Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[jaybo]

I did note a differentiation between "Jews" and "Jews that believe in Jesus Christ".
If you can't tell there is a difference between the two, what good is there in being a Christian?

I don't understand what you're saying. Do you really think that there is no use in being a Christian if one can't differentiate between Jews who believe in Jesus Christ and those Jews who don't? Really??

One is either a Jew or a Gentile. Believing in Jesus Christ is not the difference, as one can believe in Jesus Christ or not regardless of ethnicity. Do you know of the existence of atheist Gentiles?

 

[Hopeful]

Can I ask you a question JLB, What Law did God etch on minds and hearts of all people according to His own declaration/ revelation in Jeremiah 31:33 and Hebrews 10:16? The Law of Moses ?

It is written..."Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ." (Gal 6:2)
There is also this from James..."But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed." (James 1:25)

The law of Christ is this...Love God with all your strength and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[Hopeful]

I don't understand what you're saying. Do you really think that there is no use in being a Christian if one can't differentiate between Jews who believe in Jesus Christ and those Jews who don't? Really??

You misunderstood.
If one cannot tell the difference between Jewish unbelievers and Christians, they are obviously unfamiliar with Christianity.

One is either a Jew or a Gentile. Believing in Jesus Christ is not the difference, as one can believe in Jesus Christ or not regardless of ethnicity. Do you know of the existence of atheist Gentiles?

Being a Christian is like shining a spot light on the differences between unbelievers and believers, Jewish or otherwise.
Thanks to the Spirit of God, which is given only to the real believers

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Christ gave us His commandments on our heart and mind, not the law of Moses.


Did you know that Abraham learned His laws and commandments directly from Him, by walking with Him in His presence, the way God desired to teach mankind from the beginning, in the garden.

The way He desires to teach today.

But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 1 John 2:27



When He teaches us directly, we receive His instruction with faith and with grace. Grace is the power to do what He says. Grace is His Spirit, the Spirit of Grace.


But this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My law in their minds, and write it on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them, says the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.” Jeremiah 31:33-34

• No more shall every man teach his neighbor, and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they all shall know Me,

JLB

JLB you write well but sometimes you write without pertaining/ relevant scriptural quotations. I did not see anywhere you commenting on what Jesus spoke about the eternal structure and nature of the Law .
Let us examine what Jesus says in Matthew 5:17-18 ,( and repeats in Luke 16: 17)

For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.( Matthew 5:18)

What Jesus is saying in Matthew 5 :18 ( using the Phrase "truly I tell you ") , that the Universe itself has to go first BEFORE the Law can go . Law outlives the Universe.
Question is do we believe in Jesus or not . When he is making abundantly clear that the Law of God just cannot go.
You quoted Luke 16:16 , but I believe we have to read it along with the immediately following verse to fully understand what the Lord wanted to teach.
Let us read Luke 16:16 along with the immediately following verse Luke 16:17
God. 16The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. 17But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law
You can see Jesus is making absolutely sure we all get the point that God's Law just cannot go .

So brother JLB, do you accept what Christ is saying, or not ? If you accept then this debate should end and every Christian must accept what Jesus is teaching : That the Law of God is forever and ever. Just as Psalms 19: 9-11 says and the entire Psalms 119 is dedicated to extolling the virtues of the Law and it's perennial nature . Check Psalm119
Though the Law can never go, Christ taught us it can be fully obeyed through practicing Loving kindness. This Jesus repeatedly taught
Check Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28. That was also the sole metric ( Works of Loving--kindness) He will use to condemn or save warns the Christ on the day of judgement He showed us in Matthew 25:31-46
Jesus didn't kill the Law( Matthew 5:17) but instead He taught us HOW to obey it in its entirety.
I do not simply understand why we don't get it?

Also, Jesus warns us through a powerful caveat of condemnation in Matthew 7: 21-23 that whoever breaks God's Laws stands condemned
These are His words in Matthew 7:23 (NLT)" But I ( Jesus) will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

Don't rely too much on what the Pharisee taught JLB . He is the one who crucified God's Eternal Law on the Cross of Christ ( Check Colossians 2:14)

I'll juxtapose what Jesus says in Matthew 5:17 with what Paul says in Ephesians 2:15. Compare the two:

Jesus in Matthew 5:17: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Paul in Ephesians 2:15 "By abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace"
As you can see a direct contradiction in the two statements . A prudent advice guys ( who are reading this). Always choose Christ over subordinates like Paul when such contradictions appear.
Here's why ( Check John 13:16)
Also remember friends , Paul makes an alarming statement ( which is ironically a favorite of Churches, and they teach it every week)
" We are not under Law , but Grace " ( Romans 6:14)
As we just learned from above verses of Christ The Law of God ( dubbed Moses' Law) simply cannot go, and Jesus never ever uttered the word Grace, leave alone teaching it! Wonder who taught Paul to teach that?
Last but not least we should remember Paul's following words , which I call Paulie's cute words of confession in 2 Corinthians 12:16
"But be that as it may, I did not burden you myself; nevertheless, crafty fellow that I ( Paul) am, I took you in by deception"
I say a loud Amen! to Paul's words!
( I tried to make the post light on purpose, but the topic is really serious guys. Seriously serious. )

"

 

[JLB]

JLB you write well but sometimes you write without pertaining/ relevant scriptural quotations. I did not see anywhere you commenting on what Jesus spoke about the eternal structure and nature of the Law .

I don’t see where you asked about the “eternal structure and nature of the Law”.

I responded to post #37 and 38.


What “Law” are you referring to ?

• The Law or Torah; first five books of the Bible?
• The law of sin and death; that took place in the garden?
• The law of Moses; that was added after the children of Israel left Egypt?
• The law that He put in our hearts in the New Covenant?
• The Law of faith?

JLB

 

[JLB]

You can see Jesus is making absolutely sure we all get the point that God's Law just cannot go .

So brother JLB, do you accept what Christ is saying, or not ?

It’s important to understand all the words that Jesus spoke about a certain subject.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Nothing would pass from the law until it is fulfilled.


Do you believe Jesus when He said He came to fulfill the law?


By saying “until” the Lord is indicating the law was temporary; remaining until it’s purpose was fulfilled by Christ.





JLB

 

[JLB]

Paul in Ephesians 2:15 "By abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace"
As you can see a direct contradiction in the two statements . A prudent advice guys ( who are reading this). Always choose Christ over subordinates like Paul when such contradictions appear.
Here's why ( Check John 13:16)

What contradiction are you referring to?


Both Jesus and Paul indicated the law was always going to be temporary.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19



Did Jesus fulfill the law?






JLB

 

[Truthfrees]

Though keeping the Law of Moses is now possible for those reborn of Godly seed, those who walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh; it no longer serves its initial purpose of keeping His people apart from the "unclean" world.

that wasn't the initial purpose - God's laws to moses or anyone at anytime were to walk holy as God is holy - the depraved lifestyle is a stench to God

also non-jews who wanted to honor God and follow Him closely were allowed in - so God's laws were for anyone who wanted to follow God's holy instructions to treat God man and this planet the way God instructs

 

[jaybo]

that wasn't the initial purpose - God's laws to moses or anyone at anytime were to walk holy as God is holy - the depraved lifestyle is a stench to God

also non-jews who wanted to honor God and follow Him closely were allowed in - so God's laws were for anyone who wanted to follow God's holy instructions to treat God man and this planet the way God instructs

I agree that God's laws were for anyone who wanted to follow God's holy instructions. Of course, the OT laws were replaced by the Holy Spirit, whose purpose is to guide us into all truth.

 

[Hopeful]

that wasn't the initial purpose - God's laws to moses or anyone at anytime were to walk holy as God is holy - the depraved lifestyle is a stench to God

also non-jews who wanted to honor God and follow Him closely were allowed in - so God's laws were for anyone who wanted to follow God's holy instructions to treat God man and this planet the way God instructs

I thank God that all men can now follow God's holy instructions.
That we can be as holy as He is.
That summarized with...Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

 

[Truthfrees]

That summarized with...Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

exactly - it is summarized as you said

conversely it is clarified and expanded and made clear by understanding the initial detailed instruction

that is all i am saying - what does love God and love your neighbor look like? - see the detailed initial instruction for that if you wish - or not if you don't wish - it's each person's choice

but do it for love of God and his word - not for salvation

 

[JLB]

I thank God that all men can now follow God's holy instructions.
That we can be as holy as He is.
That summarized with...Love God above all else and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

This is true.


Amen.

 

[JLB]

but do it for love of God and his word - not for salvation

Love has everything to do with salvation.


Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him. 1 John 3:15

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

What contradiction are you referring to?


Both Jesus and Paul indicated the law was always going to be temporary.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19



Did Jesus fulfill the law?






JLB

I will try to answer all three of your Posts JLB
Let us begin with the Five “LAWS” you quoted .

Well the LAW I am talking about is the one FATHER GOD gave and WROTE with His finger on the two tablets of stone that he gave to Moses his servant who HANDED the two tablets containing the Law of god WITHOUT touching even one thing written on those tablets ( Deuteronomy 9:10).

This then was and is the eternal law of God. By the end of this post---- with the pertaining verses--- hopefully we will understand that LAW OF GOD IS ETERNAL and just .cannot .go!

Whatever law and commandments was written by God on those two tablets and handed over to the Israelites can never go

Nobody in the Universe dare get rid of it. Did you know JLB not even the Son of God has the right to even TOUCH Gods Law? And that’s PRECISELY what the Obedient-to- death Son of God taught. Before we go to that let us examine what Father GOD says about HIS Law :

Deuteronomy 9:10 The LORD gave me ( Moses) two stone tablets inscribed ( written) by the finger of God. On them were all the commandments the LORD proclaimed to you, on the mountain out of the fire, on the day of the assembly.

( whatever these commandments were JLB, they stand written on our minds and Hearts today since Father God TRANSFERRED the same LAW and COMMANDMENTS HE WROTE on the tablets of stone to the TABLETS of human hearts and human minds

Jeremiah 31:33-34, Hebrews 10:16

³³"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.



So the SAME Law given by FATHER GOD on the Mount of Sinai stands WRITTEN By His ( GOD’S FINGER ) on human minds and hearts AT THIS VERY MOMENT



And He



³⁴No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

This FATHER GOD did so that WHOEVER DOES NOT OBEY THE LAW IN ITS ENTIRELY IS WITHOUT EXCUSE—because The Law as WRITTEN on their minds and hearts. PLUS the written LAW gives every human an opportunity to LEARN WHO GOD IS AND WHAT HIS EXPECTATIONS FROM HUMANS ARE.

If JLB you are trying to say every human who has the Law written on their minds is NOW SAVED because they KNOW the Lord GOD is not what father God is saying—else every human no matter how sinful they are , are now saved because Law stands written on their minds and hearts!. Nope that’s NOT what Father God is saying . He is in fact giving All people an EQUAL and FAIR opportunity all people to LEARN/ KNOW about Him that they OBEY the Laws He put on their minds and hearts and therefore be saved on the day of judgment.

Lest you think otherwise, let’s quickly examine what the Son is saying in Matthew 7:21-23

“ whoever breaks Father Gods Laws stands condemned

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

What contradiction are you referring to?


Both Jesus and Paul indicated the law was always going to be temporary.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19



Did Jesus fulfill the law?






JLB

-------- continued from my previous post-- could not place everything because of words count restrictions --- I also apologize for the spellings and typos. it was a very long and extremely important post for me. Please excuse me for the same. will request focus on the content of the post

Par ▾

21“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.
22On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

(Be careful JLB on judgment day all GOD’S LAW BREAKERS WERE CONDEMNED by none other than Christ himself – reveals the Lord Jesus)

Now let us diligently examine what the Scriptures say about the ETERNAL STRUCTURE AND PERENNIAL NATURE OF THE LAW and you will soon find out why its not me who defines these lofty rules and Laws. I’m nothing JLB. Absolutely nothing. But, I scan and examine the Word minutely… objectively and impartially.
These are the verses which tell us the Law of father God just cannot go. Its eternal perennial, imperishable and indestructible irreplaceable.
Let us read what the Man after Gods heart David says about the eternal structure of the Law of God ( these are David’s words not mine JLB lest you be mad at me)

• The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts( commandments) are trustworthy. They are established for ever and ever, enacted ( OBEYED/ IMPLEMENTED) in faithfulness and uprightness. (Psalms 111:7-8)
• God’s Laws are PURE, ETERNAL, JUST.
• They are more desirable than gold. They are sweeter than honey dripping from a honeycomb. For they warn us away from harm and give success to those who obey them.( Psalm 19:9-11)
• 
  
• All your words are true ( God); all your righteous laws are ETERNAL.

So you see JLB , UNLESS David was making a monumental blunder God’s law stand forever and ever . and that “Forever and Forever” is EVEN, AND WAY AFTER, MESSIAH COMES
Let us now MINUTELY examine what the Savior Christ Jesus spoke about the Law and its DURATION
Jesus declares in Matthew 5:17-18 7Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. And then Jesus proceeds to issue a warning/ caveat
“For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
You pointed out that Jesus says in Matthew 5:18 is Law stands until “ everything is accomplished” and therefore the eternal law of God as declared by father and David are TEMPORARY . But JLB you did NOT explain WHERE does Jesus say by dying on the Cross He is doing away with the Law?
Are YOU assuming it? Give me WHERE Jesus says by dying on the Cross the Law is now dead? Can we have Christ’s words on this, please?
Do you know if you present this argument in any court of law, the opposition lawyer will object "assumes facts, not in evidence". “ "calls for Speculation!"). Just because someone believes the Law is dead by Jesus dying on the Cross, does not mean Jesus taught that.
Tell me WHERE Jesus says Law is done with my death on Cross?

In fact the Christ is saying Not the least portion of Law can ever go “ unless everything is accomplished” . What is everything ? You pointed out that Law is temporary because Jesus says “ until “For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished You pointed out Law is there UNTIL everything is accomplished. But you forgot what Jesus says BEFORE that second “until” Let us examine what He says : , until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished So you forgot until heaven and earth pass –which means this: “ the entire universe can crash burn and disappear , but the Law of father God can JUST NOT GO” Lest you reject my interpretation, let me produce for you what Good News Translation says ( Matthew 5:18) “Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with--not until the end of all things. GOD'S WORD® Translation ( Matthew 5:18) I ( Jesus) can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

Even assuming you are right and all these translations are wrong, WHY is Jesus saying much later THESE following words much later on:
Matthew 22:37-40 and Matthew 7:12 where
He is teaching us HOW to fulfill the entire OBEDIENCE requirement of the Law
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
If the Law is temporary and Gone WHY is Jesus teaching us HOW to obey it in its entirety!( And WHY is David Calling the Law, eternal and Perennial? )

And yet again the Lord repeats same message in different words in
Matthew 7:12… WHY?
“ So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Question to you is if law is temporary and dead/ or lays FULFILLED as you say WHY is Jesus teaching us WHAT will enable us to satisfy the OBEDIENCE REQUIREMENT OF THE LAW?

Did you know JLB , NOBODY in the Universe may dare touch God’s eternal Law leave alone abolishing it. Not even the Son of God, who repeatedly says He came ( only) to DO THE WILL of father God (and not to abolish His eternal Law) . the Son of God is also called the servant by the father Himself in Matthew 12:18
“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.”

Jesus confirms this in John 6:38 and several other places! ►

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me.

Let us now examine what you say about Paul and Jesus saying the same thing about Fulfilling and Abolishing of the Law . You claimed both are saying the same thing! That is Abolishing The Law is the same as Fulfilling the Law!
This is the opposite of what you claimed JLB

Please show me ONE dictionary where ABOLISHING means FULFILLING.
In a bid to perfect the doctrine of Paul please do not share falsehood/ untruth brother. Else explain HOW Abolishing and Fulfilling are the same?
You know what brother its Sherlock Holmes ( Arthur Conan Doyle) who explains the reason for the phenomenon that’s taking place!
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts” (Sherlock Holmes)
That’s precisely WE ALL did…. Everything was changed to suit the doctrine of one man. Even Abolishing became the same as Fulfilling .
I invite your comments on this JLB.

I’ll give short story, an analogy, to enable you to understand the dramatic difference between two words
Once upon a time a king called Henry ruled a country. One day moved at the plight of the people he promulgated a LAW that all people must be fed one meal FREE every day. And so it was. Every human was fed every day until he died and His cruel son Rufus became the king, and who had no feelings for his subjects like his dad. He ABOLISHED the Law of his father and after that day no man was fed free. Many died as a result of the famine and poverty; This kept happening until this the kingdom of the cruel king was attacked and a righteous and compassionate King took over the reins of the kingdom. He ordered that the earlier law of King Henry be reinstated and all its requirement of feeding the people FULFILLED.

I wrote this short story an analogy for you to consider JLB.
Fulfillment means to implement/ carry out while abolishing means to get rid of --- a dramatic/ radical difference in the two.

Now please explain HOW did Paul ABOLISH the eternal perennial law of God as he claims in Ephesians 2:15 , not to mention How he claimed the perennial eternal law of god now stands CRUCIFIED on the cross of Christ in Colossians 2:14?
Will the Father be happy with what’s going on here—that we call His eternal law dead, crucified, abolished?

----------Concluding in the next post ----------------

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

What contradiction are you referring to?


Both Jesus and Paul indicated the law was always going to be temporary.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
Galatians 3:19



Did Jesus fulfill the law?






JLB

FINAL PART of the 3 part post--- sorry for the long post , but it has much to consider ----

Finally , I implore you bother to not bet too heavy on the man who crucified the eternal LAW OF God ( Colossians 2:14), abolished it ( Ephesians 2:15), committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit of God (Mark 3:29, 1Timothy 1:13 ), called himself “Crafty and deceiver“ (2 Corinthians 12:16) and condemned Peter, the rock of Christ (Matt. 16:18) and called him a hypocrite (Galatians 2:11-13) .
Also think why Jesus never taught or even pronounced the word GRACE and WHY did He ( Jesus ) use WORKS of Loving Kindness on the day of judgment ( Matthew 25:31-46) to save or condemn ( exactly as He taught in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12) … no other criterion or metric will be used on the day of judgment but WHAT the Christ taught –we can be sure of that because of what He reveals in Luke 21:33 , Matthew 24:35)
Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. … Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away
Ending with a plea and imploration: Consider all this I wrote JLB. You are a man of deep Biblical knowledge. We both love the Lord, BUT our interpretations of the Word differ significantly and substantially.
If you wish to take this further, I would request we start analyzing words of Christ verse by verse (even word by word) on WHY the Law of God cannot ever go. I wrote this long post to explain what the doctrine is, of Father God and Son as I see/ read it. If you do not agree with what is written here, please explain where all are your disagreements, and let us go verse by verse of Jesus Christ.

 

[JLB]

Well the LAW I am talking about is the one FATHER GOD gave and WROTE with His finger on the two tablets of stone that he gave to Moses his servant who HANDED the two tablets containing the Law of god WITHOUT touching even one thing written on those tablets ( Deuteronomy 9:10).

So you are referring to the law of Moses.


Ok, what about the law of Moses?

 

[JLB]

This then was and is the eternal law of God. By the end of this post---- with the pertaining verses--- hopefully we will understand that LAW OF GOD IS ETERNAL and just .cannot .go!

I never said that the commandments were to go.

You have me mixed up with someone else.


Is this how you believe the Church under the New Covenant is to observe the Sabbath?

Please answer with yes or no?

Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30


And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3


Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering. Numbers 28:9-10


JLB

 

[JLB]

-------- continued from my previous post-- could not place everything because of words count restrictions --- I also apologize for the spellings and typos. it was a very long and extremely important post for me. Please excuse me for the same. will request focus on the content of the post

Par ▾

21“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter.
22On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ 23But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’

(Be careful JLB on judgment day all GOD’S LAW BREAKERS WERE CONDEMNED by none other than Christ himself – reveals the Lord Jesus)

Now let us diligently examine what the Scriptures say about the ETERNAL STRUCTURE AND PERENNIAL NATURE OF THE LAW and you will soon find out why its not me who defines these lofty rules and Laws. I’m nothing JLB. Absolutely nothing. But, I scan and examine the Word minutely… objectively and impartially.
These are the verses which tell us the Law of father God just cannot go. Its eternal perennial, imperishable and indestructible irreplaceable.
Let us read what the Man after Gods heart David says about the eternal structure of the Law of God ( these are David’s words not mine JLB lest you be mad at me)

• The works of his hands are faithful and just; all his precepts( commandments) are trustworthy. They are established for ever and ever, enacted ( OBEYED/ IMPLEMENTED) in faithfulness and uprightness. (Psalms 111:7-8)
• God’s Laws are PURE, ETERNAL, JUST.
• They are more desirable than gold. They are sweeter than honey dripping from a honeycomb. For they warn us away from harm and give success to those who obey them.( Psalm 19:9-11)
• 
  
• All your words are true ( God); all your righteous laws are ETERNAL.

So you see JLB , UNLESS David was making a monumental blunder God’s law stand forever and ever . and that “Forever and Forever” is EVEN, AND WAY AFTER, MESSIAH COMES
Let us now MINUTELY examine what the Savior Christ Jesus spoke about the Law and its DURATION
Jesus declares in Matthew 5:17-18 7Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have not come to abolish them, but to fulfill them. And then Jesus proceeds to issue a warning/ caveat
“For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.”
You pointed out that Jesus says in Matthew 5:18 is Law stands until “ everything is accomplished” and therefore the eternal law of God as declared by father and David are TEMPORARY . But JLB you did NOT explain WHERE does Jesus say by dying on the Cross He is doing away with the Law?
Are YOU assuming it? Give me WHERE Jesus says by dying on the Cross the Law is now dead? Can we have Christ’s words on this, please?
Do you know if you present this argument in any court of law, the opposition lawyer will object "assumes facts, not in evidence". “ "calls for Speculation!"). Just because someone believes the Law is dead by Jesus dying on the Cross, does not mean Jesus taught that.
Tell me WHERE Jesus says Law is done with my death on Cross?

​

In fact the Christ is saying Not the least portion of Law can ever go “ unless everything is accomplished” . What is everything ? You pointed out that Law is temporary because Jesus says “ until “For I tell you truly, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished You pointed out Law is there UNTIL everything is accomplished. But you forgot what Jesus says BEFORE that second “until” Let us examine what He says : , until heaven and earth pass away, not a single jot, not a stroke of a pen, will disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished So you forgot until heaven and earth pass –which means this: “ the entire universe can crash burn and disappear , but the Law of father God can JUST NOT GO” Lest you reject my interpretation, let me produce for you what Good News Translation says ( Matthew 5:18) “Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be done away with--not until the end of all things. GOD'S WORD® Translation ( Matthew 5:18) I ( Jesus) can guarantee this truth: Until the earth and the heavens disappear, neither a period nor a comma will disappear from Moses' Teachings before everything has come true.

Even assuming you are right and all these translations are wrong, WHY is Jesus saying much later THESE following words much later on:
Matthew 22:37-40 and Matthew 7:12 where
He is teaching us HOW to fulfill the entire OBEDIENCE requirement of the Law
Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
If the Law is temporary and Gone WHY is Jesus teaching us HOW to obey it in its entirety!( And WHY is David Calling the Law, eternal and Perennial? )

And yet again the Lord repeats same message in different words in
Matthew 7:12… WHY?
“ So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Question to you is if law is temporary and dead/ or lays FULFILLED as you say WHY is Jesus teaching us WHAT will enable us to satisfy the OBEDIENCE REQUIREMENT OF THE LAW?

Did you know JLB , NOBODY in the Universe may dare touch God’s eternal Law leave alone abolishing it. Not even the Son of God, who repeatedly says He came ( only) to DO THE WILL of father God (and not to abolish His eternal Law) . the Son of God is also called the servant by the father Himself in Matthew 12:18
“Here is my servant whom I have chosen,
the one I love, in whom I delight;
I will put my Spirit on him,
and he will proclaim justice to the nations.”

Jesus confirms this in John 6:38 and several other places! ►

For I have come down from heaven not to do my will, but to do the will of him who sent me.

Let us now examine what you say about Paul and Jesus saying the same thing about Fulfilling and Abolishing of the Law . You claimed both are saying the same thing! That is Abolishing The Law is the same as Fulfilling the Law!
This is the opposite of what you claimed JLB

Please show me ONE dictionary where ABOLISHING means FULFILLING.
In a bid to perfect the doctrine of Paul please do not share falsehood/ untruth brother. Else explain HOW Abolishing and Fulfilling are the same?
You know what brother its Sherlock Holmes ( Arthur Conan Doyle) who explains the reason for the phenomenon that’s taking place!
“It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts” (Sherlock Holmes)
That’s precisely WE ALL did…. Everything was changed to suit the doctrine of one man. Even Abolishing became the same as Fulfilling .
I invite your comments on this JLB.

I’ll give short story, an analogy, to enable you to understand the dramatic difference between two words
Once upon a time a king called Henry ruled a country. One day moved at the plight of the people he promulgated a LAW that all people must be fed one meal FREE every day. And so it was. Every human was fed every day until he died and His cruel son Rufus became the king, and who had no feelings for his subjects like his dad. He ABOLISHED the Law of his father and after that day no man was fed free. Many died as a result of the famine and poverty; This kept happening until this the kingdom of the cruel king was attacked and a righteous and compassionate King took over the reins of the kingdom. He ordered that the earlier law of King Henry be reinstated and all its requirement of feeding the people FULFILLED.

I wrote this short story an analogy for you to consider JLB.
Fulfillment means to implement/ carry out while abolishing means to get rid of --- a dramatic/ radical difference in the two.

Now please explain HOW did Paul ABOLISH the eternal perennial law of God as he claims in Ephesians 2:15 , not to mention How he claimed the perennial eternal law of god now stands CRUCIFIED on the cross of Christ in Colossians 2:14?
Will the Father be happy with what’s going on here—that we call His eternal law dead, crucified, abolished?

----------Concluding in the next post ----------------

Do you sacrifice animals for your sins?






JLB

 

[JLB]

FINAL PART of the 3 part post--- sorry for the long post , but it has much to consider ----

Finally , I implore you bother to not bet too heavy on the man who crucified the eternal LAW OF God ( Colossians 2:14), abolished it ( Ephesians 2:15), committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit of God (Mark 3:29, 1Timothy 1:13 ), called himself “Crafty and deceiver“ (2 Corinthians 12:16) and condemned Peter, the rock of Christ (Matt. 16:18) and called him a hypocrite (Galatians 2:11-13) .
Also think why Jesus never taught or even pronounced the word GRACE and WHY did He ( Jesus ) use WORKS of Loving Kindness on the day of judgment ( Matthew 25:31-46) to save or condemn ( exactly as He taught in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12) … no other criterion or metric will be used on the day of judgment but WHAT the Christ taught –we can be sure of that because of what He reveals in Luke 21:33 , Matthew 24:35)
Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. … Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away
Ending with a plea and imploration: Consider all this I wrote JLB. You are a man of deep Biblical knowledge. We both love the Lord, BUT our interpretations of the Word differ significantly and substantially.
If you wish to take this further, I would request we start analyzing words of Christ verse by verse (even word by word) on WHY the Law of God cannot ever go. I wrote this long post to explain what the doctrine is, of Father God and Son as I see/ read it. If you do not agree with what is written here, please explain where all are your disagreements, and let us go verse by verse of Jesus Christ.

Is this how your congregation deals with someone who commits adultery?


The man who commits adultery with another man’s wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor’s wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death. Leviticus 20:10





JLB