Is TULIP biblical?

[eddif]

The good news is despite our evil nature ,God made a way to save us .

I agree with our partial evil nature (all have sinned). I do not agree with total depravity. Total depravity brought the flood. Noah and family were saved. Noah got drunk and naked. One son looked on his nakedness, but the other two sons covered their father’s nakedness.

So total dominion of sin was broken, but sin still existed.

We are not to sin but we do. Our sin is not total. The resurrection has not yet come. The last trump has not sounded for our final changes.


I think some believe in total depravity and some don’t. Some are not even sure what sinus and how to be forgiven.

I vote move on to the other ULIP. LOL

eddif

 

[jasonc]

I agree with our partial evil nature (all have sinned). I do not agree with total depravity. Total depravity brought the flood. Noah and family were saved. Noah got drunk and naked. One son looked on his nakedness, but the other two sons covered their father’s nakedness.

So total dominion of sin was broken, but sin still existed.

We are not to sin but we do. Our sin is not total. The resurrection has not yet come. The last trump has not sounded for our final changes.


I think some believe in total depravity and some don’t. Some are not even sure what sinus and how to be forgiven.

I vote move on to the other ULIP. LOL

eddif

We are all.

How is it that a heavily influenced by ,well the reformation itself was started by a German speaking man ,and years later the Holocaust happened ?

Cops arrested and help that go down and many others only the ss and heirarchy paid .

Notice that Peter spoke to the crowd saying repemt and the blood of Jesus won't be accounted for you as murder .were all of them pharisses and cried for his blood ? Not all were but well my case is made

 

[JLB]

I did not say Adam had no choice, because Adam pre=fall was created with original righteousness, he was untested and sinless up until the fall into sin and death.

So you agree that Adam chose to disobey God?

 

[JLB]

They were commanded to obey God under penalty of spiritual and physical death. It was not an option.

They chose to disobey God.

Obviously that was an option.

They chose the wrong option.

 

[JLB]

All men have self will. The will is bound by sin. We make choices with a will that is bound by a sinful nature passed down from Adam.

Adam made the choice by his own will to sin, before he fell.

 

[Iconoclast]

Adam made the choice by his own will to sin, before he fell.

As He fell. That action was the fall, not a truimph of the will.

 

[JLB]

As He fell. That action was the fall, not a truimph of the will.

The point is that righteous, sinless Adam chose to disobey God, (sin) according to his own will.




JLB

 

[journeymanisnothing]

Tulip and Truths it represents are nothing short of the Gospel of Gods Grace, or sometimes called the Doctrines of Grace.

god's grace is that Jesus who is God didn't destroy people who spit on him. he chose to turn his anger away from people who slapped him around,, because they thought he was cursed.

How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Psa.78:40-41

pt2

Oh, okay...yes I know what you mean with that. people do not reverence the True God.

Of course, In love the Father gave Him to redeem His Covenant people. It was not random, but planned and purposed/




yes, lk 24!

He came to accomplish redemption. he comes next time as JUDGE


Here is basically what Calvinism teaches, read through it, and start a thread on any portion you think you would like to correct. Give exact quotes, then offer your correction. Your comments here show you have not really heard what Calvinism is. https://www.chapellibrary.org/pdf/books/lbcw.pdf


Do you think we can fully understand God, except what he reveals? rom11;
33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.



Torture His Son? or...pour out His Holy Wrath against sin? which does the bible say?


My friend... the whole bible teaches this. Sin causes death. Sin must be answered for, punished , cleansed,...to miss this is to miss the whole OT. sacrificial system...read Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10. This is a whole different thread.

The bible teaches ALL of these very things. Which ones would you like to see? If I show you, will you admit the teaching is there?


We have major difference here. If you notice, I keep asking you to clarify so as to NOT put words in your mouth,
I am trying to help you. you get some things correct, but you miss other things by a mile. I am going to ask you to do the following.
1] read slowly the 1689 Confession of faith
2] respond to it, as time permits [copy and paste, then your response] You can do it in small sections.
3] explain what Hebrews 9 and 10 are describing for us.


I am glad your parents began to teach you, but we learn all through life.

Journeyman...slow down and take a small break if you need too. WE do not have to solve all mysteries in one hour.
It is hard to re=examine what we have been taught or come to believe, but we all need to do that. I still examine and improve what I believe every day. Do not think of this as someone wins and someone loses. We are here to edify each other as much as we can.

That's ok Iconoclast.
You seem content to believe God poured His wrath out on His Son
I'm content knowing men poured their wrath out on His Son.

 

[journeymanisnothing]

But you dont understand that Tulip is the Gospel

That's ok brightflame.
You're content believing God poured his wrath out on His Son.
i'm content knowing men poured their wrath out on Gods' Son.

 

[eddif]

I did not say Adam had no choice, because Adam pre=fall was created with original righteousness, he was untested and sinless up until the fall into sin and death. We are born dead in Adam now, FROM CONCEPTION.

They were commanded to obey God under penalty of spiritual and physical death. It was not an option.

They chose sin and death.

All men have self will. The will is bound by sin. We make choices with a will that is bound by a sinful nature passed down from Adam.

Jesus was not created, Jesus was not able to sin as His Holy nature cannot sin. He was tempted as we are, but yet without sin.

He always did the Father's will

No, it all begins with God's decree ,before the world was;9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

The first Adam and the second Adam.
1 Corinthians 15:45 kjv
45. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The first Adam was not made with the spiritual gifts. Adam could not handle Satan. Mind will and emotions but no Holy Spirit.

Jesus, the second Adam became a Quickening Spirit. Thus spirit stands at the door of our being and knocks and speaks. We should open the door. Jesus then can baptise us with the Holy Spirit and fire. This is better situation than the first Adam. A born again person has help to resist evil. We must be born again.

I wonder how many times I have said this/thus?

So Adam failed. Will we all accept the opportunity to have eternal life? Life purchased without money?

Total Depravity is not on us. Open the door.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Iconoclast]

god's grace is that Jesus who is God didn't destroy people who spit on him. he chose to turn his anger away from people who slapped him around,, because they thought he was cursed.

How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Psa.78:40-41

That's ok Iconoclast.
You seem content to believe God poured His wrath out on His Son
I'm content knowing men poured their wrath out on His Son.

The bible teaches Penal Substitutionary atonement. You seem content to miss the cross. God punishes sin, not the ungodly
.

 

[eddif]

The bible teaches Penal Substitutionary atonement. You seem content to miss the cross. God punishes sin, not the ungodly
.

God chasten them he loves.

eddif

 

[Iconoclast]

God chasten them he loves.

eddif

The cross was not chastening as Jesus had no sin of His own.

 

[eddif]

The cross was not chastening as Jesus had no sin of His own.

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

eddif

 

[Iconoclast]

1 Peter 2:24 kjv
24. Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

eddif

4 Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God, and afflicted.

5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

 

[brightfame52]

How is total depravity good news?

The Good news was that the ark saved 8 people at the flood. The bad news was that all but 8 people died because of only continual evil in their hearts.

We all have probably changed understanding over time.

Ask me questions, if you will. Try and convince me.

eddif

Total depravity sets the ground work for why it takes Gods Sovereign Grace to save a sinner, hence God gets all the Glory.

 

[brightfame52]

god's grace is that Jesus who is God didn't destroy people who spit on him. he chose to turn his anger away from people who slapped him around,, because they thought he was cursed.

How oft did they provoke him in the wilderness, and grieve him in the desert!
Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel. Psa.78:40-41

That's ok Iconoclast.
You seem content to believe God poured His wrath out on His Son
I'm content knowing men poured their wrath out on His Son.

Again, you dont seem to understand that TULP is the Gospel of Gods Grace.

 

[eddif]

Total depravity sets the ground work for why it takes Gods Sovereign Grace to save a sinner, hence God gets all the Glory.

Strange
God created everything. Even the dry ground. Up front God gets the glory.

Evil arises to steal kill and destroy. Try’s to get glory and be above God. No points given for that.

God overcomes evil with good. God gets praise and glory for that work.

Satan tries to destroy but ultimately fails.

Why rewrite things so that the driving force is evil.( total depravity)?

In the end evil is punished for eternity. God gets the praise for that too.

Evil comes as a messenger of light, but it is actually darkness and not light.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[eddif]

Again, you dont seem to understand that TULP is the Gospel of Gods Grace.

If I get it wrong comment.

Total Depravity - caused the flood
Unconditional election - works of law do not bring salvation (all sorts of conditions under the law)
Limited Atonement - turning from sin under the law, only helps heal the land physically.
Irresistible Grace - evil always resists grace.
Perseverance of saints- God’s perseverance brings the victory.

Now maybe I chose wrong words. Help me see errors I made.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[jasonc]

If I get it wrong comment.

Total Depravity - caused the flood
Unconditional election - works of law do not bring salvation (all sorts of conditions under the law)
Limited Atonement - turning from sin under the law, only helps heal the land physically.
Irresistible Grace - evil always resists grace.
Perseverance of saints- God’s perseverance brings the victory.

Now maybe I chose wrong words. Help me see errors I made.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

Nothing we do is gonna make God love us.

That's unconditional election