Is the Resurrection of Life eternal?

[chessman]

Do not be astonished at this, because an hour is coming in which all those in the tombs will hear his voice and they will come out—those who have done good things to a resurrection of life, but those who have practiced evil things to a resurrection of judgment.​

John 5:28-29 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 5:28-29&version=LEB

That's going to be a real bummer for those of us who were cremated. :wink

Actually, the word “tombs” or sepulcher has a meaning of “any place of remembrance”. I cannot think of a better or more permanent place of remembrance to be than to be “in Christ”. I mean after all, The Son has been remembering the things He’s seen His Father doing for a very long time.

Therefore Jesus responded and was saying to them— “Truly, truly, I say to you— the Son can do nothing from Himself except something He sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One is doing, these things the Son is also likewise doing.​

John 5:19 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=John 5:19&version=DLNT

 

[FreeGrace]

I see nothing in what you wrote that pertains to the subject of the resurrection of life.

From your posts, I wonder about your understanding of what the resurrecgtion of life means. Please provide a brief explanation of what it means from your understanding.

This is what He said about the resurrection of life.

"those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,"

OK, please explain what "done good" means from your understanding. By that, I mean specifically.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Does John 5:24 provide any context for v.28? How so?

If you have a scripture that says those who have done evil will come forth in the resurrection of life, then please share it with us to examine and discuss.
JLB

[edited]

 

[JLB]

From your posts, I wonder about your understanding of what the resurrecgtion of life means. Please provide a brief explanation of what it means from your understanding.


OK, please explain what "done good" means from your understanding. By that, I mean specifically.


Does John 5:24 provide any context for v.28? How so?


I've already addressed this most bizarre comment. Please read my posts before replying. It'll save a lot of wasted time in repeating unnecessary stuff.

Yes, save yourself a lot of time and read who will come forth at the resurrection of life.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29


Jesus plainly stated who will come forth in the resurrection of (eternal) life.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Faith is Christ Jesus in whom we believe. If we quit believing we are no longer going to be given eternal life

Excuse me, but I requested Scripture that backs up this notion. Just repeating an opinion does not rise to the level of providing evidence.

but only that of damnation when Christ comes and calls all (saint and sinner) from their grave, John 5:28, 29.

Nothing here about being damned if one ceases to believe. So, where can that idea be found?

Jesus was clear about those He gives eternal life in John 10:28. They SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Seems your view is quite different from what He said.

Jesus gives eternal life to all who will believe in Him as He is our faith in whom we believe in.

Yes, He did say that in John 10:28. But He went on to say the result of being a recipient of eternal life in that same verse: "they SHALL NEVER PERISH".

Why is your view different from what Jesus said in John 10:28b?

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

How does this verse support the notion that ceasing to believe results in damnation?

John 15: 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me. 5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. 6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

Using a farming metaphor for a literal interpretation is dangerous. Second, if one takes the command to "abide in Me" means that one has the power to remove themselves from Him, then the conclusion is that the believer has the power to remove and negate ALL that God did for the believer when they believed.

So, let's review what God does for everyone who believes, WHEN they believe:
1. saves the believer - Acts 16:31
2. seals the believer IN CHRIST with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption - Eph 1:13,14
3. gives the free gift of eternal life to the believer - John 6:47 with John 10:28
4. regenerates the believer - Titus 3:5

So, if it is true that the believer has the personal power to remove and negate ALL that God has done for the believer, where is the evidence, since John 15 says nothing about that.

In fact, Paul made it clear that "neither things present nor things to come" from Rom 8:38 can separate the believer from the love of God.

John 10: 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: 28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

Yes, v.28 is a very clear statement of eternal security for those given eternal life. Couldn't be any more clear.

1 John 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise

We are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise as that promise is eternal life to all who by faith believe in Christ. Many have walked away from faith and no longer believe so they have not the promise anymore.

This suggests that God does not keep His promises, since there are NO VERSES that say that God's promises are cancelled by ceasing to believe.

Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Unfortunately, v.22 was omitted, which provides the CONTEXT for the RESULT of continuing in the faith. v.23 only gives the premise.

So, let's examine the actual context for v.23 and continuing in the faith:
v.22 - But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

So, there is the premise: "to present you holy in His sight, w/o blemish and free from accusation".

The ONLY WAY for God to present one who has believed as holy and without blemish/accusation is IF they continue in the faith.

If one doesn't continue in the faith, then it should be obvious that God cannot present that one as holy, and w/o blemish/accusation.

So, Col 1:23 has nothing to do with losing salvation if one doesn't continue in the faith. Zero.

Faith is the requirement as long as we are not moved away from the hope of the gospel.

Please provide any verse that makes this statement.

Go back to Ephesians 1:13 we are only sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, but yet not saved as we have to endure all things until the end when Christ returns and then we are saved, Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

This is unfortunately a terrible conflation of different verses that have NO CONTEXT between them.

Please shoe me the actual words in Eph 1:13 or 14 that says anything about being "ONLY sealed" but "not yet saved".

The very idea that one can be sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit but not yet saved is beyond ridiculous.

Matthew 24:12, 13 to endure until the end means enduring everything from now today through that of the seventh trumpets and seven vial judgements as then the end will come when Christ returns on the last day after the tribulations that will take place in the world

No it doesn't mean that at all. The CONTEXT is clear. "The end" refers to the end of the Tribulation, and there is nothing in those verses to even hint that it applies before the Tribulation.

John 6:40; John 5:28, 29. There is no pretrib rapture as all who are alive during the seven trumpets sounding and the seven vial judgements are sealed by the holy Spirit of promise that Gods wrath will not touch those who are His own and when all is finished the old heaven and earth will have passed away and a new heaven and earth will become new again and New Jerusalem will be ushered down from heaven and we who have endured will then have eternal life with the Father.

OK, so if only those who have endured will be given eternal life, as your final sentence states, then eternal life is given on the basis of one's own actions, efforts, and works. Interesting. That's pretty much what the Pharisees in Jesus' day believed. And Jesus condemned them severely for their belief.

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The words "come to Me" means to believe in Christ. That's how one receives eternal life. No other way.

Regarding "enduring", Paul made clear what that refers to: eternal reward
2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

I think it's clear that "endure" and "deny" are opposites. Even Peter denied Christ 3 times, but there is not even a hint that he lost his saved status at any time.

 

[JLB]

Yes, He did. From John 3;15,16,36, 5:24, 6;47, 11:25-27 He was clear: those who believe possess eternal life. So it's those who HAVE eternal life.

There is no scriptures here that refer to the resurrection of life.



JLB

 

[JLB]

OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?

Promises that are conditional, must have the condition fulfilled for the promise to be fulfilled.

Example: The condition of forgiveness of sin.

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Matthew 18:22

32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.” Mathew 18:32-35

The promise of sins forgiven, when we first believed, can indeed be reinstated if we have unforgivness toward others, resulting in us paying the penalty for them.

• So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.

This is just one example of believing, then later we no longer believe and go back to our old life and ways.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Here’s my “explanation” of who will come forth in the resurrection of life.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life

If you can still die, the you have not come forth in the resurrection of life, whereby you can not die anymore.

Apparently the FACT that everyone will be resurrected for the day of judgment then.

nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection. Luke 20:35-36

Yes, this refers specifically and ONLY for those who have been given the free gift of eternal life. They shall never perish. John 10:28

Amen and amen!!

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
Yes, He did. From John 3;15,16,36, 5:24, 6;47, 11:25-27 He was clear: those who believe possess eternal life. So it's those who HAVE eternal life.

There is no scriptures here that refer to the resurrection of life.

Of course not. That wasn't even my point. My point was about having eternal life. Those who have been given eternal life will experience the resurrection of life.

 

[FreeGrace]

I asked:
"OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?"

Promises that are conditional, must have the condition fulfilled for the promise to be fulfilled.

Interesting theory, but where is the proof or evidence about having to continue to believe in order to finally be saved?

Instead, Jesus was clear about how to never perish: be given eternal life, from John 10:28.

And Jesus was equally as clear about how to be given eternal life; to believe in Him, from John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27.

Example: The condition of forgiveness of sin.

21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven.
Matthew 18:22

There is nothing about any condition of forgiveness of sin here.

Those who are interested in the condition for a believer to be forgiven of sin is found here:
1 John 1:9 - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

For unbelievers, the condition for forgiveness is found here:
Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

So, we see from Scripture that forensic forgiveness of all sin comes by faith in Christ per Acts 10:43. And fellowship for the believer is restored by confession of sin, per 1 John 1:9.

 

[for_his_glory]

Excuse me, but I requested Scripture that backs up this notion. Just repeating an opinion does not rise to the level of providing evidence.


Nothing here about being damned if one ceases to believe. So, where can that idea be found?

Jesus was clear about those He gives eternal life in John 10:28. They SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Seems your view is quite different from what He said.


Yes, He did say that in John 10:28. But He went on to say the result of being a recipient of eternal life in that same verse: "they SHALL NEVER PERISH".

Why is your view different from what Jesus said in John 10:28b?


How does this verse support the notion that ceasing to believe results in damnation?


Using a farming metaphor for a literal interpretation is dangerous. Second, if one takes the command to "abide in Me" means that one has the power to remove themselves from Him, then the conclusion is that the believer has the power to remove and negate ALL that God did for the believer when they believed.

So, let's review what God does for everyone who believes, WHEN they believe:
1. saves the believer - Acts 16:31
2. seals the believer IN CHRIST with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption - Eph 1:13,14
3. gives the free gift of eternal life to the believer - John 6:47 with John 10:28
4. regenerates the believer - Titus 3:5

So, if it is true that the believer has the personal power to remove and negate ALL that God has done for the believer, where is the evidence, since John 15 says nothing about that.

In fact, Paul made it clear that "neither things present nor things to come" from Rom 8:38 can separate the believer from the love of God.


Yes, v.28 is a very clear statement of eternal security for those given eternal life. Couldn't be any more clear.


OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?


This suggests that God does not keep His promises, since there are NO VERSES that say that God's promises are cancelled by ceasing to believe.


Unfortunately, v.22 was omitted, which provides the CONTEXT for the RESULT of continuing in the faith. v.23 only gives the premise.

So, let's examine the actual context for v.23 and continuing in the faith:
v.22 - But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

So, there is the premise: "to present you holy in His sight, w/o blemish and free from accusation".

The ONLY WAY for God to present one who has believed as holy and without blemish/accusation is IF they continue in the faith.

If one doesn't continue in the faith, then it should be obvious that God cannot present that one as holy, and w/o blemish/accusation.

So, Col 1:23 has nothing to do with losing salvation if one doesn't continue in the faith. Zero.


Please provide any verse that makes this statement.


This is unfortunately a terrible conflation of different verses that have NO CONTEXT between them.

Please shoe me the actual words in Eph 1:13 or 14 that says anything about being "ONLY sealed" but "not yet saved".

The very idea that one can be sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit but not yet saved is beyond ridiculous.


No it doesn't mean that at all. The CONTEXT is clear. "The end" refers to the end of the Tribulation, and there is nothing in those verses to even hint that it applies before the Tribulation.


OK, so if only those who have endured will be given eternal life, as your final sentence states, then eternal life is given on the basis of one's own actions, efforts, and works. Interesting. That's pretty much what the Pharisees in Jesus' day believed. And Jesus condemned them severely for their belief.

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The words "come to Me" means to believe in Christ. That's how one receives eternal life. No other way.

Regarding "enduring", Paul made clear what that refers to: eternal reward
2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

I think it's clear that "endure" and "deny" are opposites. Even Peter denied Christ 3 times, but there is not even a hint that he lost his saved status at any time.

It's not my opinion, but that of what is already in scripture that I have given you, but you refuse to see it. Again here are a few more that say the same as I have been saying.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

If we are none of His anymore as we quit believing renouncing Jesus as our Lord and Savior do you really think we still have eternal life with the Father?

In John 10:28 Jesus is very clear that it is His sheep that hear His voice will receive eternal life and never perish and no one can pluck His sheep out of His hands as it also says in Romans 8:38, 39, but many end up turning a deaf ear to Jesus and completely walk away never to return back to Him again.

My view is no different then what Jesus has already said, but it is you that thinks no one could ever walk away from Him.

You said there was no scripture that said all who are in Christ, but 2 Corinthians 5:17 clearly says this. Also read 1 John 2:23 also gives a condition if that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you then we have the promise of eternal life.

Any time you see the words and, if, but are conjunctions of conditions that as long as we remain in Christ we will have eternal life. Gods promises are conditional that we abide in Him, but if we are not abiding then we are not remaining in His will anymore and are none of His.

We are either for Christ or against Christ as many have come to Him, but have allowed themselves to be plucked out of His hands as they no longer believe and have denounced Jesus and also blasphemed against the Holy Spirit where there is no forgiveness. Do you really think that those who have walked completely away from faith and no longer believe will still have eternal life, I don't think so, but you can refute it all you want as it will not change what has already been written.

 

[for_his_glory]

Excuse me, but I requested Scripture that backs up this notion. Just repeating an opinion does not rise to the level of providing evidence.


Nothing here about being damned if one ceases to believe. So, where can that idea be found?

Jesus was clear about those He gives eternal life in John 10:28. They SHALL NEVER PERISH.

Seems your view is quite different from what He said.


Yes, He did say that in John 10:28. But He went on to say the result of being a recipient of eternal life in that same verse: "they SHALL NEVER PERISH".

Why is your view different from what Jesus said in John 10:28b?


How does this verse support the notion that ceasing to believe results in damnation?


Using a farming metaphor for a literal interpretation is dangerous. Second, if one takes the command to "abide in Me" means that one has the power to remove themselves from Him, then the conclusion is that the believer has the power to remove and negate ALL that God did for the believer when they believed.

So, let's review what God does for everyone who believes, WHEN they believe:
1. saves the believer - Acts 16:31
2. seals the believer IN CHRIST with the Holy Spirit, who is a deposit GUARANTEEING the believer's inheritance for the day of redemption - Eph 1:13,14
3. gives the free gift of eternal life to the believer - John 6:47 with John 10:28
4. regenerates the believer - Titus 3:5

So, if it is true that the believer has the personal power to remove and negate ALL that God has done for the believer, where is the evidence, since John 15 says nothing about that.

In fact, Paul made it clear that "neither things present nor things to come" from Rom 8:38 can separate the believer from the love of God.


Yes, v.28 is a very clear statement of eternal security for those given eternal life. Couldn't be any more clear.


OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?


This suggests that God does not keep His promises, since there are NO VERSES that say that God's promises are cancelled by ceasing to believe.


Unfortunately, v.22 was omitted, which provides the CONTEXT for the RESULT of continuing in the faith. v.23 only gives the premise.

So, let's examine the actual context for v.23 and continuing in the faith:
v.22 - But now he has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation—

So, there is the premise: "to present you holy in His sight, w/o blemish and free from accusation".

The ONLY WAY for God to present one who has believed as holy and without blemish/accusation is IF they continue in the faith.

If one doesn't continue in the faith, then it should be obvious that God cannot present that one as holy, and w/o blemish/accusation.

So, Col 1:23 has nothing to do with losing salvation if one doesn't continue in the faith. Zero.


Please provide any verse that makes this statement.


This is unfortunately a terrible conflation of different verses that have NO CONTEXT between them.

Please shoe me the actual words in Eph 1:13 or 14 that says anything about being "ONLY sealed" but "not yet saved".

The very idea that one can be sealed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit but not yet saved is beyond ridiculous.


No it doesn't mean that at all. The CONTEXT is clear. "The end" refers to the end of the Tribulation, and there is nothing in those verses to even hint that it applies before the Tribulation.


OK, so if only those who have endured will be given eternal life, as your final sentence states, then eternal life is given on the basis of one's own actions, efforts, and works. Interesting. That's pretty much what the Pharisees in Jesus' day believed. And Jesus condemned them severely for their belief.

John 5:39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

The words "come to Me" means to believe in Christ. That's how one receives eternal life. No other way.

Regarding "enduring", Paul made clear what that refers to: eternal reward
2 Tim 2:12 - if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we deny him, he will also deny us;

I think it's clear that "endure" and "deny" are opposites. Even Peter denied Christ 3 times, but there is not even a hint that he lost his saved status at any time.

Could you make your post shorter as there is way to much to reply to as much of it is repeating itself. Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

It's not my opinion, but that of what is already in scripture that I have given you, but you refuse to see it. Again here are a few more that say the same as I have been saying.

I have provided very clear Scripture about eternal security. I've seen no verses that address losing salvation.

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. 7 As they were increased, so they sinned against me: therefore will I change their glory into shame.

I'm not sure why this is being used as support for losing salvation. How did God reject His people? By removing His blessings to them. But nothing about removing salvation. If the verse actually said that God was removing salvation, then there would be a point.

Romans 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This verse is a description of a believer; one who has the Spirit dwelling in them. If the Spirit is not in someone, they are "none of His". Clear enough. I've not yet seen any verse from the NT that actually says God removes the Holy Spirit from anyone, for any reason.

Even when a believer grieves the Spirit, Paul was clear that, in spite of doing so, the believer is sealed for the day of redemption. Pretty clear to me. Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

If anyone coud be "unsealed" by removal of the Holy Spirit, it seems this would be just the verse. Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit a bad thing?

Galatians 3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Nothing here about losing salvation, or being unsealed from the Holy Spirit. Paul was taking the Galatians to task for returning to the Law.

If we are none of His anymore as we quit believing renouncing Jesus as our Lord and Savior do you really think we still have eternal life with the Father?

Yes, because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28

In John 10:28 Jesus is very clear that it is His sheep that hear His voice will receive eternal life and never perish and no one can pluck His sheep out of His hands as it also says in Romans 8:38, 39, but many end up turning a deaf ear to Jesus and completely walk away never to return back to Him again.

Both John 10:28 and Rom 8:38,39 are about eternal security, so no matter HOW one lives after having been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus. We must not mix our emotions with doctrine. While it's a very horrible thing for any believer to walk away from the Lord, or even quit believing, none of that can remove salvation or eternal life from one who has been given eternal life. And no verse says so.

My view is no different then what Jesus has already said, but it is you that thinks no one could ever walk away from Him.

Absolutely not. Of course I am aware that believers can and do walk away from Him. But WHY would one think that God breaks His promise of recipients never perishing because of any reason??

You said there was no scripture that said all who are in Christ, but 2 Corinthians 5:17 clearly says this.

Say what??!! I'm confused by this charge, whatever it means. Please refer to the post where I supposedly said "there was no Scripture that said all who are in Christ". What is the context for this supposed statement?

Also read 1 John 2:23 also gives a condition if that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you then we have the promise of eternal life.

Let's examine the verse:
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

If this verse applied to anyone who previously believed and received eternal life, then what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life cannot be true, nor what Paul said in Eph 1:13,14. Therefore, this verse cannot be referring to those who have already believed.

Any time you see the words and, if, but are conjunctions of conditions that as long as we remain in Christ we will have eternal life.

Since I believe the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life, I understand that the commands to "continue in the faith" and "abide in Him", etc are referring to maintaining fellowship with Him. Please read the first chapter of 1 John and count the times "fellowship" is mentioned. It's 4. That's important, not incidental.

It seems to me that many people have no understanding of what fellowship with Jesus means or looks like.

First, how do we get out of fellowship with the Lord? By grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).

Now, what does being in fellowship with the Lord look like? We are filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by means of the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

So, how does one restore fellowship following sin? Confession of sin, per 1 John 1:9.

Gods promises are conditional that we abide in Him, but if we are not abiding then we are not remaining in His will anymore and are none of His.

No, the Bible does not teach this. This contradicts what Jesus and Paul taught.

We are either for Christ or against Christ as many have come to Him, but have allowed themselves to be plucked out of His hands as they no longer believe

Jesus never said anything like this. In fact, what He actually did say in John 10:28,29 is that NO ONE (that means any person) can remove (pluck) the one who has believed from His hands. The "no one" therefore includes the believer himself.

IOW, no person has the ability or power to remove themself from God's hand. If that were possible, the Bible would very plainly warn about it. But there are no warnings about that.

and have denounced Jesus and also blasphemed against the Holy Spirit where there is no forgiveness. Do you really think that those who have walked completely away from faith and no longer believe will still have eternal life, I don't think so, but you can refute it all you want as it will not change what has already been written.

I have provided Scripture that does refute the view that salvation can be lost.

As I've shown in my explanations of each verse provided from your posts, none of those verses says salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace]

Could you make your post shorter as there is way to much to reply to as much of it is repeating itself. Thank you.

My responses are guided by what others post. Maybe there could be less points in yours?

 

[WinterPuma]

Those who are in Christ cannot lose the Salvation that was the gift from God himself. God is not a man that he would lie and as such when we are told God's gifts to us are irrevocable that pertains to Salvation. It is eternal salvation. Not conditional salvation.

Those who are in Christ return to the Father when we die. Jesus brought forth a very simple truth that he gave his life for. Rather than regurgitate what appears on searching to be an oft repeated claim that Salvation is not all that Jesus died to guarantee, maybe we should ask ourselves why we would argue with that ideology that opposes the truth of Christ's sacrifice and God's promise in the first place.

 

[WIP]

Those who are in Christ cannot lose the Salvation that was the gift from God himself. God is not a man that he would lie and as such when we are told God's gifts to us are irrevocable that pertains to Salvation. It is eternal salvation. Not conditional salvation.

Those who are in Christ return to the Father when we die. Jesus brought forth a very simple truth that he gave his life for. Rather than regurgitate what appears on searching to be an oft repeated claim that Salvation is not all that Jesus died to guarantee, maybe we should ask ourselves why we would argue with that ideology that opposes the truth of Christ's sacrifice and God's promise in the first place.

Do you believe that a person can believe and accept Jesus as his/her savior and then later reject Jesus, curse Him and everything He stands for and put his/her commitment, faith, and trust in Satan, bowing down and worshiping him as god and still be saved?

 

[WinterPuma]

Do you believe that a person can believe and accept Jesus as his/her savior and then later reject Jesus, curse Him and everything He stands for and put his/her commitment, faith, and trust in Satan, bowing down and worshiping him as god and still be saved?

Well you see, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what Jesus taught, and died to deliver to the world according to his Father's will, as an irrevocable gift of grace.

 

[MCoop]

Those who are in Christ cannot lose the Salvation that was the gift from God himself. God is not a man that he would lie and as such when we are told God's gifts to us are irrevocable that pertains to Salvation. It is eternal salvation. Not conditional salvation.

Those who are in Christ return to the Father when we die. Jesus brought forth a very simple truth that he gave his life for. Rather than regurgitate what appears on searching to be an oft repeated claim that Salvation is not all that Jesus died to guarantee, maybe we should ask ourselves why we would argue with that ideology that opposes the truth of Christ's sacrifice and God's promise in the first place.

Yes correct. Salvation is all of grace in Christ. The ideology that opposes this truth is man centered and a rejection of the gospel and the promises that come with it. And failing to see the power of God and what salvation brings to a dead sinner, is why works based salvation is promoted

 

[MCoop]

Do you believe that a person can believe and accept Jesus as his/her savior and then later reject Jesus, curse Him and everything He stands for and put his/her commitment, faith, and trust in Satan, bowing down and worshiping him as god and still be saved?

This is a silly question. This person who once professed faith in Christ is obviously not saved and never was to begin with. Faith and repentance are fruit of a believer, by the life giving power of the resurrection of Christ. All of grace

 

[WinterPuma]

This is a silly question. This person who once professed faith in Christ is obviously not saved and never was to begin with. Faith and repentance are fruit of a believer, by the life giving power of the resurrection of Christ. All of grace

Well said.
And yet, if someone did fall away and by trusting in Satan demonstrated that trust by going the way of the world as in, drinking, using drugs, fornicating. Or, let us imagine that person did decide to worship the adversary. Were they in Christ when they sincerely repented of their sins and were Baptized and lived as a Christian for a time, they would remain in Christ even after falling away.
Because God's gifts that are irrevocable are bestowed on those whom he knew would come to his son Jesus before the creation of the world. The all knowing , all powerful, creator of all that is, was, or shall be, knew this to the point that he wrote the names of the redeemed in Christ down in the Lambs Book of Life. Those who would be eternally his and their sins covered under the blood of his only begotten son that hadn't even been born into the earth yet, God knew first and by name.
And later when Jesus did walk the earth and deliver his ministry here he told us of this truth. He knows his sheep by name and they know his voice and hearken to his call of their name.
We can never lose our Salvation.
When God says that why would anyone who is in Christ argue he didn't mean it?


Even a Pharisee who once murdered Apostate Jews who followed the teachings of Christ the Messiah knew this was all truth. That we can never lose our Salvation.

2 Timothy 2
8 Remember Jesus Christ, risen from the dead, a descendant[a] of David, in accordance with my gospel, 9 for which I am suffering, even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But the word of God is not chained. 10 For this reason I endure all things for the sake of the elect, so that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, along with eternal glory. 11 This saying is trustworthy:

Indeed, if we have died with him, we will also live with him;
12 If we endure, we will also reign with him;
If we deny him, he will also deny us;
13 If we are faithless, he remains faithful, because he cannot deny himself.


1 Corinthians 1 (This is a very important chapter becasue it also talks about and to division in the church. Which is what is about when there are denominational allegiances that argue God's gifts are revocable)
4.I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— 6 even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

Isaiah 49:15-16
15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child, that she should have no compassion on the son of her womb?Even these may forget,​

yet I will not forget you.16 Behold, I have engraved you on the palms of my hands;

your walls are continually before me.​

 

[reba]

The line they were never saved is a big reason that theology is blaise.