the bible is if my little tiger woods actin figure was destroyed or if God forbid something hapened to his child a car accident or something than that would be another example of his image being destroyed but as far as reputation the word image was not used that way.

I'm going to end this with quoting Job because seeing God with our own eyes is not just the hope of N.T. beleiver but it was the hope of all O.T. believers as well.

Job 19:25 For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:

26 And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:

27 Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me

 

[SonByAdoption]

god is a spirit for they that believe in must worship him in spirit and in truth. if he as a physical body how can he be omnipresent?

I don't believe God has any kind of physical body, but there is a such thing as a spiritual body. He is not formless. He walked and talked with Adam and Eve in the garden.

And OT prophets had visions of Him, as well as Moses. He is a spirit, but he does have a form.

Both God the Father and His Only Born Son spent the 1st 7th day Sabbath with Adam and Eve and all the 7th day sabbaths after that before they sinned but once Adam and Eve sinned God the Father could not be with them or they would die. That was Christ who they heard walking who they hid from. It was Christ who appeared to Abraham and ate with him and wrestled with Jacob and appeared to Moses. And no these were not visions. The N.T. says no man has seen God the Father but this does not include Christ who is a totally diferent Divine Being equal but younger.

Anyways you said that Moses saw visions but Christ was really clear that he did not see visions.

"He said, "Hear now my words. If there is a prophet among you, I Yahweh will make myself known to him in a vision. I will speak with him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so. He is faithful in all my houseWith him I will speak mouth to mouth, even plainly, and not in riddles; and he shall see Yahweh's form. Why then were you not afraid to speak against my servant, against Moses?"Numbers 12:6-8

 

[SonByAdoption]

I definitely am not confusing the two. Jesus gave up His immortality,omniscience,and omnipotence and was born as a human knowing nothing. He lived as a human and died as a human and His soul/spirit slept unconsciously in the grave until His Father resurrected Him.Jesus was a complete person and not divided. It wasn't just the son of man humanity that died for us it was the Divine Son of God who died for us.

Oops...I can't even go any farther than this. Jesus was fully God and fully man. Your inability to recognize that fact has resulted in the error we see. Jesus did not "give up" his immortality...God doesn't cease to be God simply because He takes on human form. Jesus was from the beginning and He will be throughout eternity. He is the Alpha and the Omega...the creator of all things. Don't even try to lecture me about anything since you are so full of error on this one critical point. BTW...He raised Himself from the cross, because He is God. He was no longer saddled with human flesh, and was fully God...as He had been from the beginning.

Did Jesus ever lie?

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

[quote="John 10:17-18":341vjyll] Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

Jesus spoke these words, just before He died. At His death, Jesus was glorified with the glory He'd had from the beginning...He was fully God without man's humanity at His death. The body that had been prepared for Him was no longer needed.

I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do. And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Jesus' body had been prepared for a specific purpose.

Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

The moment Jesus gave up the ghost, He was straightway glorified in the Father. Jesus was fully God, no longer saddled with his humanity.

Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

He subdues all things to "Himself".

Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

He reconciles all things unto "Himself." Why? Because He is God.

And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.

[/quote:341vjyll]

I'm sorry that a trinity doctrine has blinded you to the truth of the gospel. But my Jesus was literally born from the Father before time and before creation so My Jesus was God's true literal Son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus was just pretending to be a son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus only pretended to die because he never gave up His immortality but my Jesus really did die cease to exist body and soul."Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer. When you make his soul an offering for sin..."...because he poured out his soul to death..."Isaiah 53:10,12World English Bible He died completely body and soul just for me. My Jesus loved me that much!!

 

[glorydaz]

I'm sorry that a trinity doctrine has blinded you to the truth of the gospel. But my Jesus was literally born from the Father before time and before creation so My Jesus was God's true literal Son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus was just pretending to be a son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus only pretended to die because he never gave up His immortality but my Jesus really did die cease to exist body and soul."Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer. When you make his soul an offering for sin..."...because he poured out his soul to death..."Isaiah 53:10,12World English Bible He died completely body and soul just for me. My Jesus loved me that much!!

You're sorry for me? Do you realize how you sound?

It may be hard for you to believe...but your understanding of who Jesus is does not dictate who He is in fact. The Word is very clear that Jesus is God. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh....He died in the flesh. Those were the days of His flesh while He walked among us. He didn't pretend to die...He was fully human (that part died)...He was also fully God (that part never dies).

This is basic 101 Christianity. Jesus is the Word of God.
In the beginning....the Word was God....all things were made by Him.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God, the Word, was made flesh and dwelt among us. When that happened, He was called the Son of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So, regardless of whether you think you have some private Jesus who gave up His immortality just for you, the Word is clear Jesus is God and is still God today. The days of His flesh are past, and He has returned to glory.

 

[jasoncran]

son by adoption i am a former jw, lol. i love when people assume things about me.
i didnt believe the trinity, till i look to the lord and asked him what he was.

when i got saved i didnt start reading the bible in John, not the spirit told me not to , hit the ot first for i am a hebrew and i was a jw, and needed to be deprogrammed.

 

[SonByAdoption]

son by adoption i am a former jw, lol. i love when people assume things about me.
i didnt believe the trinity, till i look to the lord and asked him what he was.

when i got saved i didnt start reading the bible in John, not the spirit told me not to , hit the ot first for i am a hebrew and i was a jw, and needed to be deprogrammed.

I didn't assume anything about you being a J.W. Please go back and look at my post. It had nothing about you being a J.W. It was about you and the rest of Christianity including J.W.[who also believe God doesn't have a body by the way] misinterpreting John 4:24 to try and imply God the Father doesn't have a Divine Form even though Jesus says that He was from heaven and He saw the Father's form but he tells the Pharisees that they didn't see it."And the Father who sent Me, He has testified of Me. You have neither heard His voice at any time nor SEEN HIS FORM."John 5:37

You said in one of your posts that God the Father could not have a body and be omnipresent which doesn't make any sense at all because if The Father's spirit can be present with us in all of our bodies than surely it can be present in His own Divine form which is sitting on the throne room in heaven in the center of the universe."Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence?"Psalms 139:7

The Father has a Divine form and He also has a mind but unlike us His mind [not some third person]is not limited to His body.The Father's mind is omnipresent and His mind is present in our hearts and Christ's mind too just like He promised. John 14:23"My Father and I will come unto him and make our abode with him"

But thank you for telling me about your J.W. conversion. Please don't think you are out of the woods yet.

If you want my opinion I think that Trinitarians and J.W. believe the same thing when it comes to Christ Sonship and Christ's incarnation. J.W say Christ is not God's Son born from Him before creation He is a created being. Trinitarians say Christ is not God's Son born from Him before creation. He is the same age as His Father.More like a same age friend or a close associate than a Son. J.W. teach that only a created being died on the cross for us. trinitarians say that only Christ's humanity died on the cross. Not his divinity."Yet it pleased Yahweh to...make his soul an offering for sin...""...he poured out his soul to death..."Isaiah 53:10,12 The truth of the gospel is that God gave birth to a Son born from His own substance in eternity giving His Son His self existence "life in himself"John 5:26 that's why He had the power to exist outside of time just like His Father and then they both God and His true literal Son created the universe "..who has established the ends of the earth. What is His name and what is HIS SON's name."Let us make man"Proverbs 30:4 Gen 1:26 This is who the One God was talking to when He created man His One Son.

Jesus died completely body and soul for us and he was unconsciously sleeping until His Father woke Him up.

 

[SonByAdoption]

I'm sorry that a trinity doctrine has blinded you to the truth of the gospel. But my Jesus was literally born from the Father before time and before creation so My Jesus was God's true literal Son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus was just pretending to be a son. I'm sorry for you that your Jesus only pretended to die because he never gave up His immortality but my Jesus really did die cease to exist body and soul."Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him. He has caused him to suffer. When you make his soul an offering for sin..."...because he poured out his soul to death..."Isaiah 53:10,12World English Bible He died completely body and soul just for me. My Jesus loved me that much!!

You're sorry for me? Do you realize how you sound?

It may be hard for you to believe...but your understanding of who Jesus is does not dictate who He is in fact. The Word is very clear that Jesus is God. Jesus is God manifest in the flesh....He died in the flesh. Those were the days of His flesh while He walked among us. He didn't pretend to die...He was fully human (that part died)...He was also fully God (that part never dies).

This is basic 101 Christianity. Jesus is the Word of God.
In the beginning....the Word was God....all things were made by Him.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God, the Word, was made flesh and dwelt among us. When that happened, He was called the Son of God.
[quote="John 1:14":1kr4kz8s]And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So, regardless of whether you think you have some private Jesus who gave up His immortality just for you, the Word is clear Jesus is God and is still God today. The days of His flesh are past, and He has returned to glory.[/quote:1kr4kz8s]

en arche En ho logos kai ho logos En pros "ton theon" kai theos En ho logos
In beginning was the Word and the Word was with "the God" and God was the word
houtos En en arche pro "ton theon"
the same was in beginning with "the God"

The Word "was God" but the Word was not "the God" who he was with. John differentiated the two Divine beings because John had never heard of a trinity. John believed that God had an only Born Son with Him in heaven before He sent that only born Son to earth. I read all the Bible verses you give me. Please read this one bible verse and be honest with the bible and comment on this bible verse the next time you write me. You'll clearly see that John believe Jesus was God's literal Son."By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him." 1st John 4:9 New American Standard Bible

 

[glorydaz]

The Word "was God" but the Word was not "the God" who he was with. John differentiated the two Divine beings because John had never heard of a trinity. John believed that God had an only Born Son with Him in heaven before He sent that only born Son to earth. I read all the Bible verses you give me. Please read this one bible verse and be honest with the bible and comment on this bible verse the next time you write me. You'll clearly see that John believe Jesus was God's literal Son."By this the love of God was manifested in us, that God has sent His only begotten Son into the world so that we might live through Him." 1st John 4:9 New American Standard Bible

John 1 is very clear...you should use the Holy Spirit for a translator instead of seeking to prove Jesus isn't God by printing out the Greek. John did know that Jesus was God come in the flesh. He made that clear in all of his writings.

The saints in the OT knew there was only One God. It wasn't until God came in the flesh in the form of a man that the Son of God was begotten. Jesus was fully divine (fully God) and fully man while here on earth. When the Spirit of God came unto Mary, the Son was begotten. God was manifest in the flesh. If you think God begat Jesus in the same way man begets a son then you are limiting God to your own understanding. Jesus, himself, says He is the Alpha and the Omega...the great I AM. There are not two great I AM's because there is only One God.

Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Now...how about you address this verse...and the fact that Jesus is called Emmanuel (God with us).

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

 

[glorydaz]

Jesus died completely body and soul for us and he was unconsciously sleeping until His Father woke Him up.

There is no scripture that says Jesus was unconscious while in the grave, but there are verses that tell us he was still fully God when His body died.

Jesus had a body, soul, and spirit just like we do. He wasn't "sleeping unconsciously" until the Father woke him up. He descended into Hades and preached to the captives there...all those OT saints who had been waiting for Him. They rejoiced to see His day.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The "form" of God is Spirit. Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

When Jesus died (in the flesh) he returned to the glory He'd had before the world was. The Word was God. He was God from the beginning...the son that was born was the Almighty God and everlasting Father.

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Christ was the "image" of God...what we could see with our eyes.

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus is the "brightness of his glory" and the "express image of his person".

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

 

[SonByAdoption]

Jesus died completely body and soul for us and he was unconsciously sleeping until His Father woke Him up.

There is no scripture that says Jesus was unconscious while in the grave, but there are verses that tell us he was still fully God when His body died.

Jesus had a body, soul, and spirit just like we do. He wasn't "sleeping unconsciously" until the Father woke him up. He descended into Hades and preached to the captives there...all those OT saints who had been waiting for Him. They rejoiced to see His day.

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

The "form" of God is Spirit. Jesus was the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

When Jesus died (in the flesh) he returned to the glory He'd had before the world was. The Word was God. He was God from the beginning...the son that was born was the Almighty God and everlasting Father.
[quote="John 17:5":1v9ot16x] And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

Christ was the "image" of God...what we could see with our eyes.

In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Jesus is the "brightness of his glory" and the "express image of his person".

Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

[/quote:1v9ot16x]

Immortal soul is a false concept that robs me of my Christianity. If I don't believe in death than how can I believe that Christ died for me. I forgot you don't even know what happens when a normal person dies so how could you possibly know what happened when Christ died. If you ever get some free time go to google search and type in Jews and the immortality of the soul and find out that Jews including Jesus and his disciples did not believe in a soul's immortality.jewishencyclopedia.com is a good start. That is greek thought that you believe in/Platoism and not Jewish thought.

I only quoted you one single simple Bible verse and I asked you to please read this one verse and please comment on it the next time you wrote me. 1st John 4:9. Please do that.

It would be my absolute pleasure to go over and counter every single one of the points that you made and comment on every single scripture you used which I have done many times in the past but you in turn say that I am trying to lecture you even though all I'm doing is thoroughly answering your post. Then after I spent hours making my post to you, you turn around and don't answer hardly any of my points or comment on any of my scriptures so let's take this one a time.Because why should I write you a long one if you won't even read a short one. Please read 1 John 4:9 and tell me if John believes that Jesus was "God's only born Son" before or after he came into the world?

 

[LaCrum]

So, regardless of whether you think you have some private Jesus who gave up His immortality just for you, the Word is clear Jesus is God and is still God today. The days of His flesh are past, and He has returned to glory.

I don't know if I completely agree with this.

I believe Christ has a body now much like we will have after the Resurrection. He is God but he is not God the Father. It's not like when he went back up to Heaven he just melded back into the Father. He sits at the Father's right hand in his glorified body. Not only that, on this body I believe he will eternally bear the scars from the cross.

 

[glorydaz]

It would be my absolute pleasure to go over and counter every single one of the points that you made and comment on every single scripture you used which I have done many times in the past but you in turn say that I am trying to lecture you even though all I'm doing is thoroughly answering your post. Then after I spent hours making my post to you, you turn around and don't answer hardly any of my points or comment on any of my scriptures so let's take this one a time.Because why should I write you a long one if you won't even read a short one. Please read 1 John 4:9 and tell me if John believes that Jesus was "God's only born Son" before or after he came into the world?

To understand that verse, you need to look up...(in more ways than one) to verse 2.
We see John understands very well that Jesus was begotten by God when He came "in the flesh".

2Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: .... 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

John believes that Jesus was with God and was God from the beginning, as he states clearly in John 1.
Notice how he says "all things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. This is clearly speaking of the Word (Jesus) being the Creator. Which, btw, is why I asked you to address the verse I gave from Isaiah which very clearly says, the son is also called the Mighty God and Eternal Father. You won't address that, however....Why?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life;

John knew who the "I AM" was before Abraham was...

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.

John sees that Jesus is God and "was made flesh" and "dwelt among us". He says "in the bosom of the Father".

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth..... 18No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

There is a wealth of Scripture you will have to deny to hold onto your theory. I'll just keep presenting them until they are addressed.

Here's another one for you...the church of God...which He purchased "with His own blood".

Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.

When God "bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world"...this would be when the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. God says to the Son, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever." We see again the Word was from the beginning and laid the "foundation of the earth", and "thou art the same".

2Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;...6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him......8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom....10And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands: 11They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment; 12And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.

 

[glorydaz]

So, regardless of whether you think you have some private Jesus who gave up His immortality just for you, the Word is clear Jesus is God and is still God today. The days of His flesh are past, and He has returned to glory.

I don't know if I completely agree with this.

I believe Christ has a body now much like we will have after the Resurrection. He is God but he is not God the Father. It's not like when he went back up to Heaven he just melded back into the Father. He sits at the Father's right hand in his glorified body. Not only that, on this body I believe he will eternally bear the scars from the cross.

Hmmm...Jesus appeared however and wherever He wanted after He was resurrected, and was raised to the throne of Glory. I don't see that we can assume anything about how He appears in heaven since John's vision of Him in Rev. is quite clearly more in the form of the Almighty God. But we know we will be raised a spiritual body...as unlike this present body as a kernel of corn is to the plant.

John 1 tells us Jesus is the Word...the Word was with God and the Word was God....Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. It seems quite clear to me that He did "meld back" into the Father again...since He returned to His former glory.

What we can be sure of is that there is only one God. If you don't think Jesus is one manifestation of that One God, then He would have to be a separate God, and that certainly isn't the case. Some will try to say that Jesus gave up His immortality when He died on the cross. God cannot die...and He is but One. So will Jesus have a body in heaven separate from God? Not in my understanding of the Word.

We see they knew but One God in the OT...the rock, the redeemer...

For who is God, save the LORD? and who is a rock, save our God?

Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me. Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

The Son...The Mighty God and the "everlasting Father".

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

That all the people of the earth may know that the LORD is God, and that there is none else.

We know when our Lord was resurrected, He returned to the glory He had from the beginning. God did "straightway glorify" Him in Himself. That sounds pretty ONE to me.

Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.

When the last enemy death is delivered up to the Father, Christ will be "all in all" with God again. It seems clear from the Bible...the Word is God the eternal Father. While in the flesh, he was the Son of God....when the last enemy is defeated, His work as the Son will be done.

Here we see the risen Lord...it's not how the disciples saw Him, is it?

And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle. His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength. And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

 

[mamre]

But we know we will be raised a spiritual body...as unlike this present body as a kernel of corn is to the plant.

glorydaz,

What do you mean by "spiritual body?"

mamre

 

[lars55]

In John's description of the Lamb found in Revelation, who had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God (seven being the number of completeness or perfection), he is telling us that THE HOLY SPIRIT OF GOD IS THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST. There are several passages that make this quite clear. Unless one is to believe that there are two different Spirits, it should be a truth easy to come to.

In Romans 8:9-11, Paul uses the terms 'the Spirit of God' and 'the Spirit of Christ' as one.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the spirit is life because of righteousness.
But if the Spirit of Him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, He that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by His Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Notice that Paul says that we are 'in the Spirit', that is we walk in a new realm, the Spirit's realm, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Then he says if any man does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. The Spirit of God dwelling in you, and having the Spirit of Christ, is pointing to the walking in and having the same Spirit, the Holy Spirit of God. And Paul goes on to say, that this Spirit that dwells in you, is the same Spirit that raised Jesus from the dead. We have not received some cheaper version or stripped down model of the Holy Spirit. God has given us His Spirit, the same Spirit of holiness which raised Jesus mortal body unto immortality. Blessed be God forever!!

Gal. 4:6

And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Paul tells us that since we are sons, or inheriting children of the covenant and promise made to Abraham, He has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts. To cry 'abba', is a most intimate portrayal of the relationship between child and father. It is to cry with outstretched arms, Daddy! We share in this special relationship with God as 'daddy' because it is the Spirit of His Son in us crying out to Daddy, Father God. Have we received another Spirit besides the Holy Spirit of God into our hearts? No. The Spirit of God that came into our hearts at the moment of faith in the Son, is the same Spirit of the Son. It should be obvious that the Spirit of His Son, which was sent forth into our hearts, is the same Spirit come to dwell in us.

Eph. 4:4-6

There is One Body, and One Spirit, even as you are called in One Hope of your calling;
One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

This could be the earliest creed known. Notice that he says there is One Body, which is the Church, made up of believing Jews and Gentiles. There is ONE SPIRIT, which points to the fact that as mentioned in Scripture, the Spirit of God is synonymous with the Spirit of Christ, or the Spirit of Jesus. Also notice, that the One God and Father , is "in you all." We know that the Holy Spirit is that which dwells in the believer, and the Father dwells in the believer by His Spirit. Paul also states that "Christ dwells in your hearts by faith." So we have The Father, Christ, and the Holy Spirit dwelling in our hearts. This residence in the believer is accomplished through the One Holy Spirit.

Phil. 1:19

For I know that this shall turn to my salvation (deliverance) through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Here Paul speaks of the circumstance of his being in prison. He says that he believes that through prayer and the 'supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ', he shall be delivered. Is Paul looking for the supply of a spirit other than the Spirit of God? Of course not. He sees the prayer of the saints and the supply of the Spirit, which is the Spirit of Jesus, as being the means of his release from prison.

I Pet. 1:11

Searching what or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

Here, Peter tells us that the Spirit which operated in the prophets, who foretold the things concerning the sufferings and the glory of the Messiah, did so by the Spirit of Messiah. The Spirit of God, which came upon the prophets of old, was the Spirit of Christ. The Spirit of God which spoke of the things concerning the Messiah, was the Spirit of Messiah. Which leads us to one last passage to look at.

John 14-16

1. 14:16-18 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that He may abide with you for ever. Even the Spirit of Truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him; but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
2. 14:26 But the comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
3. 16:13-15 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of Truth is come, he will guide you into all truth; for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, shall he speak; and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine; therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.



This 'comforter', or helper, that will come to abide with us forever, is the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is also called the Spirit of Truth. Before this statement, Jesus just told his disciples that HE IS THE TRUTH. If He is the Truth, then it only stands to reason that the Spirit of Truth is the Spirit of Jesus, who is the Truth. It is for this reason that the Spirit, when He is come, will not speak of himself, but will glorify Jesus. All things that belong to the Father, belong to Jesus (16:15). The Spirit who comes as another Helper [of the same kind], will speak of the things of Jesus, and will glorify Jesus. The whole of the Godhead points to Jesus the Messiah, for in him dwells the fulness of the Godhead in bodily form.

Jesus promised them that he would not leave them as orphans, that is helpless and defenseless. He says, "I will come to you". This is not a reference to His physical second coming, but is His assurance of the coming of the Spirit, which was with them, and that shall be in them.

When Jesus said, "for he dwells with you", the word dwells in the gospels almost exclusively refers to location. He is living, abiding, dwelling with them at that moment. He then tells them that the One who is presently living with them, "shall be IN them". Jesus then makes his point all the more clear. He says, "I will not leave you orphans (alone and helpless), I will come to you".

Jesus equates the coming of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, with His coming to them. This is how Christ dwells in our hearts by faith. He dwells in our hearts by the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit is His Spirit. It is Him. Glory!!

Even the ancient Rabbis equated the Spirit of God, with the Spirit of Messiah. Note the following quote.
Rabbi Shim'on ben Levi explained:

"and the spirit of God hovered over the face of the waters" (Gen. 1:2), this is the spirit of King Messiah, as it is written, And the spirit of the Lord will rest upon him. By what merit will it [the Spirit of Messiah] come? . . .By the merit of repentance."1

So what is our point here? It is this. That in the Scriptures, when we see the Spirit of God, Holy Spirit (or Ghost, which is a most unfortunate translation), or the Spirit of Christ, it is referring to the same Spirit. The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ, because Jesus the Messiah is God.

1 Patai, Raphael. The Messiah Texts. (Detroit: Wayne State University Press, 1979), 19.

 

[elijah23]

I forget if I asked this before, so I'll put it up.

Is the holy Spirit the Spirit of Christ?

1Pe 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.

2Pe 1:20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of scripture is of private interpretation.
2Pe 1:21 For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but men spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit.

Peter equates the holy Spirit and the Spirit of Christ as the same thing that the prophets prophesied from.

That would make the trinity:
Father
Son (the flesh and blood person (Jesus))
Holy Spirit (the Spirit of Christ (which existed before Jesus the man))

Is that right??

I would say, yes, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ, and here is why:

I think there is one God. When God speaks to us, we know him as the Holy Spirit. When he walked the earth in a human body to teach and be crucified, he was Jesus Christ.