Is the Law of God dead? And if yes, how?

[PeterJens]

I wonder when someone asks another person for a simple response to a complex issue, are they just wanting the people to declare their camp or group they identify with, friend or foe or do they not understand the eternal depth to many of the issues of faith.

God bless you

 

[Randy]

Jesus said differently - Matthew 5:19 - Matthew 4:4

even paul said differently Romans 3:31

everything must line up with what God says

paul was talking about keeping the law to be saved/righteous/acceptable to God Acts 21 - so i agree with you if that is what you are talking about - if you think paul contradicts the above 3 passages one of which is his own words then i disagree

In Acts 21 it was falsely reported about Paul that he was forbidding Jews from circumcising their children and to stop following Jewish customs when in reality what Paul rebuked was Jews forcing gentiles into following Jewish customs and circumcising their children.

Paul to Peter
How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

 

[Truthfrees]

In Acts 21 it was falsely reported about Paul that he was forbidding Jews from circumcising their children and to stop following Jewish customs when in reality what Paul rebuked was Jews forcing gentiles into following Jewish customs and circumcising their children.

Paul to Peter
How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

amen - it was all about manmade laws not God's holy laws - and forcing gentiles to be circumcized for salvation - some jews said gentile believers were not really saved if they weren't

the confusion started with paul's gentiles - prior to that time people who wanted to join God's people became jews and went to synagogue and were circumsized as all jews are - Exodus 12:48

paul's gentiles did none of that so some jews from janes told them they weren't really saved then - they all went to the jerusalem messianic council to sort this out and Acts 21 was the outcome - basically paul's gentiles did not have to become jews if they wanted to stay gentiles - that was a new concept not previously considered for anyone joining God's chosen people - and basically the noachide laws for a righteous gentile is what Acts 21 instructed for paul's gentiles

 

[Hopeful]

amen - it was all about manmade laws not God's holy laws - and forcing gentiles to be circumcized for salvation - some jews said gentile believers were not really saved if they weren't

God commanded circumcision...
"And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.
8 And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.
9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.
12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you,..." (Gen 17:7-12)

God commanded it, so you must do it...if you are still living under the Old Covenant.

 

[Randy]

amen - it was all about manmade laws not God's holy laws - and forcing gentiles to be circumcized for salvation - some jews said gentile believers were not really saved if they weren't

the confusion started with paul's gentiles - prior to that time people who wanted to join God's people became jews and went to synagogue and were circumsized as all jews are - Exodus 12:48

paul's gentiles did none of that so some jews from janes told them they weren't really saved then - they all went to the jerusalem messianic council to sort this out and Acts 21 was the outcome - basically paul's gentiles did not have to become jews if they wanted to stay gentiles - that was a new concept not previously considered for anyone joining God's chosen people - and basically the noachide laws for a righteous gentile is what Acts 21 instructed for paul's gentiles

Those "God" calls His children
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Truthfrees]

Those "God" calls His children
children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

A person is not a Jew who is one only outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. No, a person is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a person’s praise is not from other people, but from God.

If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

amen - so it's still back to Romans 3:31 Matthew 4:4 Matthew 5:17-20 Hebrews 8:8-12 - God's laws are written on hearts/minds by God vs manmade laws are burdensome - Matthew 23:2-5

 

[Randy]

amen - so it's still back to Romans 3:31 Matthew 4:4 Matthew 5:17-20 Hebrews 8:8-12 - God's laws are vs manmade laws

The new covenant is NOT like the prior covenant. AND the entrance is by faith in Jesus. The Spirit is not given by works of laws.

There must be laws/commands written on the hearts of the faithful for repentance of sin is a sign given for true salvation.

The gospel message to Jews wasn't to stop observing anything but that you need to go to Christ for Life. Christ is how God chose to forgive sin. The knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of sin the ground work John the Baptist instilled in the people to prepare them for the one after him. The leadership hated Jesus and refused to repent for He had testified what they did was evil.

The gospel was first preached in a world with unrestrained sin and many false Gods.

Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

And they were instructed such but not with circumcision or sabbath days or kosher foods or religious observances to meet requirements of law.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


And its the same gospel message for all.

 

[Truthfrees]

The new covenant is NOT like the prior covenant. AND the entrance is by faith in Jesus. The Spirit is not given by works of laws.

There must be laws/commands written on the hearts of the faithful for repentance of sin is a sign given for true salvation.

The gospel message to Jews wasn't to stop observing anything but that you need to go to Christ for Life. Christ is how God chose to forgive sin. The knowledge of salvation through the forgiveness of sin the ground work John the Baptist instilled in the people to prepare them for the one after him. The leadership hated Jesus and refused to repent for He had testified what they did was evil.

The gospel was first preached in a world with unrestrained sin and many false Gods.

Jesus to Paul
to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

And they were instructed such but not with circumcision or sabbath days or kosher foods or religious observances to meet requirements of law.

Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.


And its the same gospel message for all.

if you read what God said about the new covenant it says God's laws remain Hebrews 8:8-12 and some cool new abilities are given to everyone - and Jesus says the same thing - Matthew 5:19 - and so does paul - Romans 3:31

for me God's words / red words win and man's words have to bend

 

[Randy]

if you read what God said about the new covenant it says God's laws remain Hebrews 8:8-12 and some cool new abilities are given to everyone - and Jesus says the same thing - Matthew 5:19 - and so does paul - Romans 3:31

for me God's words / red words win and man's words have to bend

There are commands that need to be kept.
“And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother, and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

 

[Norman]

There are commands that need to be kept.
“And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother, and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

Sorta like this...Buddy is hitting himself in the head with a hammer. There is a law on the books to prevent one from hitting themselves in the head with a hammer.
If you are found guilty of hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, you get fined $1,000. Jesus comes and and pays the $1,000 fine for anyone who will accept His payment. Buddy learns of this and accepts the payment, though he continues to keep hitting himself in the head with a hammer.
Joe, who knows Jesus, tells Buddy, "Jesus didn't just pay the fine for hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, He also offers to teach you how to live without hitting yourself in the head with a hammer."
Buddy says, "You are telling me that in order to stop hurting myself, I have to do something. You are adding works, you are trampling His blood! You are of the Devil!" Sigh!

 

[Truthfrees]

Sorta like this...Buddy is hitting himself in the head with a hammer. There is a law on the books to prevent one from hitting themselves in the head with a hammer.
If you are found guilty of hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, you get fined $1,000. Jesus comes and and pays the $1,000 fine for anyone who will accept His payment. Buddy learns of this and accepts the payment, though he continues to keep hitting himself in the head with a hammer.
Joe, who knows Jesus, tells Buddy, "Jesus didn't just pay the fine for hitting yourself in the head with a hammer, He also offers to teach you how to live without hitting yourself in the head with a hammer."
Buddy says, "You are telling me that in order to stop hurting myself, I have to do something. You are adding works, you are trampling His blood! You are of the Devil!" Sigh!

kinda but wouldn't it just be better to do what God says since the new covenant says He wrote His laws on hearts and minds? - love God's holy laws and watch it work from inside your heart mind - one of the wonders of the new covenant that was paid for by eternally precious blood?

 

[Truthfrees]

There are commands that need to be kept.
“And behold, one came to Him and said, “Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?” 17 And He said to him, “Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments.” 18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” And Jesus said, “You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; 19 Honor your father and mother, and You shall love your neighbor as yourself.”

amen - God's laws were not erased - they were written on heart and mind so that it is now the power of God giving you Holy Spirit ability to keep God's laws - that way no scripture has to be thrown out because it doesn't fit a theology

 

[Norman]

kinda but wouldn't it just be better to do what God says since the new covenant says He wrote His laws on hearts and minds? - love God's holy laws and watch it work from inside your heart mind - one of the wonders of the new covenant that was paid for by eternally precious blood?

He wrote them in my heart and mind, in Yeshua. Even though I've only known that I'm Jewish for a couple of years, I've accepted that Torah is important. I know that the law of sin and death is done away with, but Yahweh's eternal law stands. When I'm feeling well enough, I'm going to go to a service at the local Messianic congregation.

 

[Truthfrees]

He wrote them in my heart and mind, in Yeshua. Even though I've only known that I'm Jewish for a couple of years, I've accepted that Torah is important. I know that the law of sin and death is done away with, but Yahweh's eternal law stands. When I'm feeling well enough, I'm going to go to a service at the local Messianic congregation.

amen - all God wants is that everyone agree God's laws are holy pure powerful - not stinky garbage that needs to be thrown out

then stay in love with God and watch Him do ALL the work in and through you - that way you won't be doing ANY work - God will be doing it all by HIS most precious and powerful Holy Spirit - all by faith in God and the power of His grace/ability/love/power - so that God gets all the glory/credit and you get all the blessings/peace/joy/benefits/favor/empowerment

 

[Randy]

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law.

I am not under the law either. But as I pointed out we are not free to sin and there are commands that need to be kept. Wickedness was rebuked.

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean. ' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man `unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him `unclean.

I am not kosher nor do I keep a sabbath day as is in the law (a absence of work).

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

You have done nothing wrong as what you present needs to be well received within discussing this topic whether others agree or not. You have always showed respect for others and a true heart for the Lord. Please stay with us as you are important to this forum.

Thank you for your kind words Glory. Much appreciated
Actually, I have spoken/written a lot, actually too much! and lol I need to keep quiet and READ more than I write! 2
So I'll take a break from writing, and focus more on reading/ studying posts in accordance/ obedience to/ with what James teaches (James 1:19–20). Some posts are absolutely amazing!
But thank you once again and lots of love to everyone.

 

[Norman]

Rajesh...words of wisdom that I need to take to heart. Thank you.

 

[Rajesh Sahu]

Rajesh...words of wisdom that I need to take to heart. Thank you.

 

[Truthfrees]

To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), to win those under the law.

I am not under the law either. But as I pointed out we are not free to sin and there are commands that need to be kept. Wickedness was rebuked.

But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man `unclean. ' For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. These are what make a man `unclean'; but eating with unwashed hands does not make him `unclean.

I am not kosher nor do I keep a sabbath day as is in the law (a absence of work).

if a person can agree God's laws are perfect holy powerful and now also written on heart and mind God can work with that and He can lead you into what HE asks of you - so when you hear God's laws He can speak to you through them and bring a new blessing into your life

if a person thinks God's laws are stinky rotten garbage to be thrown out Matthew 5:19 kicks in - being least in God's kingdom is immensely better than NOT being in God's kingdom at all - but what a shame to miss something God has for you simply because of not loving every word that came from God's mouth - Matthew 4:4

everything that comes from God is incomparably wonderful and a deep blessing - seeing all God's words that way is leaving the door open for God to bless you in new ways as you and He walk together daily

 

[Randy]

if a person can agree God's laws are perfect holy powerful and now also written on heart and mind God can work with that and He can lead you into what HE asks of you - so when you hear God's laws He can speak to you through them and bring a new blessing into your life

if a person thinks God's laws are stinky rotten garbage to be thrown out Matthew 5:19 kicks in - being least in God's kingdom is immensely better than NOT being in God's kingdom at all - but what a shame to miss something God has for you simply because of not loving every word that came from God's mouth - Matthew 4:4

everything that comes from God is incomparably wonderful and a deep blessing - seeing all God's words that way is leaving the door open for God to bless you in new ways as you and He walk together daily

I am not under the law. I am under Christ.

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.