Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[jaybo]

FINAL PART of the 3 part post--- sorry for the long post , but it has much to consider ----

Finally , I implore you bother to not bet too heavy on the man who crucified the eternal LAW OF God ( Colossians 2:14), abolished it ( Ephesians 2:15), committed the unforgivable sin of blaspheming the Spirit of God (Mark 3:29, 1Timothy 1:13 ), called himself “Crafty and deceiver“ (2 Corinthians 12:16) and condemned Peter, the rock of Christ (Matt. 16:18) and called him a hypocrite (Galatians 2:11-13) .
Also think why Jesus never taught or even pronounced the word GRACE and WHY did He ( Jesus ) use WORKS of Loving Kindness on the day of judgment ( Matthew 25:31-46) to save or condemn ( exactly as He taught in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12) … no other criterion or metric will be used on the day of judgment but WHAT the Christ taught –we can be sure of that because of what He reveals in Luke 21:33 , Matthew 24:35)
Heaven and earth will disappear, but my words will never disappear. … Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away
Ending with a plea and imploration: Consider all this I wrote JLB. You are a man of deep Biblical knowledge. We both love the Lord, BUT our interpretations of the Word differ significantly and substantially.
If you wish to take this further, I would request we start analyzing words of Christ verse by verse (even word by word) on WHY the Law of God cannot ever go. I wrote this long post to explain what the doctrine is, of Father God and Son as I see/ read it. If you do not agree with what is written here, please explain where all are your disagreements, and let us go verse by verse of Jesus Christ.

Don't you mean too much to consider? Your 3-part post is way too long.

Try reading what Paul wrote to the Galatians about keeping the OT law if you consider yourself a Christian.

 

[Hopeful]

I will try to answer all three of your Posts JLB
Let us begin with the Five “LAWS” you quoted .

Well the LAW I am talking about is the one FATHER GOD gave and WROTE with His finger on the two tablets of stone that he gave to Moses his servant who HANDED the two tablets containing the Law of god WITHOUT touching even one thing written on those tablets ( Deuteronomy 9:10).

This then was and is the eternal law of God. By the end of this post---- with the pertaining verses--- hopefully we will understand that LAW OF GOD IS ETERNAL and just .cannot .go!

Whatever law and commandments was written by God on those two tablets and handed over to the Israelites can never go

Nobody in the Universe dare get rid of it. Did you know JLB not even the Son of God has the right to even TOUCH Gods Law? And that’s PRECISELY what the Obedient-to- death Son of God taught. Before we go to that let us examine what Father GOD says about HIS Law :

Deuteronomy 9:10 The LORD gave me ( Moses) two stone tablets inscribed ( written) by the finger of God. On them were all the commandments the LORD proclaimed to you, on the mountain out of the fire, on the day of the assembly.

( whatever these commandments were JLB, they stand written on our minds and Hearts today since Father God TRANSFERRED the same LAW and COMMANDMENTS HE WROTE on the tablets of stone to the TABLETS of human hearts and human minds

Jeremiah 31:33-34, Hebrews 10:16

³³"This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel after that time," declares the LORD. "I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.



So the SAME Law given by FATHER GOD on the Mount of Sinai stands WRITTEN By His ( GOD’S FINGER ) on human minds and hearts AT THIS VERY MOMENT



And He



³⁴No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,' because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest," declares the LORD. "For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more."

This FATHER GOD did so that WHOEVER DOES NOT OBEY THE LAW IN ITS ENTIRELY IS WITHOUT EXCUSE—because The Law as WRITTEN on their minds and hearts. PLUS the written LAW gives every human an opportunity to LEARN WHO GOD IS AND WHAT HIS EXPECTATIONS FROM HUMANS ARE.

If JLB you are trying to say every human who has the Law written on their minds is NOW SAVED because they KNOW the Lord GOD is not what father God is saying—else every human no matter how sinful they are , are now saved because Law stands written on their minds and hearts!. Nope that’s NOT what Father God is saying . He is in fact giving All people an EQUAL and FAIR opportunity all people to LEARN/ KNOW about Him that they OBEY the Laws He put on their minds and hearts and therefore be saved on the day of judgment.

Lest you think otherwise, let’s quickly examine what the Son is saying in Matthew 7:21-23

“ whoever breaks Father Gods Laws stands condemned

I am glad you made it clear that the "Law" that you refer to is the ten original commandments, and NOT all the customs of the Jewish faith.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I am glad you made it clear that the "Law" that you refer to is the ten original commandments, and NOT all the customs of the Jewish faith.

Yes Father God's handwritten Law are forever and exceed the life of the universe and all it's creations . ,That's what the Son also explained in no uncertain words in Matthew 5:17-18 and Luke 16:17. Psalms call it perennial, forever and ever , eternal pure, just, and sweeter than honey.
Psalms 19:9-11 , Psalms 119.
Jesus never got rid of the Law. He cannot, nobody can , and neither obedient to thebone taught us how to FULFILL the entire obedience requirement of the Law and the teachings of the prophets . It's was through Love.. Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28. And that was the only metric used on the day if judgement by the Messiah in Matthew 25:32-46. He revealed all this . Not me. I just point at His words. I'm trying very hard to explain this, but I'm facing fierce resistance from Churches. At some point I'll give up. We will yet have to face the judgment individually. I wish everyone very well and happiness. That being said
, Let the Lord's will be done. Nobody who breaks the Law escapes condemnation warns Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 . We the Church have gone a step ahead and destroyed the entire Law of God, calling it temporary and redundant. Hence I fear the fierce consequences.And hence I plead, but mostly unsuccessfully...Soon I'll give up trying.To each their own, and God for all ...

 

[Hopeful]

Yes Father God's handwritten Law are forever and exceed the life of the universe and all it's creations . ,That's what the Son also explained in no uncertain words in Matthew 5:17-18 and Luke 16:17. Psalms call it perennial, forever and ever , eternal pure, just, and sweeter than honey.
Psalms 19:9-11 , Psalms 119.
Jesus never got rid of the Law. He cannot, nobody can , and neither obedient to thebone taught us how to FULFILL the entire obedience requirement of the Law and the teachings of the prophets . It's was through Love.. Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12, Luke 10:25-28. And that was the only metric used on the day if judgement by the Messiah in Matthew 25:32-46. He revealed all this . Not me. I just point at His words. I'm trying very hard to explain this, but I'm facing fierce resistance from Churches. At some point I'll give up. We will yet have to face the judgment individually. I wish everyone very well and happiness. That being said
, Let the Lord's will be done. Nobody who breaks the Law escapes condemnation warns Jesus in Matthew 7:21-23 . We the Church have gone a step ahead and destroyed the entire Law of God, calling it temporary and redundant. Hence I fear the fierce consequences.And hence I plead, but mostly unsuccessfully...Soon I'll give up trying.To each their own, and God for all ...

"We" the church have done no such thing.
It is the lovers of sin who have done away with the law of Christ.
The law of liberty lives on in the hearts of those who love God above all else and their neighbors as themselves.

I will add this though...Since the end of the Law of Moses and the customs associated with it, everyday is the Lord's day; so reserving a single day for it is unnecessary.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Yes everyday every minutes Belongs to Christ . All legalism was done away by Christ and he rebuked the Pharisees harshly for that. Jesus explained it was through Love all obedience requirement of the Law lie Fulfilled . This was not accepted or taught . Instead we were taught the Law is dead ( or we are dead to the Law) and that we are now under Grace, a word Jesus never even uttered or taught. What Jesus did not teach I do not accept

 

[Hopeful]

Yes everyday every minutes Belongs to Christ . All legalism was done away by Christ and he rebuked the Pharisees harshly for that. Jesus explained it was through Love all obedience requirement of the Law lie Fulfilled . This was not accepted or taught

Not by the Jews, at least.
But the true church believes it.

. Instead we were taught the Law is dead ( or we are dead to the Law) and that we are now under Grace, a word Jesus never even uttered or taught. What Jesus did not teach I do not accept

Paul taught that we are dead to the law (of Moses), as it is written in Rom 7:4..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."
It isn't so much that the Law is dead, but that we are dead, with Christ, by our baptism into Him and into His death, burial, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
And the use of the word "grace" is different in different places.
Some, pitifully, use it as an escape from personal responsibility and as avenue of continued sin.
In other contexts, it is a wonderful indicator of out Lord's care for us.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

So you are referring to the law of Moses.


Ok, what about the law of Moses?

First things first : Is the Law written by God's finger ( Deuteronomy 9:10) given by Father God And now written on our minds and hearts ( Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 10:16) was according to you given by Moses? That you're calling it Law of Moses.
Can you please explain. Thanks.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

It’s important to understand all the words that Jesus spoke about a certain subject.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Nothing would pass from the law until it is fulfilled.


Do you believe Jesus when He said He came to fulfill the law?


By saying “until” the Lord is indicating the law was temporary; remaining until it’s purpose was fulfilled by Christ.





JLB

It’s important to understand all the words that Jesus spoke about a certain subject.

Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18

• one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

Nothing would pass from the law until it is fulfilled.


Do you believe Jesus when He said He came to fulfill the law?


By saying “until” the Lord is indicating the law was temporary; remaining until it’s purpose was fulfilled by Christ.





JLB

To me the verse clearly states that Jesus is saying "the Universe has to go before Law can go". We can hire English experts ( teachers at PHD teaching levels who are neutral and impartial ) lest we debate a lifetime . A neutral judge is always needed in such situations .
For instance God's World Translation is saying exactly as I'm translating. The a gander :
Psalm 111:7-8—“The works of His hands are verity and judg- ment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Not by the Jews, at least.
But the true church believes it.

Paul taught that we are dead to the law (of Moses), as it is written in Rom 7:4..."Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."
It isn't so much that the Law is dead, but that we are dead, with Christ, by our baptism into Him and into His death, burial, and raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:3-7)
And the use of the word "grace" is different in different places.
Some, pitifully, use it as an escape from personal responsibility and as avenue of continued sin.
In other contexts, it is a wonderful indicator of out Lord's care for us.

Amen. I got the whole blast of legalism when a friend pressured me to attend a messianic Church. Before I continue I wish not to judge or offend members of such churches.
I'm talking about my own experiences. They believed in Jesus as sin of God and the promised Messiah BUT then they would celebrate lot of Jewish festivals and observations. I felt extremely uncomfortable in those gatherings . They referred to OT as Torah and mostly studied Torah every Saturday which was the Shabbat. Coming from a Bible based Church which was founded by mostly NASA employees who were strict about everything being Scriptural, and yes we were passionately partial towards Jesus That dynamic hadn't changed in my heart although I stopped going to Churches. Even my own Church until they stop teaching Easy Believism . Inspite of all that I was infinitely more comfortable in my Christian Church than the messianic Church. I told them what's the point in backsliding into legalism ? One of the premier reasons Jesus came was to end all this legalism and teach us how to observe the entire teachings of Father God and the Prophets , through " circumcision of the heart" ...turning away from sin and turning to Love and kindness . Loving the Father and the fellow human being would enable a true Christ follower to obey the entire Law and the teachings of the Prophets, taught Jesus. Apostle John repeats that message ( and the vital importance to become loving rather than hateful and judgmental).
I believe new wine and new wineskins will come. New generation always springs surprises and hope. They will sift the Word especially the words of Jesus and have interactive Churches, so that the risk of uniting in error is mitigated at least to some extent. Respectful and knowledgeable debates will lead to better understanding rather than dogmatic assertions of teachers .
It's so much easier to access information now. No room for mistakes and errors. May the Lord Christ's teachings , undiluted , unwareed prevail in the World is a sincere desire of the heart . One request I do make to all Churches . Put Christ's Words before anyone in the Bible, Dave Father God's words. In NT teachings repeatedly teach the four gospels , until the Churchgoer gets saturated with CHRIST. Obedience must be taught . Just thinking aloud here guys. I myself have founded an online ministry called Christ's Words First Ministries. Still in the process of developing a website . As the name suggests , it's all about concentrated teachings of Jesus, the perfect Son and reflection of the Father. Since I do not, and will not charge a penny in any form, I'm using my own funds to finance the Ministry which is taking forever to take off . I have founded a Meetup group in my city , to bring about Christ awareness. But Covid struck days after the group was formed. Still have 30 odd members. But Grace of God it will grow if God wills it. I wish nothing beyond His will . Everything must be conformed to His Will. All my prayers end in one line " Lord answer my prayer ONLY if it's thy will, else please do not . And no matter what Your. Will. Must. Be. Done!
It's an irony guys , I'm not liked by most family members in India due to I being a Christian and they being Hindus.
And Christians do not like me much either because of my interpretation of the Word. Quite a situation I'm in!!! . Not very pleasant I must say. Yet my comfort and reliance is the Lord. Simply obsessed with Jesus..Enough of this . Good night and God bless you. May the deep wisdom of the Lord permeate our hearts and souls and His Word go deep into our being. And as the Baptist says , which is a favorite perdition of mine, "Jesus must increase, but I must decrease...until only He's left in me and I'm gone .... That will be a happy day for me...when I finally depart.
Lots and lots of love to you and yours, friends .

 

[JLB]

First things first : Is the Law written by God's finger ( Deuteronomy 9:10) given by Father God And now written on our minds and hearts ( Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 10:16) was according to you given by Moses? That you're calling it Law of Moses.
Can you please explain. Thanks.

I have asked you a question. Please answer it if you expect me to entertain your questions.


Is this how you believe the Church under the New Covenant is to observe the Sabbath?

Please answer with yes or no?



Then he said to them, “This is what the Lord has said: ‘Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the Lord. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.’ ” So they laid it up till morning, as Moses commanded; and it did not stink, nor were there any worms in it. Then Moses said, “Eat that today, for today is a Sabbath to the Lord; today you will not find it in the field. Six days you shall gather it, but on the seventh day, the Sabbath, there will be none.”
Now it happened that some of the people went out on the seventh day to gather, but they found none. And the Lord said to Moses, “How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? See! For the Lord has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.” So the people rested on the seventh day. Exodus 16:23-30


And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
Exodus 31:12-15




Then Moses gathered all the congregation of the children of Israel together, and said to them, “These are the words which the Lord has commanded you to do: Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death. You shall kindle no fire throughout your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”Exodus 35:1-3


Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died. Numbers 15:32-36



‘And on the Sabbath day two lambs in their first year, without blemish, and two-tenths of an ephah of fine flour as a grain offering, mixed with oil, with its drink offering— this is the burnt offering for every Sabbath, besides the regular burnt offering with its drink offering.
Numbers 28:9-10

 

[JLB]

To me the verse clearly states that Jesus is saying "the Universe has to go before Law can go". We can hire English experts ( teachers at PHD teaching levels who are neutral and impartial ) lest we debate a lifetime . A neutral judge is always needed in such situations .
For instance God's World Translation is saying exactly as I'm translating. The a gander :
Psalm 111:7-8—“The works of His hands are verity and judg- ment; all His commandments are sure. They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness

I answered this.


Did Jesus fulfill the law?


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

 

[JLB]

To me the verse clearly states that Jesus is saying "the Universe has to go before Law can go".

A. No it doesn’t.

B. Which law?

• The Law or Torah; first five books of the Bible?
• The law of sin and death; that took place in the garden?
• The law of Moses; that was added after the children of Israel left Egypt?
• The law that He put in our hearts in the New Covenant?
• The Law of faith?

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

I answered this.


Did Jesus fulfill the law?


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Matthew 5:17

If needed I'll say a billion times. Jesus did not come to end the Law as He is saying but to fulfill ( satisfy it's requirements of obedience). This he taught us in very clear terms in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12.
It was through LOVE ...Loving God and Loving others that is the only way one can satisfy / obey the entire requirement of the Law, not by killing it. I'm so disappointed teachers did not get this simply worded Truth. If the Law was temporary , to be done away , was David and others deceiving us or what in Psalms 19:9-11, Psalms 119, the whole Psalm itself ...No they were making true and emphatic assertion that the Law is forever and ever. That being said I strongly believe whoever attacks the eternal Law of God , which even the Son cannot touch has been killed by the Church teachers . Unfortunately you're one of them JLB. That's a huge surprise to me. When there is no Law, what is left is Lawlessness, and that's precisely what the workers of devil wanted us to believe , so that we may kill the eternal Law forever, and therefore become enemy of God , as they themselves were...yup wanting to drag us with them to the bowels of hell by attacking the Jaw of God. I strongly support the Lord's condemnation of all who talk about the Law being dead. What have they learned from Bible then ? I do not want a Lawless universe. What did you think, God's Law is only for this miniscule tiny irrelevant planet called earth only.... no where else in this endless universe or what? It's everywhere brother . But if you're going to be stubborn that the eternal Law of God is now dead, then I wish not to communicate with you. It's between the Father and you . And you will surely discover on the last day, why God Himself and The Psalmist we're repeatedly calling the Law eternal and Forever .
Whoever understand the Law also fears it. Not kills it brother. Since there was a time I greatly admired your bible knowledge.
I'll therefore request you one last time to neutrally examine God's, the Prophets' words and the words of King David on the eternal nature of the Law. But as for me I shudder to think of what happens to those who refuse to even accept that God's Law is applicable to them. Please consider JLB. Because my opinion about this will never ever change. The Law is forever and ever exactly as the Psalmist says in Psalms 19:9-11 and Psalms 117 , Psalms 119 etc.
And this Law stands between us two now. So if you're not willing to change your view on the eternal nature of the Law, I guess it's adios time. I wish you very well, but wish not to have any more discussion with you based on what I just wrote. Tomorrow if I should speak against the Law I wish not to have anything to do with my own self! I'm very sensitive about Law of God JLB. If anybody calls it dead/ redundant it's like delivering me a body blow. So God bless you brother. But looks like bye-bye times for the reasons cited here ( irreconcilable differences in doctrinal interpretation)
(Please refrain from communicating, for I shall not reply anymore )

 

[JLB]

If needed I'll say a billion times. Jesus did not come to end the Jaw as He is saying but to fulfill ( satisfy it's requirements of obedience . This he taught us in very clear terms in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12.
It was through LOVE ...Loving God and Loving others that is the only way one can satisfy / obey the entire requirement of the Law, not by killing it. I'm so disappointed teachers did not get this simply worded Truth. If the Law was temporary , to be done away , was David and others deceiving us or what in Psalms 19:9-11, Psalms 119, the whole Psalm itself ...No they were making true and emphatic assertion that the Law is forever and ever. That being said I strongly believe whoever attacks the eternal Law of God , which even the Son cannot touch has been killed by the Church teachers . Unfortunately you're one of them JLB. That's a huge surprise to me. When there is no Law, what is left is Lawlessness, and that's precisely what the workers of devil wantedcus to believe , so that we may kill the eternal Law forever, and therefore become enemy of God , as they themselves were...yup wanting to drag us with them to the bowels of hell by attacking the Jaw of God. I strongly support the Lord's condemnation of all who talk about the Law being dead. What have they learned from Bible then ? I do not want a Lawless universe. What did you to think God's Law is only for this miniscule tiny irrelevant planet called earth only.... no where else in this endless universe or what? It's everywhere brother . But if you're going to be stubborn that the eternal Law of God is now dead, then I wish not to communicate with you. It's between the Father and you . And you will surely discover on the last day, why God Himself and The Psalmist we're repeatedly calling the Law eternal and Forever .
Whoever understand the Law also fears it. Not kills it brother. Since there was a time I greatly admired your bible knowledge.
I'll therefore request you one last time to neutrally examine God's, the Prophets' words and the words of King David on the eternal nature of the Law. But as for me I shudder to think of what happens to those who refuse to even accept that God's Law is applicable to them. Please consider JLB. Because my opinion about this will never ever change. The Law is forever and ever exactly as the Psalmist says in Psalms 19:9-11 and Psalms 117 , Psalms 119 etc.
And this Law stands between us two now. So if you're not willing to change your view on the eternal nature of the Law, I guess it's adios time. I wish you very well, but wish not to have any more discussion with you based on what I just wrote. Tomorrow if I should speak against the Law I wish not to have anything to do with my own self! I'm very sensitive about Law of God JLB. If anybody calls it dead/ redundant it's like delivering me a body blow. So God bless you brother. But looks like bye-bye times for the reasons cited here ( irreconcilable differences in doctrinal interpretation)
(Please refrain from communicating, for I shall not reply anymore )

If Jesus fulfilled the Law, the very condition by which the Law was to be destroyed, then why would anyone try to continue to keep it.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18



Again, the 10 Commandments are not the Law of Moses.


Abraham obeyed His commandments and laws 430 years before Moses received the law.


because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Genesis 26:5


The law of Moses was temporary, His commandments are eternal.


The Commandments are part of the New Covenant, and are written on our heart and mind and have to do with much more that the 10.


Then there is the discussion about the Sabbath, which you refuse to engage in. The Sabbath is a day of rest, which points to the rest to come at the end of this age. We do not keep the Sabbath as prescribed by the law of Moses.



I see you refuse to answer my questions because it exposes your ignorance of this subject.


You claim Paul is not a brother in Christ and reject his writings, when Peter validated him and his writings as SCRIPTURE.


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:14-16

• also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

You have been deceived by false teachers of Messianic Judaism, who desire to bring you into the bondage of the law of Moses.


I fear for your eternal soul.





JLB

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

If Jesus fulfilled the Law, the very condition by which the Law was to be destroyed, then why would anyone try to continue to keep it.


“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18



Again, the 10 Commandments are not the Law of Moses.


Abraham obeyed His commandments and laws 430 years before Moses received the law.


because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws.”
Genesis 26:5


The law of Moses was temporary, His commandments are eternal.


The Commandments are part of the New Covenant, and are written on our heart and mind and have to do with much more that the 10.


Then there is the discussion about the Sabbath, which you refuse to engage in. The Sabbath is a day of rest, which points to the rest to come at the end of this age. We do not keep the Sabbath as prescribed by the law of Moses.



I see you refuse to answer my questions because it exposes your ignorance of this subject.


You claim Paul is not a brother in Christ and reject his writings, when Peter validated him and his writings as SCRIPTURE.


Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless; and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.
2 Peter 3:14-16

• also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.

You have been deceived by false teachers of Messianic Judaism, who desire to bring you into the bondage of the law of Moses.


I fear for your eternal soul.





JLB

Likewise JLB I tremble for your soul

 

[jaybo]

If needed I'll say a billion times. Jesus did not come to end the Law as He is saying but to fulfill ( satisfy it's requirements of obedience). This he taught us in very clear terms in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12.
It was through LOVE ...Loving God and Loving others that is the only way one can satisfy / obey the entire requirement of the Law, not by killing it. I'm so disappointed teachers did not get this simply worded Truth. If the Law was temporary , to be done away , was David and others deceiving us or what in Psalms 19:9-11, Psalms 119, the whole Psalm itself ...No they were making true and emphatic assertion that the Law is forever and ever. That being said I strongly believe whoever attacks the eternal Law of God , which even the Son cannot touch has been killed by the Church teachers . Unfortunately you're one of them JLB. That's a huge surprise to me. When there is no Law, what is left is Lawlessness, and that's precisely what the workers of devil wanted us to believe , so that we may kill the eternal Law forever, and therefore become enemy of God , as they themselves were...yup wanting to drag us with them to the bowels of hell by attacking the Jaw of God. I strongly support the Lord's condemnation of all who talk about the Law being dead. What have they learned from Bible then ? I do not want a Lawless universe. What did you think, God's Law is only for this miniscule tiny irrelevant planet called earth only.... no where else in this endless universe or what? It's everywhere brother . But if you're going to be stubborn that the eternal Law of God is now dead, then I wish not to communicate with you. It's between the Father and you . And you will surely discover on the last day, why God Himself and The Psalmist we're repeatedly calling the Law eternal and Forever .
Whoever understand the Law also fears it. Not kills it brother. Since there was a time I greatly admired your bible knowledge.
I'll therefore request you one last time to neutrally examine God's, the Prophets' words and the words of King David on the eternal nature of the Law. But as for me I shudder to think of what happens to those who refuse to even accept that God's Law is applicable to them. Please consider JLB. Because my opinion about this will never ever change. The Law is forever and ever exactly as the Psalmist says in Psalms 19:9-11 and Psalms 117 , Psalms 119 etc.
And this Law stands between us two now. So if you're not willing to change your view on the eternal nature of the Law, I guess it's adios time. I wish you very well, but wish not to have any more discussion with you based on what I just wrote. Tomorrow if I should speak against the Law I wish not to have anything to do with my own self! I'm very sensitive about Law of God JLB. If anybody calls it dead/ redundant it's like delivering me a body blow. So God bless you brother. But looks like bye-bye times for the reasons cited here ( irreconcilable differences in doctrinal interpretation)
(Please refrain from communicating, for I shall not reply anymore )

You can say it a trillion times but you're still wrong. Read Galatians!!!

 

[Truthfrees]

If needed I'll say a billion times. Jesus did not come to end the Law as He is saying but to fulfill ( satisfy it's requirements of obedience). This he taught us in very clear terms in Matthew 22:37-40, Matthew 7:12.
It was through LOVE ...Loving God and Loving others that is the only way one can satisfy / obey the entire requirement of the Law, not by killing it. I'm so disappointed teachers did not get this simply worded Truth. If the Law was temporary , to be done away , was David and others deceiving us or what in Psalms 19:9-11, Psalms 119, the whole Psalm itself ...No they were making true and emphatic assertion that the Law is forever and ever. That being said I strongly believe whoever attacks the eternal Law of God , which even the Son cannot touch has been killed by the Church teachers . Unfortunately you're one of them JLB. That's a huge surprise to me. When there is no Law, what is left is Lawlessness, and that's precisely what the workers of devil wanted us to believe , so that we may kill the eternal Law forever, and therefore become enemy of God , as they themselves were...yup wanting to drag us with them to the bowels of hell by attacking the Jaw of God. I strongly support the Lord's condemnation of all who talk about the Law being dead. What have they learned from Bible then ? I do not want a Lawless universe. What did you think, God's Law is only for this miniscule tiny irrelevant planet called earth only.... no where else in this endless universe or what? It's everywhere brother . But if you're going to be stubborn that the eternal Law of God is now dead, then I wish not to communicate with you. It's between the Father and you . And you will surely discover on the last day, why God Himself and The Psalmist we're repeatedly calling the Law eternal and Forever .
Whoever understand the Law also fears it. Not kills it brother. Since there was a time I greatly admired your bible knowledge.
I'll therefore request you one last time to neutrally examine God's, the Prophets' words and the words of King David on the eternal nature of the Law. But as for me I shudder to think of what happens to those who refuse to even accept that God's Law is applicable to them. Please consider JLB. Because my opinion about this will never ever change. The Law is forever and ever exactly as the Psalmist says in Psalms 19:9-11 and Psalms 117 , Psalms 119 etc.
And this Law stands between us two now. So if you're not willing to change your view on the eternal nature of the Law, I guess it's adios time. I wish you very well, but wish not to have any more discussion with you based on what I just wrote. Tomorrow if I should speak against the Law I wish not to have anything to do with my own self! I'm very sensitive about Law of God JLB. If anybody calls it dead/ redundant it's like delivering me a body blow. So God bless you brother. But looks like bye-bye times for the reasons cited here ( irreconcilable differences in doctrinal interpretation)
(Please refrain from communicating, for I shall not reply anymore )

true - paul said "nullify the law? no! establish it? yes!" - Romans 3:31

paul was always against keeping the law for salvation - that is all - no where does he say stop keeping the law - he says establish it

paul is hard to understand unless people realize he is talking about keep the law to be saved vs keep the law as a lifestyle - just as Jesus and all apostles continued to keep the law as a holy lifestyle

 

[jaybo]

true - paul said "nullify the law? no! establish it? yes!" - Romans 3:31

paul was always against keeping the law for salvation - that is all - no where does he say stop keeping the law - he says establish it

paul is hard to understand unless people realize he is talking about keep the law to be saved vs keep the law as a lifestyle - just as Jesus and all apostles continued to keep the law as a holy lifestyle

Read Galatians! That epistle totally ends this argument in favor of keeping the law.

Here are some selections...

Galatians 3:1-5, " You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! 2 The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing?—if indeed it was for nothing. Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:10-14, "For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Now it is clear no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous one will live by faith. But the law is not based on faith, but the one who does the works of the law will live by them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith."

Galatians 3:23-25, " Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed. Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

It seriously grieves me that you have missed the fundamental New Covenant truth that we are no longer under the law now that Christ has come. => The law had become our guardian until Christ <=

 

[Truthfrees]

Read Galatians! That epistle totally ends this argument in favor of keeping the law.

Here are some selections...

Galatians 3:1-5, " You foolish Galatians! Who has cast a spell on you? Before your eyes Jesus Christ was vividly portrayed as crucified! 2 The only thing I want to learn from you is this: Did you receive the Spirit by doing the works of the law or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? Although you began with the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by human effort? Have you suffered so many things for nothing?—if indeed it was for nothing. Does God then give you the Spirit and work miracles among you by your doing the works of the law or by your believing what you heard?

Galatians 3:10-14, "For all who rely on doing the works of the law are under a curse, because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not keep on doing everything written in the book of the law.” Now it is clear no one is justified before God by the law, because the righteous one will live by faith. But the law is not based on faith, but the one who does the works of the law will live by them. Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree” in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham would come to the Gentiles, so that we could receive the promise of the Spirit by faith."

Galatians 3:23-25, " Now before faith came we were held in custody under the law, being kept as prisoners until the coming faith would be revealed. Thus the law had become our guardian until Christ, so that we could be declared righteous by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian."

It seriously grieves me that you have missed the fundamental New Covenant truth that we are no longer under the law now that Christ has come. => The law had become our guardian until Christ <=

amen - keeping the law for salvation/righteousness/being right with God was never instituted by God and never will be God's way - iow we are all saying the same thing - the law was for holy lifestyle - don't kill - don't lie - don't covet - don't kidnap - don't do dishonest business - honor God - obey God - etc - iow love God and love man

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

amen - keeping the law for salvation/righteousness/being right with God was never instituted by God and never will be God's way - iow we are all saying the same thing - the law was for holy lifestyle - don't kill - don't lie - don't covet - don't kidnap - don't do dishonest business - honor God - obey God - etc - iow love God and love man

Thank you for sharing that . Sometimes it's best to work BACKWARDS.
In our case, it would be prudent to examine what happened on the day of judgment, and we should read that out repeatedly --- every teacher and student of Christian Faith--- because it lets us know what doctrine will work on the last day, and what would fail. I'm exceedingly grateful Jesus GAVE us the answer to that. It's almost like the greatest exam a student is appearing in, in their lives, which will decide/ determine their future forever, and the teacher/ judge is kind and compassionate enough to say " look guys I know it's very scary what you are going through, so here are the questions I'm going to ask and here are the answers as well! Read and study them, and practice them, because that's what Jesus will ask and consider on the final day--- the most important day and moment in every human's life"
Do you see how kind the teacher who is also the examiner and judge is? He gave out his questions and answers even before the test.....
The answers and criteria that Christ will use on the last day, in his capacity as the judge of mankind, lay captured in the judgment day vision He provided .. it's not a parable. Im talking about Matthew 25:31-46. This IS the real deal. Nobody can change this event/ dynamic/ end-result. It will play out word for word as is written there, because of His words in Matthew 24:35.
Keeping this in mind, please read, study and examine thoroughly and repeatedly what metric/ criterion Christ USED ( I'm deliberately using past-tense) to SAVE or CONDEMN.
I will not give my opinion anymore. It's very simple, uncomplicated, fair, and just. Anybody who studies it will quickly understand what metric Jesus will use on the last day.
I repeat --the passage where Jesus reveals His judgment day vision is Matthew 25:31-46.
No other NT writer can surpass this -- no matter what verses we may quote. This judgment day criterion ( to save/condemn) that Christ used cannot be changed. Please bear that in mind guys. God bless everyone /\
Raj sahu