Is the Ten Commandment Abolished?

[Theofilus]

Thats no different to what I see at all. Were in agreement.

Except you've left out the beast.

Though there may be superficial similarities, you can trust me on this - we are not in agreement on this. I do not see the Jews as a "Satanic controller" as you stated. The whore is, in my opinion, a religion, not a "controller". It's the beast that is the "controller", as you put it. I left out the beast because, as I said, it's outside the topic of this thread. Now...

totopic

 

[Strangelove]

Strangelove, you're the only one here who wants to discuss the "legitimacy of the Talmud". The rest of us are talking about the written Torah.

Actually StoveBolts told me to study the oral torah which is the talmud.

 

[Strangelove]

Though there may be superficial similarities, you can trust me on this - we are not in agreement on this. I do not see the Jews as a "Satanic controller" as you stated.

Show me where I stated the Jews were the Satanic controller.

The whore is, in my opinion, a religion, not a "controller". It's the beast that is the "controller", as you put it. I left out the beast because, as I said, it's outside the topic of this thread.

So the beast is the controller?? Even though the whore is riding the beast?
Does that make sense to you?

 

[Ashua]

Strangelove:

Galatians 5:19

Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,

Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

The statement "against such there is no law" is in contrast to the things which are listed as attributes under those who will NOT inherit the kingdom. This contrast coupled with the statement AGAINST such in context of law suggests there does exist law against the former things which are listed as traits that keep us out of the kingdom.

Now then, sense its obvious laws exist against those things they are bad. There is no law against the good things listed because no law forbids doing good.

It concludes that if we are in Christ, we have CRUCIFIED the LUSTS of the FLESH. The LAW prohibits the lusts of the flesh. The flesh lusts to break God's Holy Commandment. So if we are in Christ we crucify the fleshy intention to break his law.
Please discuss how this portion of Galatians squares with you.

 

[Strangelove]

The statement "against such there is no law" is in contrast to the things which are listed as attributes under those who will NOT inherit the kingdom. This contrast coupled with the statement AGAINST such in context of law suggests there does exist law against the former things which are listed as traits that keep us out of the kingdom.

Now then, sense its obvious laws exist against those things they are bad. There is no law against the good things listed because no law forbids doing good.

It concludes that if we are in Christ, we have CRUCIFIED the LUSTS of the FLESH. The LAW prohibits the lusts of the flesh. The flesh lusts to break God's Holy Commandment. So if we are in Christ we crucify the fleshy intention to break his law.
Please discuss how this portion of Galatians squares with you.

Everything is covered By Jesus' 2 commandments. It's that simple.

Ashua:::

Wheres this big list of laws that us Christians need to keep?

I asked you but you never got back to me.

 

[Ashua]

I didn't think I needed to answer you since you never acknowledge the mounds of scripture I presented to you. I present the words of Apostles and Prophets and you rebuttal with straw men arguments and self-conceived philosophy.

But how about we start with the ten commandments as other people have stated? Also, one of the things on Paul's list is drunkeness. So according to Paul if you live life as a drunk, you will not be saved. Are drunks incapable of also "loving" God and neighbor even in drunkeness?

You speak well in saying that everything is covered by the two greatest commandments; because these were lifted directly and intentionally quoted by Christ from the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus. So basically, you are trying to tell me that Moses' law doesn't count anymore by citing two commandments that are already APART OF MOSES LAW That just doesnt make sense any way you slice it.

Why did Christ say those were the two greatest commandments? Why did he say that if you love God and you love one another you will have fulfilled the law? Because if you love God you do not break his commandments. If you love your neighbor you do not sin against him.

Everything in the Torah is either a demonstration of love and obedience to God or a law of decency and conduct towards your neighbor. Every single Law ever given to man by God is literally summarized in that if you love God, you will keep His commandments. Obedience is the fruit and evidence of faith and love.

Now, Acts makes it abundantly clear that you do NOT need to keep Moses' Law to be saved; but some Christians want to take that a step further and say that you can "live like the devil" and still be saved if you declare a sort of "emotional love" for God and one another. If God is your father you will do the deeds of God. If you are truly in the faith and truly saved your life will reflect that. The Ten Commandments are certainly cornerstones of "love" towards God and one another. A man who feels the Ten Commandments are obsolete greatly errs and has neither the truth, nor genuine love in him.

 

[Strangelove]

But how about we start with the ten commandments as other people have stated? Also, one of the things on Paul's list is drunkeness. So according to Paul if you live life as a drunk, you will not be saved. Are drunks incapable of also "loving" God and neighbor even in drunkeness?

Ten commandments covered by Jesus' 2 commandments. (except sabbath but were not bound to keep that anyway)

Drunkeness covered by the first commandment. I dont do anythink that I know Jesus hates. Plus covered by 2nd comm. too cos if I'm drunk I'm likely to hurt other or cause them to stumble.

Ok. What other laws do you want us to keep?

You speak well in saying that everything is covered by the two greatest commandments; because these were lifted directly and intentionally quoted by Christ from the books of Deuteronomy and Leviticus.

Huh? I thought they just came from Jesus' mouth. Love God, Love others.

So basically, you are trying to tell me that Moses' law doesn't count anymore by citing two commandments that are already APART OF MOSES LAW That just doesnt make sense any way you slice it.

What your saying is LOVE doesnt make sense. Which doesnt make sense. Why are you trying to overcomplicate everything? Do you have children?

Why did Christ say those were the two greatest commandments? Why did he say that if you love God and you love one another you will have fulfilled the law? Because if you love God you do not break his commandments. If you love your neighbor you do not sin against him.

He said it to simplify everything for us. So we dont need to get bogged down in a bunch of OT written law. H'OBVIOUSLY!

Everything in the Torah is either a demonstration of love and obedience to God or a law of decency and conduct towards your neighbor. Every single Law ever given to man by God is literally summarized in that if you love God, you will keep His commandments. Obedience is the fruit and evidence faith and love.

There you go....now your getting it. All you need is love!

Now, Acts makes it abundantly clear that you do NOT need to keep Moses' Law to be saved; (YAY!) but some Christians want to take that a step further and say that you can "live like the devil" and still be saved if you declare a sort of "emotional love" for God and one another. (Those Christians have nothing to do with me. If they are living like that they are not following Jesus' commandments) If God is your father you will do the deeds of God. If you are truly in the faith and truly saved your life will reflect that. The Ten Commandments are certainly cornerstones of "love" towards God and one another. (No...LOVE is the cornerstone. Jesus is the cornerstone for Christians. Not OT written law) A man who feels the Ten Commandments are obsolete greatly errs and has neither the truth, nor genuine love in him.(Did you say straw-man?? YOU CANT ERR FROM THE TEN COMMANDMENTS THAT DEAL WITH SIN IF YOU LOVE GOD AND OTHERS. What part of that dont you understand? Why do you start with OT law instead of starting with Christ? Are you Jewish?)

 

[Theofilus]

Show me where I stated the Jews were the Satanic controller.

You seem to have been implying since you joined this thread, as well as in others.

So the beast is the controller?? Even though the whore is riding the beast?
Does that make sense to you?

If you want to discuss the symbolism in Revelation, I suggest you start a thread devoted to that specifically. Send me a PM when you've started it and I'll join in the discussion there. One thing is for certain - whatever the whore and the beast symbolize, they have nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e. whether or not the Torah is still valid and whether Christians are expected to keep the commandments found in it.

totopic

 

[Ashua]

Huh? I thought they just came from Jesus' mouth. Love God, Love others.

Before Jesus said them to his disciples; YHVH said them to Moses.

What the Torah says about Loving God

Deuteronomy 6:5

And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Deuteronomy 10:12

And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul,

Deuteronomy 11:1

Therefore thou shalt love the LORD thy God, and keep his charge, and his statutes, and his judgments, and his commandments, always

Deuteronomy 13:3

you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul.

Deuteronomy 19:9

because you carefully follow all these laws I command you today--to love the LORD your God and to walk always in his ways--then you are to set aside three more cities.

Deuteronomy 30:6

The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live.

Deuteronomy 30:16

For I command you today to love the LORD your God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commands, decrees and laws; then you will live and increase, and the LORD your God will bless you in the land you are entering to possess.

Deuteronomy 30:20

and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob..

What Jesus and John says about loving God.

Matthew 22:37

Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'

Mark 12:30

Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength.'

Mark 12:33

To love him with all your heart, with all your understanding and with all your strength, and to love your neighbor as yourself is more important than all burnt offerings and sacrifices."

Luke 10:27

He answered: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind'; and, 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'"

John 14:15

If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21

Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."

John 14:23

Jesus replied, "If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

John 15:10

If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.1

John 2:3

We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 5:3

This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

2 John 1:6

And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love.

What the Torah says about loving your neighbor as yourself.

Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.

What Jesus says about loving your neighbor as yourself.

Matthew 19:19

honor your father and mother,' and 'love your neighbor as yourself.'"

Matthew 22:39

And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

As you can see, the two greatest commandments were around in Moses day. They are from the Old Testament Law. Therefore, you cannot use them to disannul the validity of the Holy Commandments. If anything, they summarize the Old Testament law.


And no, I'm not Jewish: But I appreciate the Hebrew roots of my faith.

 

[Strangelove]

You seem to have been implying since you joined this thread, as well as in others.

I demand you either quote me where I have implied that either here or on other threads or you do the Christian thing and apologize for bearing false witness and painting me as an antisemite.

If you want to discuss the symbolism in Revelation, I suggest you start a thread devoted to that specifically. Send me a PM when you've started it and I'll join in the discussion there. One thing is for certain - whatever the whore and the beast symbolize, they have nothing to do with the subject of this thread, i.e. whether or not the Torah is still valid and whether Christians are expected to keep the commandments found in it.

Fine. Go here - http://www.christianforums.net/f20/mystery-babylon-great-mother-harlots-30906/

Its a very informative thread. On the OP you will see my exact take on my feelings towards Jews.

 

[Strangelove]

As you can see, the two greatest commandments were around in Moses day. They are from the Old Testament Law. Therefore, you cannot use them to disannul the validity of the Holy Commandments. If anything, they summarize the Old Testament law.

And no, I'm not Jewish: But I appreciate the Hebrew roots of my faith. .

Fine. No problem. But the fact remains we only need to look to Christ for our commandments.

And the root of our faith is Christ and Christ alone.

And thats coming from a Christian Jew. Dig it?

 

[Theofilus]

I demand you either quote me where I have implied that either here or on other threads or you do the Christian thing and apologize for bearing false witness and painting me as an antisemite.

Since you demand it, I will. But, so as not to derail this thread further, I'm sending you a PM. After I send it, you will be added to my ignore list.

Discussion over!

 

[Ashua]

Fine. No problem. But the fact remains we only need to look to Christ for our commandments.

And the root of our faith is Christ and Christ alone.

And thats coming from a Christian Jew. Dig it?

Yes, I "dig it", but what does it mean to "Love the LORD thy God with all of your heart soul and might."?

You arent to simply love him; but love him beyond comprehension. Keeping his commandments is an act of love. Love manifests in action.

You cant just love your neighbor. You are commanded to love him so greatly, that your love for him must equal the love you have for your self. Its not as easy as it sounds. You are not just commanded to love, but love at such a standard that I dare say I stagger to comprehend the level of it.

Those who love a little will do many things for those they love; and how much greater action should conceive out of the heart which loves the the degree that the greatest two commandments require out of it? Sure such a love would bring works and obedience as a side affect of it's being ---not that commandment keeping + love is the idea but rather that love's biproduct is commandment keeping after the newness in spirit.

 

[Strangelove]

Yes, I "dig it", but what does it mean to "Love the LORD thy God with all of your heart soul and might."?

You arent to simply love him; but love him beyond comprehension. Keeping his commandments is an act of love. Love manifests in action.

You cant just love your neighbor. You are commanded to love him so greatly, that your love for him must equal the love you have for your self. Its not as easy as it sounds. You are not just commanded to love, but love at such a standard that I dare say I stagger to comprehend the level of it.

Those who love a little will do many things for those they love; and how much greater action should conceive out of the heart which loves the the degree that the greatest two commandments require out of it? Sure such a love would bring works and obedience as a side affect of it's being ---not that commandment keeping + love is the idea but rather that love's biproduct is commandment keeping after the newness in spirit.

Ok no problem I get it.

I REALLY love God and others. REALLY!

And the by product of love is being good.

So were in agreement then yeah Brother Ashua?

Good, so we can get on with our lives now?

 

[walter]

Ok no problem I get it.

I REALLY love God and others. REALLY!

And the by product of love is being good.

So were in agreement then yeah Brother Ashua?

Good, so we can get on with our lives now?

Love your neighbor as yourself means mostly to not do things to him or her that you wouldn't want done to you, and conversely, do things for him or her that you would want done for you. It's that simple. It doesn't mean you have to lavish attention or treasures on them, just treat them with the same standard you use for yourself.

 

[Ashua]

Love your neighbor as yourself means mostly to not do things to him or her that you wouldn't want done to you, and conversely, do things for him or her that you would want done for you. It's that simple. It doesn't mean you have to lavish attention or treasures on them, just treat them with the same standard you use for yourself.

Yes, and the point is the Ten Commandments are valid today by virtue of loving your brother as your self. The Ten Commandments are necessary for true Christians because if you break them, you are not walking in love. Every commandment falls under the shadow of the two great commandments.

So in this sense, it is necessary to keep the commandments. How can you say "I love you, neighbor" and then lay down with his wife?

 

[walter]

Yes, and the point is the Ten Commandments are valid today by virtue of loving your brother as your self. The Ten Commandments are necessary for true Christians because if you break them, you are not walking in love. Every commandment falls under the shadow of the two great commandments.

BINGO!!

 

[Strangelove]

Yes, and the point is the Ten Commandments are valid today by virtue of loving your brother as your self. The Ten Commandments are necessary for true Christians because if you break them, you are not walking in love. Every commandment falls under the shadow of the two great commandments.

So in this sense, it is necessary to keep the commandments. How can you say "I love you, neighbor" and then lay down with his wife?

((**groan**))

There you go again. Why do you keep twisting things away from Jesus and love back to the ten commandments? So is keeping the sabbath necessary? Thats one of the ten commandments.

 

[Ashua]

((**groan**))

There you go again. Why do you keep twisting things away from Jesus and love back to the ten commandments? So is keeping the sabbath necessary? Thats one of the ten commandments.

Yes it is. HOW you keep it is up to your own conscience. One man esteems one day above the rest. Every day is the LORD's day.

So its okay to lie against your neighbor or to lay down with his wife as long as you "feel" love in your "heart"?

 

[Strangelove]

Yes it is. HOW you keep it is up to your own conscience. One man esteems one day above the rest. Every day is the LORD's day.

So its okay to lie against your neighbor or to lay down with his wife as long as you "feel" love in your "heart"?

Ok now I know that you are just determined to Judaize Christians on this forum because you keep going back to this non-sensical argument that following Jesus' 2 commandments JUST ISN"T GOOD ENOUGH!!

CHRISTIANS WHO TRULY LOVE GOD AND LOVE OTHERS WILL REPENT FROM SIN.

FULL STOP. PERIOD. CASE CLOSED.

Now Ashua.....repent against this talk of keeping the old law and maybe God will be merciful.

You are EXACTLY the kind of person Paul was warning the Galatians about.

It just amazes me.....and it amazed Paul how you can forget so easily where you get your Grace from. By talking of the old law you preach another Gospel. Why do ye tempt God by doing such things?? Why do you risk being accursed?

1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and
would pervert the gospel of Christ.
1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

By the revelation of Jesus Christ....Amen.​