Is the Resurrection of Life eternal?

[chessman]

If anyone coud be "unsealed" by removal of the Holy Spirit, it seems this would be just the verse. Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit a bad thing?

Do you think it grieves the Spirit when a believer claims that the very One who raised Christ from the dead will not also raise those in whom the Spirit dwells?

I mean, wow. Why in the world do people think the Advocate doesn’t actually Advocate as needed??? Kinda the Spirit’s job description and He’s pretty good at His job, no?

Kinda like our High Priest is pretty good at His job too. Some (but evidently not all) might even say completely capable of interceding and saving us (body and spirit).

Hence also, He is able to save completely the ones coming-to God through Him, always living so as to intercede for them.​

Hebrews 7:25 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 7:25&version=DLNT

And the One searching our hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He is interceding for the saints in accordance with God.​

Romans 8:27 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 8:27&version=DLNT

Imagine that, searching our little ole hearts and yet knowing (intimately) the mind of the Spirit. Now there’s advocacy!

Must he very grieving to The Spirit and our High Priest when their work is underestimated by a believer.

 

[for_his_glory]

I have provided very clear Scripture about eternal security. I've seen no verses that address losing salvation.


I'm not sure why this is being used as support for losing salvation. How did God reject His people? By removing His blessings to them. But nothing about removing salvation. If the verse actually said that God was removing salvation, then there would be a point.


This verse is a description of a believer; one who has the Spirit dwelling in them. If the Spirit is not in someone, they are "none of His". Clear enough. I've not yet seen any verse from the NT that actually says God removes the Holy Spirit from anyone, for any reason.

Even when a believer grieves the Spirit, Paul was clear that, in spite of doing so, the believer is sealed for the day of redemption. Pretty clear to me. Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

If anyone coud be "unsealed" by removal of the Holy Spirit, it seems this would be just the verse. Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit a bad thing?


Nothing here about losing salvation, or being unsealed from the Holy Spirit. Paul was taking the Galatians to task for returning to the Law.


Yes, because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28


Both John 10:28 and Rom 8:38,39 are about eternal security, so no matter HOW one lives after having been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus. We must not mix our emotions with doctrine. While it's a very horrible thing for any believer to walk away from the Lord, or even quit believing, none of that can remove salvation or eternal life from one who has been given eternal life. And no verse says so.


Absolutely not. Of course I am aware that believers can and do walk away from Him. But WHY would one think that God breaks His promise of recipients never perishing because of any reason??


Say what??!! I'm confused by this charge, whatever it means. Please refer to the post where I supposedly said "there was no Scripture that said all who are in Christ". What is the context for this supposed statement?


Let's examine the verse:
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

If this verse applied to anyone who previously believed and received eternal life, then what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life cannot be true, nor what Paul said in Eph 1:13,14. Therefore, this verse cannot be referring to those who have already believed.


Since I believe the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life, I understand that the commands to "continue in the faith" and "abide in Him", etc are referring to maintaining fellowship with Him. Please read the first chapter of 1 John and count the times "fellowship" is mentioned. It's 4. That's important, not incidental.

It seems to me that many people have no understanding of what fellowship with Jesus means or looks like.

First, how do we get out of fellowship with the Lord? By grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).

Now, what does being in fellowship with the Lord look like? We are filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by means of the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

So, how does one restore fellowship following sin? Confession of sin, per 1 John 1:9.


No, the Bible does not teach this. This contradicts what Jesus and Paul taught.


Jesus never said anything like this. In fact, what He actually did say in John 10:28,29 is that NO ONE (that means any person) can remove (pluck) the one who has believed from His hands. The "no one" therefore includes the believer himself.

IOW, no person has the ability or power to remove themself from God's hand. If that were possible, the Bible would very plainly warn about it. But there are no warnings about that.


I have provided Scripture that does refute the view that salvation can be lost.

As I've shown in my explanations of each verse provided from your posts, none of those verses says salvation can be lost.

You said: "Both John 10:28 and Rom 8:38,39 are about eternal security, so no matter HOW one lives after having been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus. We must not mix our emotions with doctrine. While it's a very horrible thing for any believer to walk away from the Lord, or even quit believing, none of that can remove salvation or eternal life from one who has been given eternal life. And no verse says so."

So, by what you have stated here about no matter how one lives I can go out and be a murder, a theif etc. etc. and still have eternal life, interesting!!!

You said: "Absolutely not. Of course I am aware that believers can and do walk away from Him. But WHY would one think that God breaks His promise of recipients never perishing because of any reason??

Recipients are those who never lose faith as they are grounded in it and continue to believe no matter what tries to come against them. Many are not grounded and do fall away never to come back.

Back in post # 35 you said: "1. The Bible never says that Jesus gives eternal life to "all who are in Him and He in them". In fact, it doesn't even say "all who are in Him".

I replied back with 2 Corinthians 5:17 to show where it does say, all who are in Christ.

You said: "Since I believe the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life, I understand that the commands to "continue in the faith" and "abide in Him", etc are referring to maintaining fellowship with Him. Please read the first chapter of 1 John and count the times "fellowship" is mentioned. It's 4. That's important, not incidental.

Read the conditions in your statement - continue in faith, abide in Him and maintaining fellowship. If these conditions are not met then we are none of His. Scripture teaches us about these conditions and it also says some will depart from these conditions. 1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[JLB]

I asked:
"OK, question: does God EVER go back on any of His promises? Yes or no?"

I have provided very clear Scripture about eternal security. I've seen no verses that address losing salvation.


I'm not sure why this is being used as support for losing salvation. How did God reject His people? By removing His blessings to them. But nothing about removing salvation. If the verse actually said that God was removing salvation, then there would be a point.


This verse is a description of a believer; one who has the Spirit dwelling in them. If the Spirit is not in someone, they are "none of His". Clear enough. I've not yet seen any verse from the NT that actually says God removes the Holy Spirit from anyone, for any reason.

Even when a believer grieves the Spirit, Paul was clear that, in spite of doing so, the believer is sealed for the day of redemption. Pretty clear to me. Eph 4:30 - And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

If anyone coud be "unsealed" by removal of the Holy Spirit, it seems this would be just the verse. Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit a bad thing?


Nothing here about losing salvation, or being unsealed from the Holy Spirit. Paul was taking the Galatians to task for returning to the Law.


Yes, because Jesus said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish. John 10:28


Both John 10:28 and Rom 8:38,39 are about eternal security, so no matter HOW one lives after having been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus. We must not mix our emotions with doctrine. While it's a very horrible thing for any believer to walk away from the Lord, or even quit believing, none of that can remove salvation or eternal life from one who has been given eternal life. And no verse says so.


Absolutely not. Of course I am aware that believers can and do walk away from Him. But WHY would one think that God breaks His promise of recipients never perishing because of any reason??


Say what??!! I'm confused by this charge, whatever it means. Please refer to the post where I supposedly said "there was no Scripture that said all who are in Christ". What is the context for this supposed statement?


Let's examine the verse:
"No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also."

If this verse applied to anyone who previously believed and received eternal life, then what Jesus said about recipients of eternal life cannot be true, nor what Paul said in Eph 1:13,14. Therefore, this verse cannot be referring to those who have already believed.


Since I believe the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life, I understand that the commands to "continue in the faith" and "abide in Him", etc are referring to maintaining fellowship with Him. Please read the first chapter of 1 John and count the times "fellowship" is mentioned. It's 4. That's important, not incidental.

It seems to me that many people have no understanding of what fellowship with Jesus means or looks like.

First, how do we get out of fellowship with the Lord? By grieving (Eph 4:30) or quenching the Spirit (1 Thess 5:19).

Now, what does being in fellowship with the Lord look like? We are filled with the Spirit (Eph 5:18) and walking by means of the Spirit (Gal 5:16).

So, how does one restore fellowship following sin? Confession of sin, per 1 John 1:9.


No, the Bible does not teach this. This contradicts what Jesus and Paul taught.


Jesus never said anything like this. In fact, what He actually did say in John 10:28,29 is that NO ONE (that means any person) can remove (pluck) the one who has believed from His hands. The "no one" therefore includes the believer himself.

IOW, no person has the ability or power to remove themself from God's hand. If that were possible, the Bible would very plainly warn about it. But there are no warnings about that.


I have provided Scripture that does refute the view that salvation can be lost.

As I've shown in my explanations of each verse provided from your posts, none of those verses says salvation can be lost.

What you have not provided enough s scripture that deals with the resurrection of life.

Here are those who will come forth in the resurrection of life.

• those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.
John 5:28-29


If you don’t agree that those who have done good, will come forth in the resurrection of life, then please provide a scripture that actually says those who have done evil will also come forth in the resurrection of life.


Please stay on topic and use verses that have to do with the resurrection of life.



JLB

 

[chessman]

The line they were never saved is a big reason that theology is blaise.

I prefer “unrepentant” or “unbeliever” or “liar”, as more Theological (though often ellipsised out) terms.

But in-accordance-with your hardness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing-up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath and the revelation of the righteous-judgment of God, ...​

Romans 2:5 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Romans 2:5&version=DLNT
...

you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:

 

[FreeGrace]

WIP said: ↑
Do you believe that a person can believe and accept Jesus as his/her savior and then later reject Jesus, curse Him and everything He stands for and put his/her commitment, faith, and trust in Satan, bowing down and worshiping him as god and still be saved?

Well you see, it doesn't matter what I think. It matters what Jesus taught, and died to deliver to the world according to his Father's will, as an irrevocable gift of grace.

And Jesus was real clear about those He gives eternal life to (saved people); they shall never perish. John 10:28

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"If anyone coud be "unsealed" by removal of the Holy Spirit, it seems this would be just the verse. Isn't grieving the Holy Spirit a bad thing?"

Do you think it grieves the Spirit when a believer claims that the very One who raised Christ from the dead will not also raise those in whom the Spirit dwells?

Yes, I do think the Spirit is grieved when a believer makes this claim and the general statement that salvation can be lost.

I mean, wow. Why in the world do people think the Advocate doesn’t actually Advocate as needed??? Kinda the Spirit’s job description and He’s pretty good at His job, no?

The Best.

Kinda like our High Priest is pretty good at His job too. Some (but evidently not all) might even say completely capable of interceding and saving us (body and spirit).

That is my belief for sure.

Hence also, He is able to save completely the ones coming-to God through Him, always living so as to intercede for them.​

Hebrews 7:25 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Hebrews 7:25&version=DLNT

The view that salvation can be lost would indicate that no one is actually saved completely. Certainly not if salvation can be lost by whatever we can do.

A complete salvation would mean that it can't be lost, since it is Christ who saves and Christ who keeps in His hand.

Must he very grieving to The Spirit and our High Priest when their work is underestimated by a believer.

Sadly, yes.

 

[for_his_glory]

This is a silly question. This person who once professed faith in Christ is obviously not saved and never was to begin with. Faith and repentance are fruit of a believer, by the life giving power of the resurrection of Christ. All of grace

Actually that is inaccurate as one who has professed Christ can be led away by seducing spirits and not even know it. This is why we are to guard our faith against Satan and his trickery.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

 

[FreeGrace]

You said: "Both John 10:28 and Rom 8:38,39 are about eternal security, so no matter HOW one lives after having been given eternal life, they shall never perish. So said Jesus. We must not mix our emotions with doctrine. While it's a very horrible thing for any believer to walk away from the Lord, or even quit believing, none of that can remove salvation or eternal life from one who has been given eternal life. And no verse says so."

Yes, I did.

So, by what you have stated here about no matter how one lives I can go out and be a murder, a theif etc. etc. and still have eternal life, interesting!!!

Interesting?? No, it's just tragic that people would do that. But God has given the believer freedom to worship or rebel.

Consider this verse:
Isa 1:18-20
18 “Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

These verses show that man is free to either be obedient or rebel. And there are consequences for both.

You said: "Absolutely not. Of course I am aware that believers can and do walk away from Him. But WHY would one think that God breaks His promise of recipients never perishing because of any reason??

Yes, I did.

Recipients are those who never lose faith as they are grounded in it and continue to believe no matter what tries to come against them.

Nope. Just read John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27, 1 Tim 1:16 and 1 John 5:13 about how to be a recipient of eternal life (or POSSESS eternal life). It isn't about their own actions. It's all about what Jesus has done and what He gives on the basis of faith in Him.

Many are not grounded and do fall away never to come back.

I cannot ignore what Jesus said about how to possess eternal life (faith in Him) and that those He gives eternal life (those who have believed in Him) shall never perish. John 10:28

Back in post # 35 you said: "1. The Bible never says that Jesus gives eternal life to "all who are in Him and He in them". In fact, it doesn't even say "all who are in Him".

I replied back with 2 Corinthians 5:17 to show where it does say, all who are in Christ.

Yes, this verse says nothing about losing eternal life, or anything about being removed from being in Christ. That was my point.

So, please explain how 2 Cor 5:17 provides any support for the idea of loss of salvation.

You said: "Since I believe the promise Jesus made about recipients of eternal life, I understand that the commands to "continue in the faith" and "abide in Him", etc are referring to maintaining fellowship with Him. Please read the first chapter of 1 John and count the times "fellowship" is mentioned. It's 4. That's important, not incidental.

Read the conditions in your statement - continue in faith, abide in Him and maintaining fellowship.

I appears my paragraph wasn't read, or maybe just skimmed. I explained the phrases "continue in the faith", "abide in Him" etc are refering to maintain fellowship with Him. None of these phrases are connected to ANY WORDS that indicate that salvation can be lost.

Please provide any verse connects losing salvation with these words.

If these conditions are not met then we are none of His.

Please provide any clear verse that says:
1. we are responsible for maintaining our own salvation, or
2. we can lose our salvation by certain actions, or
3. salvation isn't given until one's life is over on this earth, or
4. any other phraseology that clearly and plainly states that salvation is conditioned on behavior.

In the meantime, I am prepared to provide 22 verses that plainly state that salvation and eternal life are obtained on the basis of faith, without any mention of behavior.

Scripture teaches us about these conditions and it also says some will depart from these conditions.

This is true. But there are Calvinists who will deny that a true believer can actually depart the faith. Which is not supported by Scripture.

1 Timothy 4: Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Yes, I absolutely do believe this can and does occur. Yet, where in 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, or anywhere else in the Bible do we read that we can lose salvation by our own actions/behavior?

Thank you for addressing my points. I really appreciate it.

 

[FreeGrace]

What you have not provided enough s scripture that deals with the resurrection of life.

When will my request be addressed? That is, to explain what 'resurrection of life' even means to you. I have no idea.

 

[MCoop]

Actually that is inaccurate as one who has professed Christ can be led away by seducing spirits and not even know it. This is why we are to guard our faith against Satan and his trickery.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19. A profession in Christ doesn’t mean one is actually saved. All the elect produce fruit, whether very little or much. To suggest they can lose eternal life in Christ and what God has given by grace apart from mans works, is to suggest a gospel that cannot save. Gods people may stray at times but Gods Spirit will always bring conviction and chastisement.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, I did.


Interesting?? No, it's just tragic that people would do that. But God has given the believer freedom to worship or rebel.

Consider this verse:
Isa 1:18-20
18 “Come now, let us reason together,” says the LORD. “Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.
19 If you are willing and obedient, you will eat the good things of the land;
20 but if you resist and rebel, you will be devoured by the sword.” For the mouth of the LORD has spoken.

These verses show that man is free to either be obedient or rebel. And there are consequences for both.


Yes, I did.


Nope. Just read John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 6:47, 11:25-27, 1 Tim 1:16 and 1 John 5:13 about how to be a recipient of eternal life (or POSSESS eternal life). It isn't about their own actions. It's all about what Jesus has done and what He gives on the basis of faith in Him.


I cannot ignore what Jesus said about how to possess eternal life (faith in Him) and that those He gives eternal life (those who have believed in Him) shall never perish. John 10:28


Yes, this verse says nothing about losing eternal life, or anything about being removed from being in Christ. That was my point.

So, please explain how 2 Cor 5:17 provides any support for the idea of loss of salvation.


I appears my paragraph wasn't read, or maybe just skimmed. I explained the phrases "continue in the faith", "abide in Him" etc are refering to maintain fellowship with Him. None of these phrases are connected to ANY WORDS that indicate that salvation can be lost.

Please provide any verse connects losing salvation with these words.


Please provide any clear verse that says:
1. we are responsible for maintaining our own salvation, or
2. we can lose our salvation by certain actions, or
3. salvation isn't given until one's life is over on this earth, or
4. any other phraseology that clearly and plainly states that salvation is conditioned on behavior.

In the meantime, I am prepared to provide 22 verses that plainly state that salvation and eternal life are obtained on the basis of faith, without any mention of behavior.


This is true. But there are Calvinists who will deny that a true believer can actually depart the faith. Which is not supported by Scripture.


Yes, I absolutely do believe this can and does occur. Yet, where in 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, or anywhere else in the Bible do we read that we can lose salvation by our own actions/behavior?

Thank you for addressing my points. I really appreciate it.

We are getting nowhere as within all the scriptures I have given John 5:28, 29 shows us it is those who have done good will be resurrected to eternal life and those who have done evil are resurrected to damnation. The only way to lose that promise of eternal life is found in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 and in Matthew 12:31-33.

 

[for_his_glory]

They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 1 John 2:19. A profession in Christ doesn’t mean one is actually saved. All the elect produce fruit, whether very little or much. To suggest they can lose eternal life in Christ and what God has given by grace apart from mans works, is to suggest a gospel that cannot save. Gods people may stray at times but Gods Spirit will always bring conviction and chastisement.

Those who went out from them professed Christ only with their lips, but never with their hearts so they were none of His to begin with and were never Spiritually renewed nor posses eternal life with the Father. What is said in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life, but have been seduced by lying spirits and believe the false doctrines of devils instead of the true doctrine of Christ. That is a big difference then those who were never Christ's to begin with.

 

[MCoop]

Those who went out from them professed Christ only with their lips, but never with their hearts so they were none of His to begin with and were never Spiritually renewed nor posses eternal life with the Father. What is said in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life, but have been seduced by lying spirits and believe the false doctrines of devils instead of the true doctrine of Christ. That is a big difference then those who were never Christ's to begin with.

Being spiritually renewed or made alive in Christ is to possess eternal life. Lip servers, as you put it, in both instances describes the same person. Trying to prove loss of eternal life by mans works, is to teach works based salvation and a denial of the gospel of Christ. If God doesn’t save by mans works, what makes you think mans works maintains salvation? Are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3. And if so then those who hold to such nonsense believe not that eternal life rest in Christ Jesus alone

 

[WinterPuma]

WIP said: ↑
Do you believe that a person can believe and accept Jesus as his/her savior and then later reject Jesus, curse Him and everything He stands for and put his/her commitment, faith, and trust in Satan, bowing down and worshiping him as god and still be saved?

And Jesus was real clear about those He gives eternal life to (saved people); they shall never perish. John 10:28

That is a fact of his ministry. And God would certainly know what he intended when he communicated "never" perish.

 

[chessman]

What is said in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life, but have been seduced by lying spirits and believe the false doctrines of devils instead of the true doctrine of Christ.

How come 1 Tim 4:1-2 does not actually say it is speaking about those who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life?

Rather it says “some”.
Some what???

Some who have been Spiritually renewed and had the promise of eternal life??? Nope!

Do you believe every creature of God (like everyone who has been eternally Spiritually renewed and given eternal life) is good?

 

[WinterPuma]

Being spiritually renewed or made alive in Christ is to possess eternal life. Lip servers, as you put it, in both instances describes the same person. Trying to prove loss of eternal life by mans works, is to teach works based salvation and a denial of the gospel of Christ. If God doesn’t save by mans works, what makes you think mans works maintains salvation? Are you now being made perfect by the flesh? Galatians 3:3. And if so then those who hold to such nonsense believe not that eternal life rest in Christ Jesus alone

The scriptures share with us that there were those who walked with Jesus and were not actually redeemed by his message of Salvation. They left the master and his companions and of them we are told, they went out from Jesus and his Disciples because they were not one with them. They were not redeemed, they were not in the message of Christ and his teachings. All of 1John 2 is edifying. That particular relation of those not in Christ is in verse 19.

Therefore, it is true that not all who call themselves Christian are in Christ. However, it is not true that those who are in Christ are able to suffer the same fate as those who are not Saved.
Salvation as we know because God said so, is a gift of his grace. He sent himself to the world to appear in the flesh and deliver his new covenant to 1st century Palestine. He died in order to seal that covenant with the blood of the son of man, who was also the only begotten son of God.
And then he assured us that he would never leave us even if we left him. Because those who were in Christ , our names written in the Book of Life before the world was formed,and name meaning something more than just what we understand as a name in Jesus time and before, were put there by the all knowing God that predestined Salvation's plan also and before the world was formed. He knew us , we were one with him, before there was a beginning.

Those who oppose the fact that God then told us in his own words, his gifts, and as mentioned prior Salvation is a gift of God and his grace, are irrevocable, would have to prove God lied. Or, was so deceitful that he really didn't mean his gifts are irrevocable when he told Paul to tell us that. Or, they'd have to say, Paul, a Pharisee who knew God's law like the back of his hand, misunderstood God's teaching him, or lied of his own accord.
That's the only option for those who insist Salvation is not , is not, what God who Saves stated it was in his own words, from his own lips as Jesus.
Because that is exactly what happens in those forums, this not the only one I have come across, where there is just a very few self-professing people who argue repeatedly and ignore scripture that proves their argument errant, and outright false.
In my opinion encountering those type people in those forums, I believe they are the contemporary representation of the experience related in 1st John 2:19 They went out from us but they were not of us, for if they had been of us, they would have remained; but they went out from us to disclose that they were not of us.

Can you imagine living in first century Palestine and having the blessed privilege of walking with Jesus himself and hearing him teach? Would you ever leave that magnificent light in a very dark time?
Then how could anyone do that today and then argue it is always an option and God is a respecter of persons that he would make an exception and revoke his gift? 1 John 2:19?

Editing here: I felt compelled to clarify that I am not levying judgment on anyone here as being not of Christ in my remarks. I'm asking a question about that movement that seems to be blossoming in Christian forums, and if others have seen it elsewhere please if you feel drawn share that here, that insists the Christian is not eternally Saved. That their desire can overcome God's will.
Thank you.

 

[FreeGrace]

We are getting nowhere as within all the scriptures I have given John 5:28, 29 shows us it is those who have done good will be resurrected to eternal life and those who have done evil are resurrected to damnation.

Really? How come there are over 22 verses that specifically say that salvation and eternal life is obtained on the basis of faith, apart from anything else?

The only way to lose that promise of eternal life is found in 1 Timothy 4:1, 2 and in Matthew 12:31-33.

How come neither passages mentions loss of eternal life?

There are no verses that specifically state the possibility of losing salvation.
There are no verses that specificallt state the possibility of losing eternal life.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28 So I can never accept the theory that salvation can be lost.

 

[FreeGrace]

That is a fact of his ministry. And God would certainly know what he intended when he communicated "never" perish.

Yes, sir!

 

[WinterPuma]

Really? How come there are over 22 verses that specifically say that salvation and eternal life is obtained on the basis of faith, apart from anything else?


How come neither passages mentions loss of eternal life?

There are no verses that specifically state the possibility of losing salvation.
There are no verses that specificallt state the possibility of losing eternal life.

Jesus said recipients of eternal life shall never perish. Jn 10:28 So I can never accept the theory that salvation can be lost.

Well said.

We are saved by grace not by works so that no one may boast they had anything to do with their own Salvation.

That fact alone could stand to refute any teaching that insists we can lose our Salvation.

 

[FreeGrace]

Well said.

We are saved by grace not by works so that no one may boast they had anything to do with their own Salvation.

That fact alone could stand to refute any teaching that insists we can lose our Salvation.

Amen! I believe that what Jesus said in John 10:28 closes all discussion of the notion that salvation can be lost. He said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. Should be end of story, but somehow, many still see "conditions" within what He said about recipients of eternal life, when there are none.