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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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Is The Law of God Still in Force Today ?/Matthew 5:17,18
- Thread starter WalterandDebbie
- Start date
Jethro Bodine
Member
Do not steal was God's law before the law of Moses was added, and remained God's law after the law of Moses was declared Obsolete by God Himself.
That is my answer.
It has been my answer to you for as long as I have been on this Forum.
The Law, as a covenant, as a whole, was added...
Do you understand this?
Do you understand that the law was added to something else, and the law became a part of something else... until the Seed should come.
The commandments of God were learned by Abraham directly from God by hearing His Voice and Obeying what he heard, which is called faith.
Abraham learned God's laws and commandments by faith.
Abraham walked with God and learned from Him.
This is the Covenant we are grafted into by Faith in Christ, and have become partakers of the Commonwealth of Israel.
We are not grafted into the Covenant of Sinai, which the Bible says "gives birth to bondage".
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-- Galatians 4:21-24
Here is the way Peter said it before the Jerusalem Council -
why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear. Acts 15:10
The Covenant of Sinai gives birth to bondage!
Bondage!
It has been nailed to the cross, taken out of the way, and declared obsolete by God Almighty Himself!
JLB
The entire Law of Moses was nailed to the cross, taken out of the way, and declared Obsolete by God.
I am not part of that Covenant.
God's laws and commandments that Abraham obeyed, some of which were seen in the law of Moses, and remained intact after the law was declared obsolete, and was taken out of the way, and nailed to the cross.
These are the laws were are to obey.
That is the Covenant we are grafted into.
The Abrahamic Covenant.
The Covenant at Sinai gives birth to bondage.
I'm not looking to be entangled in bondage, if that is your thing, then go for it.
Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons: the one by a bondwoman, the other by a freewoman. 23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-- Galatians 4:21-24
Why would anyone want to go through the fleshly gymnastics of the law of Moses, rather than simply being led by the Spirit.
I don't have to wear Jewish costumes or not eat certain foods or observe special days, or try to use Hebrew phrases in order to not commit adultery or steal or lie.
I have a desire to see people saved and help people and give to people, and serve my brothers and sisters and support ministries, and all the things God has led me to do without trying to go through any of the Hebrew Gymnastics that Gentiles try to do to feel spiritual.
The law of Moses was declared Obsolete by God, if you don't know that, then just ask Jethro, he will show you the scripture.
JLB
Those who are partakers of Christ are grafted in to the Abrahamic Covenant; the Root.
The Commonwealth of Israel.
We are grafted into that Covenant.
The Church does not replace that Covenant. The Church is made up of those who are in that Covenant.
Abraham was the founding member of the "called out ones", the Ecclesia, the Holy Nation and Royal Priesthood, which today is called the Church.
That is why Paradise was named after him.
The New Covenant is not a different Covenant, but a Fresh Covenant or Refreshed Covenant.
Replacement Theology is False!
JLB
ezrider
Member
A gift on this Christmas morning, that you might lay to you heart and consider:
Jethro Bodine in all of his comments appears to believe that with the knowledge of Christ that he himself can learn to walk perfectly in the Law so that he will commit no sin.
Christ has shown us how to walk perfectly before the law, but not that you should try and perfect your flesh and be free from sin; but in your sin, to walk humbly before the Lord in acknowledgement of your sin. To know yourself as one who has already been judged, and yet forgiven. So that when the Lord says what have you done? You can answer in all honesty and say I have eaten from the tree of knowledge and now I do not understand. If you knew the Grace of the Lord, then you would not continue to use the sacrifice of Christ as your fig leaf to hide from your sins.
I know that you will continue to argue and debate the Law as if you were its judge. But let me ask you one question:
Jesus told us that if we believed on His name, then our sins would be forgiven us, all of them that were under the law. But He also told us that there is one sin that will not be forgiven you. Find that in your old covenant if you can.
In the garden of Eden there was but one commandment that brought forth the knowledge of sin: Of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it.
In the Old covenant there were many commandments that brought for the knowledge of sin: They are contained in the Law and the Prophets, and it is of these we have been forgiven.
In the New Covenant there is but one commandment that brings for the knowledge of sin, the one sin that Jesus told you will not be forgiven you.
Tell me, how can you perfect yourself in the knowledge of this one commandment in the New Covenant that reveals to you your sin? The one sin that Jesus said will not be forgiven you.
Jethro Bodine in all of his comments appears to believe that with the knowledge of Christ that he himself can learn to walk perfectly in the Law so that he will commit no sin.
Christ has shown us how to walk perfectly before the law, but not that you should try and perfect your flesh and be free from sin; but in your sin, to walk humbly before the Lord in acknowledgement of your sin. To know yourself as one who has already been judged, and yet forgiven. So that when the Lord says what have you done? You can answer in all honesty and say I have eaten from the tree of knowledge and now I do not understand. If you knew the Grace of the Lord, then you would not continue to use the sacrifice of Christ as your fig leaf to hide from your sins.
I know that you will continue to argue and debate the Law as if you were its judge. But let me ask you one question:
Jesus told us that if we believed on His name, then our sins would be forgiven us, all of them that were under the law. But He also told us that there is one sin that will not be forgiven you. Find that in your old covenant if you can.
In the garden of Eden there was but one commandment that brought forth the knowledge of sin: Of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat of it.
In the Old covenant there were many commandments that brought for the knowledge of sin: They are contained in the Law and the Prophets, and it is of these we have been forgiven.
In the New Covenant there is but one commandment that brings for the knowledge of sin, the one sin that Jesus told you will not be forgiven you.
Tell me, how can you perfect yourself in the knowledge of this one commandment in the New Covenant that reveals to you your sin? The one sin that Jesus said will not be forgiven you.
TOG
Member
I see we have found something we agree on, at least for the most part. But even though we agree on the starting point, so to speak, we arrive at different conclusions. Let's set aside our disagreements for a while, and start at this common point and work from there, and see where it leads us.
The terms "Old Covenant" and "New Covenant" are a bit misleading. They imply that there are only two covenenants in the Bible, and that isn't the case. There are 5 major covenants between God and men that are explicitly mentioned, and one that is implied. The first one that is actually called a covenant is the one God made with Noah and his descendants after the flood. Later, God made another covenant with Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and their descendants. Next He made a covenant on Mt. Sinai with everyone who was there and their descendants. Later still, God made a covenant with David and his descendants. Finally, there is the covenant prophesied by Jeremiah and completed on Calvary.
Every one of these covenants were made with an individual or group and the descendants of that individual or group. But that puts some people in more than one covenant. Abraham was a descendant of Noah, and therefore a member of the Noahic covenant before God made a separate covenant with him. Moses was a descendant of Abraham and David was a descendant of people who had been at Mt. Sinai. What happens when a person is part of a covenant when God makes a new covenant that also applies to him? Which covenant is he a part of? Paul answers this question for us.
This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God (Gal. 3:17 ESV)
When God makes a covenant, it does not nullify any covenants He has made previously. When a person is already a member of a covenant when God makes a new covenant, that also applies to him, then he becomes a member of both covenants. He receives the promises of both covenants, and is bound by the conditions of both covenants. When God made a covenant with Abraham, that didn't mean that Abraham was no longer bound by the covenant with Noah, nor does it mean that he lost the promises given in that covenant. When God made a covenant at Mt. Sinai, that did not nullify either the covenant with Abraham nor the one with Noah. Those that were part of the covenant at Mt. Sinai were members of all three covenants and were bound by the conditions and received the promises of all three covenants.
Just as the covenant with Abraham didn't nullify the covenant with Noah and the covenant at Mt. Sinai didn't nullify the covenant with Abraham, neither did the covenant made on Calvary nullify the covenant made on Mt. Sinai. Those who were / are members of the Sinai covenant and to whom the Calvary covenant applies are members of both covenants. They receive the promises and are bound by the conditions of both covenants. One did not nullify / abolish / destroy (or whatever else you choose to call it) the other covenant.
So, how do I know which covenants apply to me? The answer is simple. Just look at the group with whom each covenant was made and see if I am in that group. If I am, then I am a member of that covenant. If I am not a member of that group, then I am not a member of that covenant. Let's look again at the groups with whom the main covenants were made.
- Noah and his descendants
- Abraham and his descendants through Isaac and Jacob
- Descendants of Israel and those who chose to join themselves with Israel and her God
- David and his descendants
- The house of Israel and the house of Judah and those who are grafted onto them
The TOG
Jethro Bodine
Member
All I understand is you are not answering my question. Why aren't you answering my question? You don't have to, but I would like to know why you're not. How can your doctrine not fulfill the law while Paul says it does get fulfilled?
Are they abolished by faith in Christ, or are they, as Paul says, fulfilled by faith in Christ? Your problem is you have failed to distinguish between the law as a covenant, which has been laid aside, and the law as that which gets fulfilled when we walk in our faith in Christ. Until you do that your doctrine abolishes the law of Moses--the very thing Jesus said he did NOT come to do.
So, if I want to 'not murder', or 'not steal' I'm putting myself under the bondage of the law? Is that what Paul was teaching the Galatians? When I read the letter I see him explaining to them that if they want to keep various days, months, and years commanded in the law for the purpose of trying to be justified by the effort, that is when they are in the wrong about the law. In context, that is what 'under the law' means, and which is forbidden for the one who has faith in Christ.
So, when I have faith in Christ, thus fulfilling the law, not abolishing it, I am bringing myself into bondage? Interesting.
I know what it means for the debt of punishment of the law to be nailed to the cross in Jesus. But how is that the fulfilling of the law that Paul says I do when I love others? Because you have no explanation for the fulfilling of the law of Moses, only it's complete and utter removal, your doctrine has the law abolished. But Jesus said he did not come to do that. Therefore, it's easy to see that your doctrine is false.
God's law was around before Moses was born, and remains to be God's law after the Seed should come.
Maybe your one of these folks that doesn't believe Jesus is the Messiah, and therefore the law of Moses is still in force?
The Seed has come.
The law was added until the Seed should come.
Do you understand that the law was added to something else, and the law became a part of something else... until the Seed should come.
Did God ever require Abraham to stone anyone to death for kindling a fire on the Sabbath?
Did God ever require Abraham to travel to Jerusalem to keep the feast of Pentecost?
Did God ever Abraham to build an Ark? or a Tabernacle?
14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. Colossians 2:14
The problem is, the scripture doesn't say the debt of punishment was nailed to the cross, the scripture says the handwriting of requirements was nailed to the cross.
, and taken out of the way.
I'm only saying what scripture says.
If you want to be under the law of Moses then go for it.
Just make sure you continue to keep all of it, down to every jot and tittle.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and he of the freewoman through promise, 24 which things are symbolic. For these are the two covenants: the one from Mount Sinai which gives birth to bondage, which is Hagar-- Galatians 4:23-24
Did I write these words brother.
If you don't like these words, then you should argue with God, not me.
Do you understand what Peter said in front of all the people who had an issue with the very thing we are discussing?
Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? Acts 15:10
It's almost like you can't hear what Peter or Paul said.
All of the ordinances were taken out of the way, leaving only the original commandments and laws that Abraham kept, that were in force before the law was added.
Paul calls these "righteous requirements" in the law.
JLB
smaller
Member
The recurring difficulties in dealing with the Law, the Word of God, sits ONLY in how the viewer sees such Words of God.
Paul tells us that the Law is spiritual. That alone should be enough to move us away from a fleshly, external, carnal view of the LAW.
When 'most' christians handle this particular subject matter they tend to relegate the O.T. Law as being only external obedience/ritualistic performance matters when they are not. They contained and still contain wonderful spiritual engagements and shadows of things to COME.
All of those Words of God were/are and will remain Spiritual in Nature, and as such, Alive and Active. In the readers who see the law carnally or fleshly, they really don't see anything or what they do think they see they don't like, so they seek ways to scrub it out, to modify or nullify, and seek to eliminate it or change it to their own liking.
Been there done that myself, being misled by such presentations.
I gave an example of the Word in transition in the scriptures earlier in this thread. The Word did transition in many ways. But it was always The Same Word of God, Living and Active.
And ultimately, if The Word of God, Jesus Christ, lives in us, then so does every Word of God Abide and Live.
There is such a simple lesson here, straight from the Lips of God in Christ. And it's an unavoidable fact:
Luke 4:4
And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
When anyone seeks to eradicate The Word of God in Christ, they really just don't have much in the way of understanding how it is that The Word of God in Christ LIVES in them.
Yes, Every Word of Him. This can't be understood by the carnal mind or those who see the law or any Word of God in any other way but SPIRITUALLY.
Agreed.
Let's take a closer look at what the scripture actually says -
17 And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect.
The Abrahamic Covenant was made between The Lord and Abraham and was confirmed by God.
Now compare the language concerning the law -
19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator.
A.] it was added to the Abrahamic Covenant until... the Seed should come. The Seed being the mediator of the New Covenant.
B.] The law was appointed through angels. God Himself wrote on Tablets of Stone what His requirements were, which are God's law and Commandments. These are the Commandments that were the foundation of the Abrahamic Covenant and are eternal. [Murder was a crime from the beginning.] However we are to learn them by faith the way, directly from God as Abraham did, and as Adam was supposed to. He is the tree of Life.
The language says - cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ.
The language does not say - it does not nullify any covenants He has made previously.
The scripture says the law was appointed by angels. The mediator being Moses.
Please consider these things.
JLB
Jethro Bodine
Member
I would like to return your gift. (Yes, I know that gifts can not be given back according to the theology threads, lol) I have no need for false, misguided judgments and accusations.
Actually, Jethro (I know him well) believes that through his faith and knowledge in Christ, when it gets expressed in love for others, he fulfills and upholds the law of Moses. I think he said he believes that because in Romans 13:8-10 NASB Paul said the law gets fulfilled--not abolished, not set aside--when we love others. Jethro said Paul also said that when you walk in the fruit of the Spirit there is no law that stands against you...Galatians 5:22-23 NASB.
Are you saying I should not do what Jethro told me the Bible says to do?
"...put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth." (Ephesians 4:24 NASB)
"12 Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience." (Colossians 3:12 NIV)
"...clothe yourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ, and do not think about how to gratify the desires of the sinful nature." (Romans 13:14 NIV)
I'm pretty sure that if I knew the grace of God this is exactly what I would do. The new nature is the evidence of God's grace in a person's life. Not the lack of the new nature.
Let's find this person you keep referring to that thinks they perfect themselves and let's ask them. I only know of people like Jethro who know that it is God perfecting his nature inside of the believer through knowledge of the Holy One.
"...live a life worthy of the Lord and may please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God," (Colossians 1:10 NIV)
"...put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator." (Colossians 3:10 NIV)
"...the knowledge of the truth that leads to godliness..." (Titus 1:1 NIV)
TOG
Member
If God's covenants can be nullified, then how can we trust them? Maybe God will decide to nullify the covenant He made with Noah and flood the earth again. Or maybe He will nullify the covenant with Abraham and take the land of Israel away from the Jews. Or He might even decide to nullify the covenant made on Mt. Calvary and make a new way of salvation. In fact, maybe He already has. Some religions teach that there is a prophet for each time (usually with their prophet being the last) and that each person should follow the prophet for his time. They will usually teach that Moses was the prophet for his time and Jesus was the prophet for his. If God's covenants can be nullified, how do we know they're not right? Maybe we should be following Mohammed or Baha'u'llah or some other later prophet. If God cannot be trusted to keep His covenants eternally, then how can we have any assurance of salvation? But I say we can be sure. We can know that the covenant that God made on Calvary is still in effect and we can be sure of our salvation based on that covenant, because none of God's covenants can be nullified.
But let's look at the covenant you claim to be grafted onto - the Abrahamic covenant. It has only one requirement that had not been previously mentioned in the covenant with Noah, and that is circumcision. All males are to be circumcised when they are 8 days old. That applies not only to people, but also to animals. You have previously said on a number of occasions that people are required to keep the entire Sinai covenant if they keep any of it. Are you keeping the only commandment in the covenant you claim to be a member of? Are all males in your house circumcised, including your dog, cat, hamster or any other mammals you may have? If not, you should circumcise them and yourself immediately. Circumcision isn't only a commandment, it's the sign that shows you are part of the Abrahamic covenant.
The TOG
Jethro Bodine
Member
You're still not explaining how the law does not get abolished, but fulfilled, in this new covenant. In fact, you're saying it is discarded and in effect unfulfilled. Which is nothing more than abolishing it. Perhaps you simply do not know how the old covenant can be laid aside because of faith in Christ while the law gets fulfilled by that same faith, and therefore, you have invented a doctrine that leaves the law discarded and unfulfilled and in effect abolished altogether, even though the Bible plainly says Jesus did not come to do that. You should know full well no believer should be expected to believe a doctrine that directly contradicts Jesus' own words.
Do you think death for not entering into Sabbath Rest, or not appearing before the Lord at the appointed 'place' and 'time' has somehow been abolished? I see that lawful requirement for death being fulfilled in Christ's death on the cross, and the lawful requirement for Sabbath Rest and Festival observance being fulfilled by faith in Christ, not abolished as your doctrine insists. Your fundamental problem is you do not understand how a literal covenant of law can be laid aside, yet the law be fulfilled at the same time. That's why you have invented an unnecessary doctrine that abolishes the law, not upholds and fulfills it as both Paul and Jesus said faith in Christ does.
Look what the 'handwriting' is:
It's the handwritten debt of law we all owe God. The debt of law that we owe God is unpaid by all of us. The penalty for our transgression of the law requires death. God took all that out of the way by nailing the 'handwriting'--the handwritten debt of law and it's penalties--to the cross with Christ, having marked it 'paid in full'. Not because we somehow kept it, or even that Christ kept it, but because that debt of law is forgiven in Christ.
Then, in the same faith that secured that forgiveness of our debt of law and it's penalties, when we walk in the fruit of the Spirit we FULFILL THAT WHICH WE WERE ONCE GUILTY OF.
I'm only under the law insofar as faith upholds and fulfills it, not nullifies it when I have faith and walk in that faith by the fruit of the Spirit.
And it is only necessary to keep every literal jot and tittle of the law if you are seeking to be justified by that law. This is all explained in the Bible.
You've made this so complicated and contrary to the scriptures--scriptures which say the law of Moses gets fulfilled by faith, not nullified and unfulfilled as you have been saying it is. You simply do not know what it means for the old covenant to be laid aside by the new way of faith, while the law of Moses gets fulfilled by that same faith.
The problem is you think that the old covenant getting laid aside is somehow equivalent to the law of Moses not getting fulfilled. You do not understand the difference the law no longer being the covenant between man and God, and the law still being fulfilled by the people of God. That's why your doctrine is the one that directly contradicts Jesus' words that say he did not come to abolish the law. If you would just listen to what I'm saying you would understand and learn what the difference is.
The yoke of JUSTIFICATION BY THE LAW is what Peter does not want put on the gentiles. He is obviously not saying the requirements of the law, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc. are a yoke and a burden too heavy to bear. Those get fulfilled by faith in Christ, not abolished as you are interpreting Peter's words to mean.
Honestly, it's you that can not hear how the old covenant got laid aside and how it gets fulfilled, not abolished, in this New Covenant. You've completely missed the teaching in the Bible about this and invented a false doctrine that does what Jesus said he did not come to do--abolish the law. You are at a loss to explain how the old covenant is laid aside while the law is fulfilled in this New Covenant. You can't even recognize the difference between the law being a covenant and the law itself.
It's amazing that you can't see that to invent this 'two law' doctrine is to effectively abolish the law of Moses--the very thing Jesus said he did NOT come to do. You say 'do not murder' in the law of Moses got abolished in favor of a different law of 'do not murder'. It's impossible to say this since Jesus said he did NOT come to abolish the law.
smaller
Member
Indeed above. The Word is not a matter entirely comprised of print on paper whatsoever. To understand The Word, we look at the Nature of Him.
Psalm 119:160
Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever.
1 Peter 1:25
But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.
Fleshly ordinance is dished out abundantly for fleshly eyes to stumble with.
The Word Himself was MASKED in this way, IN FLESH. He put on a flesh veil, His Image. His Son. His Own Self.
These are matters that require spiritual understandings. Flesh eyes are doomed to not see, try as they might.
The scripture makes it clear.
Now may the God of peace who brought up our Lord Jesus from the dead, that great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, Hebrews 13:20
17 "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. Matthew 5:17-18
Jesus came to fulfill the Law. If you don't think He fulfilled the law then please go ahead and do all that the law commands you to do, or be under a curse.
... one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
The law was added until the Seed should come.
If you read what the scriptures actually say -
the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ.
The law was not so.
The scripture says the law was appointed by angels.
Do you have a scripture that says the law was confirmed before by God in Christ?
The law was added until... the Seed should come.
Till has come... The Seed has come.
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. Hebrews 9:15
He has made the first Covenant Obsolete.
JLB
You're still not explaining how the law does not get abolished, but fulfilled, in this new covenant. In fact, you're saying it is discarded and in effect unfulfilled. Which is nothing more than abolishing it. Perhaps you simply do not know how the old covenant can be laid aside because of faith in Christ while the law gets fulfilled by that same faith, and therefore, you have invented a doctrine that leaves the law discarded and unfulfilled and in effect abolished altogether, even though the Bible plainly says Jesus did not come to do that. You should know full well no believer should be expected to believe a doctrine that directly contradicts Jesus' own words.
Do you think death for not entering into Sabbath Rest, or not appearing before the Lord at the appointed 'place' and 'time' has somehow been abolished? I see that lawful requirement for death being fulfilled in Christ's death on the cross, and the lawful requirement for Sabbath Rest and Festival observance being fulfilled by faith in Christ, not abolished as your doctrine insists. Your fundamental problem is you do not understand how a literal covenant of law can be laid aside, yet the law be fulfilled at the same time. That's why you have invented an unnecessary doctrine that abolishes the law, not upholds and fulfills it as both Paul and Jesus said faith in Christ does.
Look what the 'handwriting' is:
It's the handwritten debt of law we all owe God. The debt of law that we owe God is unpaid by all of us. The penalty for our transgression of the law requires death. God took all that out of the way by nailing the 'handwriting'--the handwritten debt of law and it's penalties--to the cross with Christ, having marked it 'paid in full'. Not because we somehow kept it, or even that Christ kept it, but because that debt of law is forgiven in Christ.
Then, in the same faith that secured that forgiveness of our debt of law and it's penalties, when we walk in the fruit of the Spirit we FULFILL THAT WHICH WE WERE ONCE GUILTY OF.
I'm only under the law insofar as faith upholds and fulfills it, not nullifies it when I have faith and walk in that faith by the fruit of the Spirit.
And it is only necessary to keep every literal jot and tittle of the law if you are seeking to be justified by that law. This is all explained in the Bible.
You've made this so complicated and contrary to the scriptures--scriptures which say the law of Moses gets fulfilled by faith, not nullified and unfulfilled as you have been saying it is. You simply do not know what it means for the old covenant to be laid aside by the new way of faith, while the law of Moses gets fulfilled by that same faith.
The problem is you think that the old covenant getting laid aside is somehow equivalent to the law of Moses not getting fulfilled. You do not understand the difference the law no longer being the covenant between man and God, and the law still being fulfilled by the people of God. That's why your doctrine is the one that directly contradicts Jesus' words that say he did not come to abolish the law. If you would just listen to what I'm saying you would understand and learn what the difference is.
The yoke of JUSTIFICATION BY THE LAW is what Peter does not want put on the gentiles. He is obviously not saying the requirements of the law, 'do not steal', 'do not lie', etc. are a yoke and a burden too heavy to bear. Those get fulfilled by faith in Christ, not abolished as you are interpreting Peter's words to mean.
Honestly, it's you that can not hear how the old covenant got laid aside and how it gets fulfilled, not abolished, in this New Covenant. You've completely missed the teaching in the Bible about this and invented a false doctrine that does what Jesus said he did not come to do--abolish the law. You are at a loss to explain how the old covenant is laid aside while the law is fulfilled in this New Covenant. You can't even recognize the difference between the law being a covenant and the law itself.
It's amazing that you can't see that to invent this 'two law' doctrine is to effectively abolish the law of Moses--the very thing Jesus said he did NOT come to do. You say 'do not murder' in the law of Moses got abolished in favor of a different law of 'do not murder'. It's impossible to say this since Jesus said he did NOT come to abolish the law.
The law has been fulfilled, and therefore He has made it obsolete, having nailed it to the cross, He has taken it out of the way.
JLB
DiscipleDave
Member
The Old testament laws were indeed fulfilled by Jesus Christ, however the prophesies that are in the Old Testament have not yet been fulfilled. That is why the end of the verse it plainly says "till all be fulfilled" The Old Testament laws no longer apply today, but we still have the Old Testament because it is not yet fulfilled. click HERE to see an article which shows Scriptures that prove we do not have to obey the Old Testament and its laws.
^i^