He (God) works in us to will and do of His good pleasure.
It is a viewpoint issue. We see through a glass darkly. Why try and make it our work.
God works the conditions.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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Is TULIP biblical?
- Thread starter journeymanisnothing
- Start date
It is a viewpoint issue. We see through a glass darkly. Why try and make it our work.
God works the conditions.
Mississippi redneck
eddif
I am sure brightflame will offer his own comments as he gets to it, but I would like to jump in a bit here.
Adam's fall into sin and death cause mankind to be totally depraved. That is who man is when conceived....alienated from the life of God as Eph2 describes. Man's constant love of and practice of sin caused the judgment of the flood.
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth,
and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
All through the bible it describes mans fallen and depraved condition;
Eccl.8
11 Because sentence against an evil work is not executed speedily, therefore the heart of the sons of men is fully set in them to do evil.
eccl.9:3 This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
We cannot do anything in and of ourselves to be saved. God had planned to redeem a multitude of dead sinners, and bring them savingly to Jesus. Nothing in them caused God to elect them.
God had a perfect reason to elect each one, in His perfect wisdom. Not one more, and not one less person could be saved.
The land has nothing to do with the atonement. it has to do with the Covenant death that Jesus died for the elect as their surety, mediator, and High priest.God saves all those He intends to save, no more, no less.
Evil men, sinners always resist grace. Irresitable grace, is the saving love of God to His elect that is always effectual and is not ultimately resisted. We are born resisting the true God, until he makes us willing in the day of His power.
Yes, God finishes the work in us, by enabling us to obey ,trusting Him and His promises.
If you want sources on it, do not be afraid to ask.
that is more perserverance
it is more of a study revealed truth issue, no short cut.
No pre-condidtions
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
You calling the Gospel of Gods Grace strange.
brightfame52
2024 Supporter
Total Depravity is the result of sin and death . When Adam sinned, man sinned and it brought about death and depravity. Rom 5:12
Jason, how is God loving us unconditional election?
God loves the world, and gave His Son to die for it.
Is the all world the elect?
Will all the world be saved?
JLB
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned—
Romans 5:12
Depravity is not mentioned. You added your word to scripture, as you always seem to do.
Men are born in sin for sure.
But men must choose to believe the Gospel and serve God.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16
The Gospel message of salvation is for whoever believes.
JLB
journeymanisnothing
Member
The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deu.24:16 KJV
whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life because of me will find it.
Mt.10:38-39 NET
the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and chastises every son whom he receives.” Heb.12:6 ESV
Be keenly aware that just as a parent disciplines his child, the LORD your God disciplines you. Deu.8:5 NET
Endure your suffering as discipline; God is treating you as sons. For what son is there that a father does not discipline?
Heb.12:7 NET
But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Heb.12:8 KJV
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered; Heb.5:8 KJV
Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent. Rev.3:9 KJV
Christ_empowered
Member
The debate never ends lol 
Honestly? I see foreknowledge and predestination all over Scripture. I look
around and I see many falling away some persevering. But…by whose power?
Debate.never.ends
Where the rubber meets the road in my corner of the world
doctrine doesn’t change much about church 
️ or church culture. The reformed churches in this area tend to be full of more upper classes people who are on the softer end of conservative or they’re affirming etc full of people who haven’t yet truly repented but need structure community and meaning…
And who aren’t quite ready to go Unitarian.
The Pentecostal church️…ugh. I saw a cop gesturing towards me as I drove by one near me on my way to my parents house 
. Ugh 
they seem to have a wider social class range which is good 
and biblical…
But the reactionary sometimes cruel sort of conservative mindset is…not appealing.
Pentecostal churches here seem to do more for poor people. The more established Presbyterian churches here do good work too but their numbers are dwindling. That’s true nationwide but it’s sad
to me to see it happening here…
Things fall apart. It is what it is…
Honestly? I see foreknowledge and predestination all over Scripture. I look
around and I see many falling away some persevering. But…by whose power?Debate.never.ends
Where the rubber meets the road in my corner of the world
doctrine doesn’t change much about church ️ or church culture. The reformed churches in this area tend to be full of more upper classes people who are on the softer end of conservative or they’re affirming etc full of people who haven’t yet truly repented but need structure community and meaning…And who aren’t quite ready to go Unitarian.
The Pentecostal church
️…ugh. I saw a cop gesturing towards me as I drove by one near me on my way to my parents house . Ugh they seem to have a wider social class range which is good and biblical…But the reactionary sometimes cruel sort of conservative mindset is…not appealing.
Pentecostal churches here seem to do more for poor people. The more established Presbyterian churches here do good work too but their numbers are dwindling. That’s true nationwide but it’s sad
to me to see it happening here…Things fall apart. It is what it is…
journeymanisnothing
Member
Eze.18
journeymanisnothing
Member
Because of his adversaries pride, God decided to save people who humble themselves.The debate never ends lol
Honestly? I see foreknowledge and predestination all over Scripture.
By that foreknowledge, God decided to allow his adversaries time to repent for rebelling against Him, before appearing in His Presence,
you may not look directly at my face, for no one may see me and live.
Exo.33:20 NIV
The Bible shows many stories of exactly the same things. Isn't that funny?I look
And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom concerning all that is done under heaven; this burdensome task God has given to the sons of man, by which they may be exercised. Ecc.1:13 NKJV
That depends on who you think is running the show. I'm confident I know Who's running the show no matter how bad things may seem He's still in Charge.
That’s what Calvinism teaches, not the scriptures.
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:17
God desires for everyone in the world to believe in His Son, and be saved.
JLB
The Father gave Judas Iscariot to the Son.
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled. John 17:12
Judas was given to the Son, and was predestined to reign with Him and the other 11 in the age to come, but became a traitor.
So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. Matthew 19:28
Judas always had a choice to continue following the LORD or not, just like each and everyone else who calls upon His name and are saved.
JLB
All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. John 6:37
No mention of the elect.
Judas was given to Him by the Father.
Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.
2 Timothy 2:10
Paul desired for the elect to also obtain salvation.
The elect refers to the Jews.
JLB
God loves the world and desires for the world to be saved.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. John 3:16-17
Calvinism believes Jn/3:15-16.... That is literally what it says///do you believe it, or do you hate the biblical God so much you will deny His word?
The whole world is not going to be saved
God has never intended to save every person/ Anyone who reads a bible knows this.
Jlb, this indicates you are spiritually in rebellion to God. What do you think the Father gives all these people to the Son for??? Jesus says all that are given will come...salvation is in view. The word elect does not have to be included in every verse does it? What a foolish post you make, all because you resist truth.
not savingly, like Israel as a nation was elected, but not all Israel was of Israel, romans 9
This reveals your dispensational problem. as all saved persons, Jew and Gentile are elect.
1 Corinthians 1:11 kjv
11. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the houseof Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
The body of Christ is Not an individual sports team. A team that gathers together and all do the high five together saying (we are the elect team)
Rah Rah Rah we are of:
Calvin
Luther
Arminius
Enter your group here (xxxxxx)
We are the corporate body of Christ Jesus.
One is a:
Hand
Eye
Ear
etc.
Just because a group has 3 million members on their team, they have all the only answers.
We do Not say:
We are the liver, so we do not need the nasty kidneys. Let’s just surgically remove them from fellowship.
The letters to the churches in Revelation show differences in a congregation may need adjustment. I can’t deny that, but there is order to getting that done. If someone repents forgive them.
Enough redneck rambling
eddif
11. For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the houseof Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
12. Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?
14. I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
15. Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
We all have to look at ourselves and see if we are group related rather than body related.
The body of Christ is Not an individual sports team. A team that gathers together and all do the high five together saying (we are the elect team)
Rah Rah Rah we are of:
Calvin
Luther
Arminius
Enter your group here (xxxxxx)
We are the corporate body of Christ Jesus.
One is a:
Hand
Eye
Ear
etc.
Just because a group has 3 million members on their team, they have all the only answers.
We do Not say:
We are the liver, so we do not need the nasty kidneys. Let’s just surgically remove them from fellowship.
The letters to the churches in Revelation show differences in a congregation may need adjustment. I can’t deny that, but there is order to getting that done. If someone repents forgive them.
Enough redneck rambling
eddif