IS THERE A RAPTURE? Who will go? WHO'S THE BRIDE?

[Eugene]

IS THERE A RAPTURE?
Who will go?

The entire church will be caught up according to 1 Cor 15:23, but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Since John sees different ranks of believers at different times, is Jesus limited to coming once in the air to meet them? Combine that with one portion of the church in Rev 3:10 having the option of being kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth, and in Rev 7:14 another cohort of the redeemed seen before the throne which came out of great tribulation.

WHO'S THE BRIDE?

The following scripture describes the method of rapture and must be applied to all that arrive in heaven; the dead first, and them which are alive. As a bride and queen only two parts of the total church have crowns, and they are Smyrna in Rev 2:10 representing the dead who will rise first, and the Philadelphia believers in Rev 3:10 that are alive at Jesus’ coming for them.

1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Later arrivals to heaven during the first three and one half years of tribulation will consist of the great multitude of Rev 7:14, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand of Revelation 14:1 who even sing a different song in Rev 14:3 than the bride’s song of redemption in Rev 5:9-10.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[Brother Mike]

IS THERE A RAPTURE?
Who will go?

The entire church will be caught up according to 1 Cor 15:23, but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Since John sees different ranks of believers at different times, is Jesus limited to coming once in the air to meet them? Combine that with one portion of the church in Rev 3:10 having the option of being kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth, and in Rev 7:14 another cohort of the redeemed seen before the throne which came out of great tribulation.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

It's not that hard to read is it Eugene.

IN CHRIST IN THIS ORDER.................. The first off the vine, He produced then those that came through that are just his during tribulation. The first ressurection are those that were in Him (The Church) or those that belong to him. Blessed are those that have part of this first resurrection for they shall reign with him.

Jesus can't be in himself and Jesus was already resurrected.

3:10 having the option of being kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth, and in

Who will go. Well that is one scripture.....................

2nd scripture:

1Th_5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

3rd Scripture:

Mat 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(Tribulation and at the end of tribulation Jesus comes to Earth in clouds and glory........... HOWEVER)

Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

There shall be a tribulation this earth has never seen...... AT THAT time everyone in the book is delivered, and there is a resurrection event.

Luk_21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

escape all what? Everything Jesus mentioned above in Luke 21, and we Escape because we are with HIM. That is all the seals, trumpets and Vials because all means All.

I can keep going but your avrage person with so much scriptural evidence would get it anyway, so no point.

Pre-Trib Rapture is for the anointed Church to escape all the Wrath of God through the trumpets, Vials and Seals. We are taken suddenly in the air to stand before Jesus and the rest of the World God will deal with.

Mike.

 

[JLB]

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
(1Co 15:22-23)

It's not that hard to read is it Eugene.

UNDER THE CONTEXT OF WHO WILL GO.

I would ask Chopper and all who are participating in this thread to comment on this scripture that tells us WHO WILL GO.

Which is a major component of this thread.

The KJV -

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept . Christ and Christ alone is the First Fruits. [Context: Resurrection from the dead.]
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive. All shall be made alive, ie: resurrected from the dead! ALL.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

VS. 23 -

• Christ the firstfruits; Christ Himself is the First Fruits of mankind to be Resurrected from the dead and to receive an immortal body.
• they that are Christ's, represents all that are Christ's.
• When will all be resurrected; at His Coming.

Furthermore, it is important to understand that the Rapture part of the Gathering takes place after the Resurrection part of the Gathering.

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep . 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

JLB

 

[Chopper]

Chopper, I have to applaud you first and foremost for exploring this topic with an open mind. I have found that the Lord does not teach us as readily as we think until we are first able to able to concede that we really know nothing as we should and are able to let go of the doctrines that have bound us since we first believed. For myself, there is nothing of the Rapture theory that I ascribe to, whether it be pre, mid or post tribulation. The idea of looking forward to escaping the tribulation through a secret rapture does nothing but demonstrate a lack of faith and trust in the Lord. Sure, the tribulation may be a frightful experience, but believing that anyone will escape it is just a convenient way of comforting themselves in face of that fear.

Now the scripture tells us that all these things happened unto them for examples, and they are written for our admonition. So I ask, where in the scripture do we have an example that would conform to a rapture ideology? There are none that I can think of. But there are plenty of examples that do quite the contrary. First, as in the days of Noah: now on this there is much to speak of, but I will reserve that for a different thread so it does not derail this one. But as in the days of Noah, the flood came and took all the rest away, yet because of Noah’s Faith, he remained and persevered. Joseph, when he was sold into slavery by his brothers did not escape the tribulations he endured. Instead he remained faithful and endured, and the Lord raised him up a ruler over the land. The children of Israel did not escape first from the land of Egypt before the judgement came. They endured the same plagues as did the Egyptians, and when it came time for the spirit of Death to consume all firstborn, the children of Israel endured by faith and obedience under the protection of the blood of the Lamb upon the doorpost. Should we expect anything different?

The only example that would give pause to consider further, would be when Judgement came upon the tribe of Judah and Jerusalem through the Babylonians: Here the faithful were told not only to leave Jerusalem, but also to submit themselves to their enemies, to go into the land of Babylon, and there they would be protected. Yet they still had to persevere through tribulation, as the three children and the fiery furnace; they did not escape the furnace, instead the Lord built up a hedge about them and protected them through the fire and in the midst of the fire.

And last but not least, we have the parable of the wheat and the tares, and there too we are shown that the tares are gather first to be burnt, and then the wheat is gathered into the barn. As you can see, there are many examples within the scriptures with which we can draw on that seem to counter any inference to a rapture theory.

Now if I could, I would like to leave you with one though to ponder on, and that would be: In what way would a rapture, secret or otherwise, glorify the Lord?

Very well put my friend, To be truthful, I have considered the same line of thought! It scares me, though and my friend Mike has taught me that fear is an open door for Satan to step in and cause a lot of trouble like Job, even death of what I love. If we are indeed in the last days until Jesus' return, I can't think of any real persecution that I've had to face, not like Saints of old.....I'm going to, as the result of your post, set this possibility as the next discussion topic. Thank you because I feel that the Holy Spirit is in this!

 

[Chopper]

OK folks, We have settled, I. WHO GOES WHEN THE LORD COMES. (only the faithful that "love His appearing" 2 Timothy 4:8)
II. THE OFFICIAL TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE. (KJV)

Now our next topic of discussion will be; Is there a "gathering" to Christ prior to the "tribulation" Honestly, read post #124 by ezrider, I have seriously thought that a so called rapture is nothing more that escapism on my part. Any time we are sick or have trouble we usually ask for healing of God's help out of trouble. The fact of going through the "tribulation" is definitely NOT what I want to do. My faith has not had to approach the shedding of my blood. This is just my thinking and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. So, here we go with Main subject, III. IS THERE A GATHERING TO CHRIST PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION.

 

[JLB]

OK folks, We have settled, I. WHO GOES WHEN THE LORD COMES. (only the faithful that "love His appearing" 2 Timothy 4:8)
II. THE OFFICIAL TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE. (KJV)

Now our next topic of discussion will be; Is there a "gathering" to Christ prior to the "tribulation" Honestly, read post #124 by ezrider, I have seriously thought that a so called rapture is nothing more that escapism on my part. Any time we are sick or have trouble we usually ask for healing of God's help out of trouble. The fact of going through the "tribulation" is definitely NOT what I want to do. My faith has not had to approach the shedding of my blood. This is just my thinking and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. So, here we go with Main subject, III. IS THERE A GATHERING TO CHRIST PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION.

That question is easily answered by the following scripture.

The KJV -

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept . Christ and Christ alone is the First Fruits. [Context: Resurrection from the dead.]
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive. All shall be made alive, ie: resurrected from the dead! ALL.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Is the Lord's COMING prior to the Tribulation?

We know that the gathering will be at His COMING.

Will Jesus Christ APPEAR TO ALL the tribes of the earth prior to the Tribulation?

To put it another way -

Will every one see the True Messiah as He appears to everyone on the earth, and to gather His people at the resurrection, before the tribulation or after the tribulation?

The answer is clear.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

OK folks, We have settled, I. WHO GOES WHEN THE LORD COMES. (only the faithful that "love His appearing" 2 Timothy 4:8)
II. THE OFFICIAL TRANSLATION OF THE BIBLE. (KJV)

Now our next topic of discussion will be; Is there a "gathering" to Christ prior to the "tribulation" Honestly, read post #124 by ezrider, I have seriously thought that a so called rapture is nothing more that escapism on my part. Any time we are sick or have trouble we usually ask for healing of God's help out of trouble. The fact of going through the "tribulation" is definitely NOT what I want to do. My faith has not had to approach the shedding of my blood. This is just my thinking and I know a lot of people who feel the same way. So, here we go with Main subject, III. IS THERE A GATHERING TO CHRIST PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION.

Also, I want to thank all of you again for refraining from, judging others, belittling others, and simply not responding in a fleshly manner. I, and the Staff, are proud of you, and you are setting a present model of posting for the whole FCF.net. I have documented all your posts and perhaps at some date I will publish them so no-one is left out. All your post's have influenced my thinking to arrive at logical theology.

 

[Chopper]

That question is easily answered by the following scripture.

The KJV -

20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept . Christ and Christ alone is the First Fruits. [Context: Resurrection from the dead.]
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die , even so in Christ shall all be made alive. All shall be made alive, ie: resurrected from the dead! ALL.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 1 Corinthians 15:20-23

Is the Lord's COMING prior to the Tribulation?

We know that the gathering will be at His COMING.

Will Jesus Christ APPEAR TO ALL the tribes of the earth prior to the Tribulation?

To put it another way -

Will every one see the True Messiah as He appears to everyone on the earth, and to gather His people at the resurrection, before the tribulation or after the tribulation?

The answer is clear.


JLB

Thank you JLB for making our topic question clearer. You have put meat on the skeleton of the question.

 

[Eugene]

Chopper said: So, here we go with Main subject, III. IS THERE A GATHERING TO CHRIST PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION.

If there isn't, the twenty-four elders of Rev 4:4 and four beasts of Rev 4:6 which sing in Rev 5:9 that they are redeemed by Jesus' blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation robbed heaven and took it by force.

These Smyrna and Philadelphia believers are present in heaven prior to the tribulation with and when Jesus' throne is set down in Rev 4:2. Our question might be: when is the Lord's day John was present at when he was invited into heaven in Rev 4:1 to see things hereafter?

 

[Chopper]

IS THERE A RAPTURE?
Who will go?

The entire church will be caught up according to 1 Cor 15:23, but every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Since John sees different ranks of believers at different times, is Jesus limited to coming once in the air to meet them? Combine that with one portion of the church in Rev 3:10 having the option of being kept from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth, and in Rev 7:14 another cohort of the redeemed seen before the throne which came out of great tribulation.

WHO'S THE BRIDE?

The following scripture describes the method of rapture and must be applied to all that arrive in heaven; the dead first, and them which are alive. As a bride and queen only two parts of the total church have crowns, and they are Smyrna in Rev 2:10 representing the dead who will rise first, and the Philadelphia believers in Rev 3:10 that are alive at Jesus’ coming for them.

1 Thes 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

1 Thes 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Later arrivals to heaven during the first three and one half years of tribulation will consist of the great multitude of Rev 7:14, and the one hundred and forty-four thousand of Revelation 14:1 who even sing a different song in Rev 14:3 than the bride’s song of redemption in Rev 5:9-10.

Blessings in Christ Jesus.

 

[JLB]

.So you go right ahead, because once my father starts dealing with the rest of the wicked on the planet, I will be mercifully moved out of his way, because I don't fear any devil, but the one that made
Mike

Yes, Brother.

Just the way Noah was preserved.

Just as in the days of Noah, so shall it be in the days of the Coming of the Son of Man.

The Coming of the Lord, is when we are gathered.

The question is when will He gather His people at the resurrection of the dead.

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven. Mark 13:27

... uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

Meaning the saints in heaven and on earth shall be Gathered together to Him to receive their immortal bodies just like Him.

All the Church, All at once!

In the twinkling of an eye.


JLB

 

[Chopper]

ezrider, I would be very careful on who you consider we are to have lack of fear of. You also need to be careful of who you consider not having faith. I clearly shown a pre-trib rapture and posted many connection scriptures already.

You even know what faith is? Your comment tells me you put yourself up to be tested. You know what it means not to waiver? You know what it means to never say anything contrary to the Word of God. You really in that place of faith to make this comment?

By the grace given to me I drank the coffee they put bleach and cleaner in. I could hardly breath after. However I had almost two years of mediation in the word praise God to know that while I could not breath, I would not fear. I said the best I could, "Lord I thank you that YOU said if I drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt me, Lord forgive them."

Though I could not breath, I could not even inhale because of the bleach as soon as I said that the best I could the sever pain stopped and I could breath better more and more.

All seven responsible the Lord moved in one day out of my work place. Every single one of them, and because of what one wittnessed and heard what I said, He gave his life to Jesus I found out month later when I saw him again.

You even know what it means to not have fear? Not to be moved? You really want to make that comment?

Just 8 days I had stood and believed for my son, not moving, not worrying and on that 8th day I got the call he would not live through the night. I did not panic, did not cry out to God, did not say but this......."Lord thank you, your word is true, and with Long life you will satisfy my son. I am not moved by this report."

The 9th day I get the call, and they can't find one cancer cell in my son. I did not accept the evil report though it looked like God was not hearing my confession of faith. One thing I know, He always hears, and is faithful to keep his word.

You think the devil is scary?

Let me show you why we are not here during tribulation. It's not because we are scared of some disobedient angel that did not have enough sense to stay with God. Why should I fear a servant that does not even honor the Lord? That don't even make sense.

We are not here because the One dealing with the planet is the One we should fear. The one that made everything, the one that made you.

You think Lot would have been spared had he stayed in Sodom? His wife was not even spared looking back to a life she was not ready to let go of. You think Noah would have been spared had he not obeyed and built the Ark? Was Uzzah being innocent to steady the ark spared? NO, but under Davids command who sinned He died.

Rev 8:7 The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.

Where you planing to hide?

Rev 9:3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
Rev 9:4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
Only the 144,000 Jewish men who have the seal of God on their forehead will be spared............ Where you going to hide? Your great faith going to save you?

Rev_16:3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea

There is no place to go....... Where you hiding out?

I would be careful of who you say and boast you have no fear of.... People left on the planet won't be concerned about what Satan is doing, as He makes his last pathetic attempt before he gets thrown in jail.

Rev 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:
Rev 9:21 Neither repented they of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their theft

Rev_16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Rev_16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

Not one scripture about people not repenting for what little things Satan is doing during this time. It's God dealing with a planet that rejected the Gospel of the Lord Jesus who said once it reaches the whole world, the end comes.

There are lots of scriptures about what God is doing and men cursing God for his wrath.

So you go right ahead, because once my father starts dealing with the rest of the wicked on the planet, I will be mercifully moved out of his way, because I don't fear any devil, but the one that made me.



Mike.

 

[Free]

Hey this turning out to be a good thread. Bless you all for that. I think the KJV is A fine translation to stick to on this for the reasons already stated, widely accepted, easy to use the Concordance with.

Free


Well, personally I blieve that the more you study on this, the more obvious that it get that it is two events that happen (discounting Elijah & Enoch and so forth). For instance, take a look at:

Matthew 24: 29-31
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other./(KJV)

and:

1 Thessalonians 4: 16-17
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord./(KJV)

If there is no 2nd event (rapture) then, who gathers the believers? Jesus or the Angels? Do we go to the air to be with Him, or wait to be gathered by Angels? Or are you separating the elect from the rest of the believers? If this is what you do, can you post the scripture which identifies them as a separate group of believers?

And this is where cultural context comes into play hence the necessity of hermeneutics. As to the passage in 1 Thess, one must realize that in ancient times, when a king would arrive at a city, the city would send out a delegation to meet the king and then accompany him back to the city.

So if Christians are welcoming Jesus as the returning king, which is what we will be doing, then we are only meeting him to welcome him and then accompany him on the rest of his journey down.

The idea of a rapture can easily be read into this text as though the text supports it, but that may not at all be what the text is saying.

 

[Brother Mike]

And this is where cultural context comes into play hence the necessity of hermeneutics. As to the passage in 1 Thess, one must realize that in ancient times, when a king would arrive at a city, the city would send out a delegation to meet the king and then accompany him back to the city.

So if Christians are welcoming Jesus as the returning king, which is what we will be doing, then we are only meeting him to welcome him and then accompany him on the rest of his journey down.

The idea of a rapture can easily be read into this text as though the text supports it, but that may not at all be what the text is saying.

1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Free, this is exactly why we don't use Hermeneutics............ God never said take cultural consideration when examining scriptures. He said compare spiritual with spirital as the Holy Spirit our teacher. Line upon Line...... Like things with like things.

Never once did God mention taking culture, time, customs into consideration.

Do you see in that verse Jesus continuing down?

Does Hermeneutics make you add that to the scripture Free?

Do you even care about the warning not to add to the scripture?

If the Word does not say it, we don't imply it!!! or add it!!!

You know the biggest problem people have with hearing God is that they do hear, but add in things on their own God did not say.

It's messed me up more than once, but I have learned. If you had on your mind to buy something expensive but was not sure, then the Lord speaks and tells you to go to the store that sells that thing, you don't add "Go ahead and buy it" Your direction was just to go to that store, nothing else.

Mike.

 

[Narwhalist]

And this is where cultural context comes into play hence the necessity of hermeneutics. As to the passage in 1 Thess, one must realize that in ancient times, when a king would arrive at a city, the city would send out a delegation to meet the king and then accompany him back to the city.

So if Christians are welcoming Jesus as the returning king, which is what we will be doing, then we are only meeting him to welcome him and then accompany him on the rest of his journey down.

The idea of a rapture can easily be read into this text as though the text supports it, but that may not at all be what the text is saying.

Hello Again. Consider this. I have come to the conclusion that the rapture is something people are reading into the Bible text.
Someone mentioned as being rapture theology 1 Corinthians 15:20-24 is talking about Jesus being the first one and because of His resurrection we can see ours when our time comes and of His coming again. In other words, it speaks of our eternal salvation. "For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own turn: Christ , the firstfruits, then, when He comes, those who belong to Him. Then the end will come, when He hands over the kingdom to God the Father after He has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. Ladies and gentlemen, this is not rapture theology, this is end times theology. These scriptures are talking about the second coming of Jesus, not the rapture. Further down 1 Corinthians 15 scriptures mention the resurrection body and that is happening after the 2nd and final and only other coming.
In a previous post I've spoken of Matthew 24 25-50 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16.

 

[reba]

Also, I want to thank all of you again for refraining from, judging others, belittling others, and simply not responding in a fleshly manner. I, and the Staff, are proud of you, and you are setting a present model of posting for the whole FCF.net. I have documented all your posts and perhaps at some date I will publish them so no-one is left out. All your post's have influenced my thinking to arrive at logical theology.

Chopper has been very respectful of all of us allowed for everyone's views . Lets treat him in kind ... and stick to topic....

You are welcome to start a thread on hermeneutics

 

[Eugene]

So if Christians are welcoming Jesus as the returning king, which is what we will be doing, then we are only meeting him to welcome him and then accompany him on the rest of his journey down.

Hi Brother Free. During Jesus' reign, what makes you think it will be from earth instead of heaven? In Rev 4:2 His throne is set there, His saints are being gathered there to rule with Him over the earth, and they will conjointly hand out judgment.

Would glorified ruling saints be mingling with unsaved mankind during Christ's thousand reign? I ask this considering the following scripture.

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, and Rev 14:1 And I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads.

Thanks in Jesus' name.

 

[Chopper]

Opps, something happened and I had to reply a second time....Mike, please don't take offense at opposing views, that is not what this thread is all about. I see, in your post, some anger over ezrider's post. Listen, we have to approach each of our Brother's views and rationally, without our preconceptions and search the Scriptures to see where that Brother is coming from. SO EVERYONE, THIS IS AN EDUCATIONAL OPPORTUNITY FOR ALL OF US! What you believe is OUT THE WINDOW! I don't care what you used to believe!! WHAT DOES SCRIPTURE SAY, NOT YOU!

We are starting afresh. Lets make us believe that we don't have any view on future events at this time. Lets look at the Scriptures together and find Scripture to form a NEW understanding of what happens to the generation that comes to the end of this present dispensation of the "church age". Is there a gathering of faithful believers who have been living according to Christ's commands and are looking for His coming. Lets let Scripture teach us....Listen, When I went to Bible College in the 70s I had heard of a rapture but didn't know much about it. At the Baptist College I attended, they taught me the pre-trib rapture theology. I have been, teaching, preaching, and supporting the pre-trib posture ever since until now. This thread is a new Bible College, and all of you are professors teaching. Now I don't want to hear what you've been taught. I want you to research the Scriptures on pre-trib, mid-trib, post trib, rapture (or what we now call it a "gathering unto Christ") or no gathering at all. I want to to carefully, without any antagonism, see what each person has to say about their position. After careful consideration, we will arrive at a position that we all will accept. Because I'm the author of this thread, I am leaving my pre-trib position and I will examine your Scriptures, and If I see that your position has more valid Scripture than mind I WILL CHANGE. The same goes to all you professors. SCRIPTURE, SCRIPTURE, AND SCRIPTURE!

 

[Chopper]

Chopper has been very respectful of all of us allowed for everyone's views . Lets treat him in kind ... and stick to topic....

You are welcome to start a thread on hermeneutics

Thank you Reba, and please thank the rest of the Staff for me.

 

[Chopper]

We getting away from what the OP has asked?

Thanks Reba